[ ]   [ ]   [ ]                        [ ]      [ ]   [ ]

Trump - Red_Dragon - Aug 14, 2020 - 6:26pm
 
Democratic Party - R_P - Aug 14, 2020 - 6:24pm
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - Aug 14, 2020 - 4:30pm
 
Gotta Get Your Drink On - Antigone - Aug 14, 2020 - 4:29pm
 
Hell Is ... - oldviolin - Aug 14, 2020 - 3:50pm
 
What Makes You Laugh? - Ohmsen - Aug 14, 2020 - 3:50pm
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - haresfur - Aug 14, 2020 - 3:48pm
 
Tech & Science - Ohmsen - Aug 14, 2020 - 3:31pm
 
YouTube: Music-Videos - Ohmsen - Aug 14, 2020 - 3:15pm
 
Mixtape Culture Club - miamizsun - Aug 14, 2020 - 2:17pm
 
COVID-19 - Ohmsen - Aug 14, 2020 - 12:37pm
 
Those Lovable Policemen - R_P - Aug 14, 2020 - 12:23pm
 
Krautrock - holboe - Aug 14, 2020 - 10:13am
 
Looting & vandalism isn't protest - R_P - Aug 14, 2020 - 9:58am
 
Maarjamaa - oldviolin - Aug 14, 2020 - 9:25am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Aug 14, 2020 - 9:06am
 
Things You Thought Today - ScottFromWyoming - Aug 14, 2020 - 9:03am
 
Name My Band - oldviolin - Aug 14, 2020 - 8:59am
 
Today in History - oldviolin - Aug 14, 2020 - 8:28am
 
Noob and Bluetooth with cache - Grarea - Aug 14, 2020 - 6:16am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - Coaxial - Aug 14, 2020 - 6:15am
 
Joe Biden - sirdroseph - Aug 14, 2020 - 2:58am
 
Trump Lies - R_P - Aug 13, 2020 - 9:21pm
 
Baseball, anyone? - Prodigal_SOB - Aug 13, 2020 - 7:22pm
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - gtufano - Aug 13, 2020 - 3:26pm
 
Strips, cartoons, illustrations - R_P - Aug 13, 2020 - 1:09pm
 
Live Music - Ohmsen - Aug 13, 2020 - 12:55pm
 
HALF A WORLD - Proclivities - Aug 13, 2020 - 11:22am
 
2020 Elections - R_P - Aug 13, 2020 - 10:46am
 
Message To Lucky - ScottFromWyoming - Aug 13, 2020 - 10:24am
 
songs that ROCK! - Ohmsen - Aug 13, 2020 - 9:39am
 
Private messages in a public forum - oldviolin - Aug 13, 2020 - 9:23am
 
Poetry Forum - Ohmsen - Aug 13, 2020 - 8:59am
 
New Music - Ohmsen - Aug 13, 2020 - 8:56am
 
Shall We Dance? - oldviolin - Aug 12, 2020 - 7:39pm
 
Health Care - R_P - Aug 12, 2020 - 6:39pm
 
True Confessions - Antigone - Aug 12, 2020 - 2:29pm
 
TV shows you watch - Ohmsen - Aug 12, 2020 - 2:18pm
 
There is another Jo - miamizsun - Aug 12, 2020 - 1:34pm
 
what the hell, miamizsun? - miamizsun - Aug 12, 2020 - 1:09pm
 
Amazon Echo/Alexa stream not working - jarro - Aug 12, 2020 - 5:29am
 
Counting with Pictures - ScottN - Aug 11, 2020 - 8:30pm
 
Republican Party - Red_Dragon - Aug 11, 2020 - 4:23pm
 
Better Together - Steely_D - Aug 11, 2020 - 4:14pm
 
Jerry Garcia 10 years dead on Aug 9. - Ohmsen - Aug 11, 2020 - 12:13pm
 
Talk Behind Their Backs Forum - oldviolin - Aug 11, 2020 - 10:36am
 
Climate Change - Ohmsen - Aug 11, 2020 - 9:57am
 
Positive Thoughts and Prayer Requests - Ohmsen - Aug 11, 2020 - 9:49am
 
What Did You See Today? - Coaxial - Aug 11, 2020 - 8:17am
 
Outstanding Covers - Coaxial - Aug 11, 2020 - 7:36am
 
• • • BRING OUT YOUR DEAD • • •  - oldviolin - Aug 11, 2020 - 6:24am
 
Breaking News - haresfur - Aug 10, 2020 - 7:50pm
 
Hot Dog... it's Summer! - miamizsun - Aug 10, 2020 - 12:40pm
 
Country Up The Bumpkin - Ohmsen - Aug 10, 2020 - 12:20pm
 
Play the Blues - oldviolin - Aug 10, 2020 - 10:24am
 
Lebanon - Ohmsen - Aug 10, 2020 - 1:59am
 
Play RP My Favorites stream via HEOS services - morefigs - Aug 9, 2020 - 6:21pm
 
• • •  What's For Dinner ? • • •  - Red_Dragon - Aug 9, 2020 - 5:20pm
 
Stuff I've Said Out Loud - Antigone - Aug 9, 2020 - 2:40pm
 
Amazing animals! - R_P - Aug 9, 2020 - 12:11pm
 
260,000 Posts in one thread? - oldviolin - Aug 9, 2020 - 9:32am
 
Automotive Lust - islander - Aug 9, 2020 - 9:09am
 
Florida - miamizsun - Aug 9, 2020 - 8:06am
 
Lyrics That Remind You of Someone - oldviolin - Aug 9, 2020 - 7:22am
 
Gardeners Corner - BlueHeronDruid - Aug 9, 2020 - 1:17am
 
Crazy conspiracy theories - R_P - Aug 8, 2020 - 4:40pm
 
Our tolerance for opposing views - R_P - Aug 8, 2020 - 12:35pm
 
Amazon Products (May Contain Spam) - Red_Dragon - Aug 8, 2020 - 12:09pm
 
Race in America - R_P - Aug 8, 2020 - 11:00am
 
Two questions. That's it. I promise. - oldviolin - Aug 7, 2020 - 5:22pm
 
HELP! Sound Cutting out problem - michael16 - Aug 7, 2020 - 2:14pm
 
A little smooth jazz never hurt anyone - rhahl - Aug 7, 2020 - 1:51pm
 
It seemed like a good idea at the time - Proclivities - Aug 7, 2020 - 11:54am
 
What did you have for lunch? - miamizsun - Aug 7, 2020 - 8:55am
 
American Justice - miamizsun - Aug 7, 2020 - 8:40am
 
Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » illegal immigrants Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 101, 102, 103  Next
Post to this Topic
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jan 23, 2019 - 10:03pm

 kurtster wrote:
Nope, any admission of good news for Trump is out of bounds.  To show your point (the bad news) would require showing the good news. (...)
 
You don't see the contradiction there, right?

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 23, 2019 - 9:58pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
With all this in mind, I can see why this polling result was deliberately buried, deep.

Then I guess the same conspiratorial thinking applies to "Additionally, just 27 percent of Latinos who were polled said they would definitely vote for Trump in 2020, while 58 percent said they would not."

 
Nope, any admission of good news for Trump is out of bounds.  To show your point (the bad news) would require showing the good news.  Best to just bury the whole thing and hope no one looks past the cover story, which is what usually happens.  Few look past the headlines and that is what is counted on when publishing these things.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jan 23, 2019 - 9:52pm

 kurtster wrote:
With all this in mind, I can see why this polling result was deliberately buried, deep.

Then I guess the same conspiratorial thinking applies to "Additionally, just 27 percent of Latinos who were polled said they would definitely vote for Trump in 2020, while 58 percent said they would not."
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 23, 2019 - 9:39pm

 kcar wrote:
PBS Newshour answers some of your questions. The piece also has an embedded 11-minute interview with the Director of the Marist Institute for Public Opinion. 

Fact-checking Trump’s claim that he has a 50-percent approval rating among Latinos



What the poll actually says

As part of the survey, 1,023 people were asked: “Do you approve or disapprove of the job Donald Trump is doing as president?” President Trump was correct in that saying that 50 percent of the Latinos who were questioned in the survey said they approved of his work as president.

But only 153 Latino Americans were interviewed for the poll. The small sample size of Latino respondents had a “wide” margin of error of 9.9 percentage points, Carvalho said. That means the 50 percent approval rating among Latinos that Trump cited could range from 40 percent to 60 percent.

A statistically significant poll of Latino Americans would have a much larger sample size, a lower margin of error and would be conducted in English or Spanish. The interviews in the most recent PBS NewsHour/NPR/Marist poll were conducted only in English.
...
Trump’s tweet also asserts that the last polling survey pointed to a 19 percent increase among Latino support. However, according to a January 2018 PBS NewsHour/NPR/Marist poll, 27 percent of Latino adults approved of the job Trump was doing as president. A year later, the 50 percent of Latino approval would amount to a 23 percent increase, not 19 percent. However, it’s not immediately clear which past poll the president was referencing.

Trump’s tweet on the poll also didn’t mention that 46 percent of Latinos disapproved of his performance as president. Another four percent said they were unsure.

Additionally, just 27 percent of Latinos who were polled said they would definitely vote for Trump in 2020, while 58 percent said they would not.

In 2016, Trump received 20 percent of the Latino vote, according to exit polls.

Marist releases information on various subgroups interviewed in the poll to be transparent about its polling methods. NPR and the NewsHour didn’t focus on the subgroup in its coverage of the latest poll, partly because of the wide error margin and small sample size.

When dealing with groups within a larger poll, it’s important “to be statistically cautious” because the results are estimates, Carvalho said.

...


And in surveys focused on Latinos’ views of Trump and his job performance, the president’s approval rating is consistently underwater. According to a Pew Research Center’s survey from October, only 22 perfect of Latinos said they approved of Trump’s job as president, while 69 percent said they disapproved.

Pew has previously explained how language barriers and cultural differences could affect Latinos’ responses in surveys.

 
Thank you for your interest and diligence.

Caution, what follows is without any links or citations.  It's just my own analysis and opinion, which I know troubles you.
You've been warned in advance.  Proceed at your own risk.

Here is the take away I got from the article I posted earlier.

First it is an NPR poll.  That makes it worthy and widely respected.  The troubling part is that they omitted this Trump positive information in their cover story for the poll, which I read and was linked to in my article, which you did find anyway.

Second is that even if only a ten point increase, this is still a significant number, worthy of note and mention.  My understanding is that the 19 point increase referred to is from the previous month's poll from December 2018 from the same group.  All things being equal, regardless of sample size, it is an increase using the same methodology.  So the 19 point increase would be valid as the same size group and margin of error is consistent over a month to month measurement.  How this number trends in the coming months will be very important to follow.  We'll also have some other polling coming through to see if this upward trend of approval amongst "Latinos" is real.

If this is a new trend, it began concurrently when the border crisis / government shutdown began.  The two are surely linked imo.  If this trend holds, it is most troubling for the long term thinking of the democratic party which has invested so much in courting the Hispanic voters and in which the future of the party depends on more than any other ethnic group in the USA.  As mentioned below, this number does not jive with the 2016 election stats.  Of course not.  To think that a particular group is monolithic in its belief systems is taking them for granted in the kindest terms.  I do believe that the democratic party takes the Hispanic vote for granted just as they take the Black vote for granted.  By watching various polls the past year or so, I've seen a similar trend of an increase in their approval of Trump as well.  Around a 10 point increase on average.  A 10 point shift towards Trump could be enough to swing the vote to him in some states with other groups remaining unchanged, allowing him an electoral college victory in that state.

Latinos or Hispanics are the ones most affected by this unbridled influx of largely unskilled Hispanics from other countries.  I really have a hard time understanding how any immigrant who came through our system and entered legally would be for this open border line jumping which the democrats have fought so hard to maintain.  This swing in Trump's approval rating amongst Latinos is way overdue imo.  Regardless of Trump's motives or intent, his shutting down of the government over the insistence of halting this mass migration is something that is good for them and they are now giving him credit.  Unemployment amongst Hispanics is at historic lows as well with Blacks for that matter.  Maybe that has something to do with it, but that has been the case for the past year or so, making it hard to attribute unemployment numbers for the recent and dramatic rise in his approval rating with this particular group.

With all this in mind, I can see why this polling result was deliberately buried, deep.  

Trump needs to stand firm on this.  It is one of the two primary reasons he was elected.



kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jan 23, 2019 - 12:16pm

PBS Newshour answers some of your questions. The piece also has an embedded 11-minute interview with the Director of the Marist Institute for Public Opinion. 



Fact-checking Trump’s claim that he has a 50-percent approval rating among Latinos



What the poll actually says

As part of the survey, 1,023 people were asked: “Do you approve or disapprove of the job Donald Trump is doing as president?” President Trump was correct in that saying that 50 percent of the Latinos who were questioned in the survey said they approved of his work as president.

But only 153 Latino Americans were interviewed for the poll. The small sample size of Latino respondents had a “wide” margin of error of 9.9 percentage points, Carvalho said. That means the 50 percent approval rating among Latinos that Trump cited could range from 40 percent to 60 percent.

A statistically significant poll of Latino Americans would have a much larger sample size, a lower margin of error and would be conducted in English or Spanish. The interviews in the most recent PBS NewsHour/NPR/Marist poll were conducted only in English.


...


Trump’s tweet also asserts that the last polling survey pointed to a 19 percent increase among Latino support. However, according to a January 2018 PBS NewsHour/NPR/Marist poll, 27 percent of Latino adults approved of the job Trump was doing as president. A year later, the 50 percent of Latino approval would amount to a 23 percent increase, not 19 percent. However, it’s not immediately clear which past poll the president was referencing.

Trump’s tweet on the poll also didn’t mention that 46 percent of Latinos disapproved of his performance as president. Another four percent said they were unsure.

Additionally, just 27 percent of Latinos who were polled said they would definitely vote for Trump in 2020, while 58 percent said they would not.

In 2016, Trump received 20 percent of the Latino vote, according to exit polls.

Marist releases information on various subgroups interviewed in the poll to be transparent about its polling methods. NPR and the NewsHour didn’t focus on the subgroup in its coverage of the latest poll, partly because of the wide error margin and small sample size.

When dealing with groups within a larger poll, it’s important “to be statistically cautious” because the results are estimates, Carvalho said.



...




And in surveys focused on Latinos’ views of Trump and his job performance, the president’s approval rating is consistently underwater. According to a Pew Research Center’s survey from October, only 22 perfect of Latinos said they approved of Trump’s job as president, while 69 percent said they disapproved.

Pew has previously explained how language barriers and cultural differences could affect Latinos’ responses in surveys.


R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jan 23, 2019 - 11:17am

The $5.7 Billion Hole in Shutdown Coverage
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 22, 2019 - 12:58pm

black321 wrote:
 Wrong?  I think  what you mean the sample doesn't represent the actual population, or as Proclivities said, the sample was too small. Could be, but that seems just as speculative.


Could also be bad methodology or questions. Did they have bilingual pollsters? How did they pick their participants? Did the pollsters come across as ICE agents trolling for victims?
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 22, 2019 - 11:18am



 Lazy8 wrote:
black321 wrote:
RE. the latino 50% approval rating...perhaps it has something to do with the fact that they are more likely to live in the neighborhoods where the worst elements of this issue occurs, where the MS13 or whatever other bad element eventually locates.   Its an immediate concern and not some distant one read in the papers.  

Or maybe it's just wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

Certainly doesn't reflect voting in the last election.

 Wrong?  I think  what you mean the sample doesn't represent the actual population, or as Proclivities said, the sample was too small. Could be, but that seems just as speculative.


Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 22, 2019 - 11:09am



 Lazy8 wrote:
black321 wrote:
RE. the latino 50% approval rating...perhaps it has something to do with the fact that they are more likely to live in the neighborhoods where the worst elements of this issue occurs, where the MS13 or whatever other bad element eventually locates.   Its an immediate concern and not some distant one read in the papers.  

Or maybe it's just wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

Certainly doesn't reflect voting in the last election.
 
The sample size was surprisingly small (150? - really?), but still, they should have posted the results.
*edit - 58% of Latinos said they would "definitely vote against Trump in 2020".

Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 22, 2019 - 10:46am

black321 wrote:
RE. the latino 50% approval rating...perhaps it has something to do with the fact that they are more likely to live in the neighborhoods where the worst elements of this issue occurs, where the MS13 or whatever other bad element eventually locates.   Its an immediate concern and not some distant one read in the papers.  

Or maybe it's just wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

Certainly doesn't reflect voting in the last election.
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 22, 2019 - 10:01am

 black321 wrote:
RE. the latino 50% approval rating...perhaps it has something to do with the fact that they are more likely to live in the neighborhoods where the worst elements of this issue occurs, where the MS13 or whatever other bad element eventually locates.   Its an immediate concern and not some distant one read in the papers.  

 
There's is your main point right there, I have heard from many people personally that actually live on the borders and it is a totally different situation than those in Minnesota sitting in an ivory tower or better yet a gated community. {#Wink}
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 22, 2019 - 9:09am

RE. the latino 50% approval rating...perhaps it has something to do with the fact that they are more likely to live in the neighborhoods where the worst elements of this issue occurs, where the MS13 or whatever other bad element eventually locates.   Its an immediate concern and not some distant one read in the papers.  
ColdMiser

ColdMiser Avatar

Location: On the Trail
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 22, 2019 - 3:37am



 R_P wrote:

An estimate? Count along in the video below:

 
Billions Served, its on every McDonalds around the world.

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jan 22, 2019 - 12:04am

 kurtster wrote:
We will not know if we do not try.  It is as simple as that, imo.
 
A lot is already known, because history. So feigning ignorance about this largely symbolic solution is nonsense (like firing off a bunch of cruise missiles). Optics. Looks good, makes little difference.

What comes to mind are the arguments against gun control, esp. bad hombres (which Trump likes to focus on, because fear) will have no problem with walls. When Trump needs to reiterate again and again that walls are effective - while recognizing his pathological habit of lying - then they probably aren't.
(...) If walls did not work in the past and today only work to divert, not prevent, migrant flows—while simultaneously having a grave human cost—why have so many gone up in the past 30 years? They are effective as symbols that demonstrate that politicians are doing something to address the perceived threats brought by unauthorized movement. These perceived threats can be economic in the form of smugglers or workers taking revenue and jobs from citizens. They can be cultural in the sense that migrants bring different traditions, languages, and ways of life that might not match with the local culture.

While these underlying issues are complex and very rarely solved by whether or not a border is secured, “build a wall” is an evocative slogan and the barrier itself is a powerful visual symbol of action. Consequently, despite the expense and questionable effectiveness, it seems likely that in the short term there will be many more walls going up around the world. What remains to be seen, however, is how long they will stay up.
Read all of it. It's interesting. If you're looking for effective, instead of symbolic, it's gonna cost you. A lot. Bigly. As in big deficit bigly (not the tiny 5-6B$ which also is symbolic).

One number talks of 117B$ for border enforcement (which includes a lot of stuff) in the first decade of this century, while illegal immigration continued unabated. Current annual budgets are likely higher and growing.

And the ROI? Questionable. Should remind you of some MIC spending...

An estimate? Count along in the video below:

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 21, 2019 - 11:00pm

 R_P wrote:

Neither label seems to apply.

Mass murder generally is in a single event. And a serial killer involves abnormal psychology.

This looks like burglarizing/killing older people repeatedly.

Bad enough in itself.

Question is: would a wall have stopped him? How did he get in?

 
We will not know if we do not try.  It is as simple as that, imo.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jan 21, 2019 - 9:25pm

 kurtster wrote:
I do know from prior discussions that the standard for mass murder is when someone kills 4 or more people, it is then considered mass murder.  A serial killer at the very least.

It was stated here in this thread earlier that dealing with mass murder was more important than just ordinary garden variety homicides by illegal immigrants. Now we have a mass murder by a suspected illegal immigrant to deal with.

Neither label seems to apply.

Mass murder generally is in a single event. And a serial killer involves abnormal psychology.

This looks like burglarizing/killing older people repeatedly.

Bad enough in itself.

Question is: would a wall have stopped him? How did he get in?
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 21, 2019 - 9:08pm

Oh noes !!  Now we have a suspected illegal immigrant who is a mass murderer.  Now what ?

I do know from prior discussions that the standard for mass murder is when someone kills 4 or more people, it is then considered mass murder.  A serial killer at the very least.

It was stated here in this thread earlier that dealing with mass murder was more important than just ordinary garden variety homicides by illegal immigrants.  Now we have a mass murder by a suspected illegal immigrant to deal with.

Sheriffs confident man arrested in Carson City responsible for slayings in Reno, Gardnerville
.
To be fair, he is still innocent until proven guilty.  Time will tell.


kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jan 20, 2019 - 9:17am



 kurtster wrote:
PBS, NPR Skip Their Own Poll Finding of 50% Latino Approval for Trump

.
This kind of support may prolong the shutdown and cost democrats the very voters they claim to be the protectors of.


 

That level of support is very puzzling to me. PJ Gladnick, the author of the article you pointed to, notes that the Latino vote has swung up and down for Trump a lot. Gladnick quotes another writer (Caleb Howe at Mediaite) who stated that on November 1, Trump's approval rating was at 36%. 

Gladnick and Howe's percentage numbers  as presented in Gladnick's piece don't seem to match up, though. For instance, Howe states that the 50% approval rating from the PBS/NPR/Marist poll was a 19% swing...but compared to when? Howe doesn't say. 

Perhaps most telling: Gladnick writes "The pollsters would probably say the sample of Latinos (about 150 in December) is too small, and the margin of error too large."  


That's a pretty damn small sample. Gladnick notes that NPR and PBS were happy to talk about approval rating numbers of other groups in the poll but ignored Latino numbers.  It'd be interesting to find out whether Latinos' approval of Trump has actually risen dramatically over the last few months and if so, why. 

However, Gladnick committed his own sin of omission by failing to mention these numbers among Latinos polled. 

http://maristpoll.marist.edu/w...



National Registered Voters:

Thinking about the 2020 election, do you definitely plan to vote for Donald Trump for reelection as president or do you definitely plan to vote against him?


Latinos:  27%      Definitely vote for  President Trump
                    58%      Definitely vote against him
                     15%      Unsure
                    




FYI—from this NPR piece on the poll: 





The survey of 1,023 adults was conducted from Jan. 10 to Jan. 13 by The Marist Poll for NPR and the PBS NewsHour. Results for all Americans have a margin of error of +/- 3.8 percentage points. There were 324 Republicans or Republican-leaning independents surveyed. Where they are referenced, there is a margin of error of +/- 6.8 percentage points. There were 417 Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents surveyed. Where they are referenced, there is a margin of error of +/- 6 percentage points.
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 20, 2019 - 4:57am



 kurtster wrote:
PBS, NPR Skip Their Own Poll Finding of 50% Latino Approval for Trump

.
This kind of support may prolong the shutdown and cost democrats the very voters they claim to be the protectors of.


 
Latinos also tended to vote against marriage equality in California. *shrug*

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 19, 2019 - 9:54pm

PBS, NPR Skip Their Own Poll Finding of 50% Latino Approval for Trump

.
This kind of support may prolong the shutdown and cost democrats the very voters they claim to be the protectors of.


Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 101, 102, 103  Next