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Index » Regional/Local » Africa/Middle East » Palestine Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
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sirdroseph

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Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 25, 2014 - 9:26am

 cc_rider wrote:
I wish aliens would invade Earth and (try to) enslave us all. I don't see any other way to make humans realize we're all in this together.

 

We all may be in this together, but we are all not in this equally.  Ergo; no justice, no peace is met with more killing.
kurtster

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Posted: Jul 25, 2014 - 9:26am

 RichardPrins wrote:

I am pretty sure that under such circumstances some people would still volunteer to help out (in order to try to get preferential treatment, i.e. better him than me)... {#Mrgreen}

 
Yeah, but once the fix is in, they're the first to get eaten.  Nobody trusts a sell out ...
R_P

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Posted: Jul 25, 2014 - 9:21am

 cc_rider wrote:
I wish aliens would invade Earth and (try to) enslave us all. I don't see any other way to make humans realize we're all in this together.
 
I am pretty sure that under such circumstances some people would still volunteer to help out (in order to try to get preferential treatment, i.e. better him than me)... {#Mrgreen}
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jul 25, 2014 - 9:17am

 cc_rider wrote:
I wish aliens would invade Earth and (try to) enslave us all. I don't see any other way to make humans realize we're all in this together.

 
Do you really think that would work? Corporations would be cutting deals with them - untapped markets you know.
cc_rider

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Posted: Jul 25, 2014 - 9:10am

I wish aliens would invade Earth and (try to) enslave us all. I don't see any other way to make humans realize we're all in this together.
R_P

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Posted: Jul 25, 2014 - 8:45am

West Bank rage at Gaza bloodshed as protests erupt over UN school attack
Palestinian Authority calls for 'day of rage' after women and children are killed by Israeli shelling while seeking shelter

The violence of the conflict in Gaza spread to the West Bank on Thursday with at least two Palestinians killed and scores wounded in one of the biggest clashes seen for several years.

Further protests in the West Bank and East Jerusalem are expected following noon prayers on Friday, the last Friday of Ramadan, after the Palestinian Authority called for a “day of rage” over the bloodshed in Gaza.

Thousands of Palestinians took part in a demonstration after more than 15 women, children and United Nations staff were killed and around 200 injured when a UN shelter for those fleeing the Israeli bombing was hit.

The Israel Defence Forces insisted it had given the occupants of the shelter time to leave before shelling the area. But the UN flatly contradicted that, saying it had made repeated attempts to negotiate a window during which people could safely leave the area but none was granted. It said it had given the IDF precise co-ordinates of the location of the school.

Meanwhile reports emerged that the US secretary of state, John Kerry, had presented both sides with a new proposal for a cessation of violence. It centred around a week-long temporary ceasefire with Israeli troops allowed to stay in Gaza to locate and destroy tunnels; and simultaneous negotiations for a permanent deal, with guarantees by the US, EU and UN that the primary concerns of each side would be addressed.

Kerry was said to be awaiting a response from Israel and Hamas before leaving Cairo to return to Washington later on Friday. Israel's security cabinet was due to meet later on Friday to discuss the plan. It will also discuss the option of expanding its eight-day-old ground operation in Gaza.

Hamas's leader-in-exile, Khaled Mishal, said a truce must include a guaranteed end to Israel's eight-year blockade of the Gaza Strip. "We want a ceasefire as soon as possible, that's parallel with the lifting of the siege of Gaza," he told the BBC.

The school in Beit Hanoun in the north of Gaza was one of the grimmest incidents of the conflict, now in its 18th day and in which more than 800 Palestinians – mostly civilians – have been killed. Thirty-four Israelis and one Thai worker have died. (...)


R_P

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Posted: Jul 24, 2014 - 7:56pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:
Frankly, I don't care who's killing who. The relevant issue is that human beings are being killed by other human beings. Stop it. Just fucking stop it.
 
Killing is merely a symptom.
(T)here is a habit of mind which is now so widespread that it affects our thinking on nearly every subject, but which has not yet been given a name. As the nearest existing equivalent I have chosen the word ‘nationalism’, but it will be seen in a moment that I am not using it in quite the ordinary sense, if only because the emotion I am speaking about does not always attach itself to what is called a nation — that is, a single race or a geographical area. It can attach itself to a church or a class, or it may work in a merely negative sense, against something or other and without the need for any positive object of loyalty.

By ‘nationalism’ I mean first of all the habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects and that whole blocks of millions or tens of millions of people can be confidently labelled ‘good’ or ‘bad’(1). But secondly — and this is much more important — I mean the habit of identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it beyond good and evil and recognising no other duty than that of advancing its interests. Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By ‘patriotism’ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality. (...)

Red_Dragon

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Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Jul 24, 2014 - 6:43pm

Frankly, I don't care who's killing who. The relevant issue is that human beings are being killed by other human beings. Stop it. Just fucking stop it.

Until we understand that as a species, we are doomed.

 
R_P

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Posted: Jul 24, 2014 - 6:23pm


R_P

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Posted: Jul 24, 2014 - 9:40am

The Dangerous Logic Used to Justify Killing Civilians
A supporter of Israel's campaign in Gaza evades a longstanding taboo, using logic uncomfortably close to what's employed by Palestinian and Al Qaeda terrorists.
Conor Friedersdorf
Reuters

After the September 11 terrorist attacks, Osama bin Laden argued that Al Qaeda was perfectly justified in killing all those people inside the World Trade Center because they weren't really civilians–they were complicit in U.S. might and misdeeds. Didn't their taxes fund America's CIA assassinations and war planes? As every American understood perfectly well at the time, the attack that day would not have been justified even if all office workers in the Twin Towers had voted for a president and supported a military that perpetrated grave sins in the Middle East. Or even, indeed, if they were all subletting spare bedrooms to U.S. soldiers.

Killing civilians is wrong, no matter how often those who do it insist that the humans they killed weren't really innocent. Everyone understands this truth when the civilians being killed are one's countrymen or allies–but forget it quickly when the civilians are citizens of a country one is fighting or rooting against in war, even though the civilizational taboo against killing civilians becomes no less important.

The latest to succumb to this seductive illogic, to insist that slain civilians weren't really civilians, is New York University's Thane Rosenbaum, who writes in the Wall Street Journal:

Gazans sheltered terrorists and their weapons in their homes, right beside ottoman sofas and dirty diapers. When Israel warned them of impending attacks, the inhabitants defiantly refused to leave. On some basic level, you forfeit your right to be called civilians when you freely elect members of a terrorist organization as statesmen, invite them to dinner with blood on their hands and allow them to set up shop in your living room as their base of operations. At that point you begin to look a lot more like conscripted soldiers than innocent civilians. And you have wittingly made yourself targets.

For purposes of this article, let's set aside all the adults killed in Gaza, just for the sake of argument. The dead Palestinian children are evidence enough that "real civilians" are being slaughtered. In the above passage, the author focuses on the dirty diapers rather than the baby that produced them. Elsewhere, he acknowledges the revolting number of kids killed in this conflict, and then adds, as if it's concession enough, "Surely there are civilians who have been killed in this conflict who have taken every step to distance themselves from this fast-moving war zone, and children whose parents are not card-carrying Hamas loyalists. These are the true innocents of Gaza." In fact, even a toddler whose father is a card-carrying Hamas loyalist is an innocent, by virtue of being a young child!

It is a moral failure not to acknowledge at least that. And the failure is worth dwelling on because wide embrace of Rosenbaum's logic would be a setback for a world where civilians have legal protection in war, however often it is violated. As Daniel Larison explains:

Rosenbaum’s argument is extremely similar to the justifications that terrorist groups use when they target civilians in their own attacks. It is based on the false assumption that there are no real innocents or bystanders in a given country because of their previous political support for a government and its policies, which supposedly makes it permissible to strike non-military targets. It is very important to reject this logic no matter where it comes from or whose cause in a conflict it is being used to advance, because this is the logic that has been used to justify countless atrocities down through the years.

Just so.

No matter one's position on Israel, Palestine, or the current conflict, the fact that innocent civilians exist on both sides, that they ought to be protected from death and dismemberment, and that they're presently dying in large numbers ought not be denied.

Lest there be any confusion about what sorts of attacks I am condemning, consider any bygone instance of a Palestinian suicide bomber blowing up a restaurant or discotheque–or the lobbing rockets into residential neighborhoods inside Israel–as well as Israeli attacks like one that the New York Times just reported on:

When the strike leveled a four-story house in the southern Gaza Strip the night before, it also killed 25 members of four family households—including 19 children—gathered to break the daily Ramadan fast together. Relatives said it also killed a guest of the family, identified by an Israeli human rights group as a member of the Hamas military wing, ostensibly Israel’s target. The attack was the latest in a series of Israeli strikes that have killed families in their homes, during an offensive that Israel says is meant to stop militant rocket fire that targets its civilians and destroy Hamas’s tunnel network. The Palestinian deaths—75 percent of them civilians, according to a United Nations count—have prompted a wave of international outrage, and are raising questions about Israel’s stated dedication to protecting civilians.

Killing 19 children in order to get one Hamas fighter is horrific.

Says Larison, alluding to such attacks:

It may please Hamas to make use of these victims’ deaths for their own purposes, but that doesn’t absolve the Israeli government of its responsibility for causing those deaths. If Hamas benefits politically from these civilian deaths, and it seems likely that they do, it would seem obvious that Israel should not want to cause any more, and yet at each step over the last few weeks Israel’s government has responded with tactics that are guaranteed to continue killing many more non-combatants for as long as this operation continues.

Israel's experience as a terrorist target suggests that watching foreigners kill children in one's midst does not break a people's desire to fight—it strengthens it. The spike in civilian deaths we're witnessing appears to be a moral and strategic failure.
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.
Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.

~ Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil, Aphorism 146 (1886)
R_P

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Posted: Jul 24, 2014 - 12:51am

Israel’s U.S.-Made Military Might Overwhelms Palestinians
Analysis by Thalif Deen
The two-week long conflict has claimed the lives of more than 620 Palestinians, mostly civilians, including over 230 women and children, and over 3,700 wounded, while the Israeli death toll is 27 soldiers and two civilians. Credit: Syeda Amina Trust Charity/cc by 2.0The two-week long conflict has claimed the lives of more than 620 Palestinians, mostly civilians, including over 230 women and children, and over 3,700 wounded, while the Israeli death toll is 27 soldiers and two civilians. Credit: Syeda Amina Trust Charity/cc by 2.0

UNITED NATIONS, Jul 23 2014 (IPS) - The overwhelming Israeli firepower unleashed on the Palestinian militant group Hamas in the ongoing battle in Gaza is perhaps reminiscent of the Algerian war of independence (1954-1962) when France, the colonial power, used its vastly superior military strength to strike back at the insurgents with brutal ferocity.

While France was accused of using its air force to napalm civilians in the countryside, the Algerians were accused of using handmade bombs hidden in women’s handbags and left surreptitiously in cafes, restaurants and public places frequented by the French.

"Unless you have been on the street facing Israeli troops in Gaza, or sleeping on the floor under an Israeli aerial assault, as I have several times while delivering aid in 1989, 2000, and 2009, it's impossible to imagine the total disproportion of power in this conflict." — Dr. James E. Jennings

In one of the memorable scenes in the 1967 cinematic classic “The Battle of Algiers,” a handcuffed leader of the National Liberation Front (NLF), Ben M’Hidi, is brought before a group of highly-partisan French journalists for interrogation.

One of the journalists asks M’Hidi: “Don’t you think it is a bit cowardly to use women’s handbags and baskets to carry explosive devices that kill so many innocent people?”

The Algerian insurgent shoots back with equal bluntness: “And doesn’t it seem to you even more cowardly to drop napalm bombs on unarmed villages, so that there are a thousand times more innocent victims?”

Then he delivers the devastating punchline: “Of course, if we had your fighter planes, it would be a lot easier for us. Give us your bombers, and you can have our handbags and baskets.”

In the current conflict in Gaza, a role reversal would see Hamas armed with fighter planes, air-to-surface missiles and battle tanks, while the Israelis would be hitting back only with homemade rockets.

But in reality what is taking place in Gaza is a totally outmatched and outranked Hamas fighting a country with one of the world’s most formidable and sophisticated military machines, whose state-of-the-art equipment is provided gratis – under so-called “Foreign Military Financing (FMF)” – by the United States.

According to the latest figures, the two-week long conflict has claimed the lives of more than 620 Palestinians, mostly civilians, including over 230 women and children, and over 3,700 wounded, while the Israeli death toll is 27 soldiers and two civilians.

Speaking of the military imbalance, Dr. James E. Jennings, president of Conscience International and executive director of U.S. Academics for Peace, told IPS, “Unless you have been on the street facing Israeli troops in Gaza, or sleeping on the floor under an Israeli aerial assault, as I have several times while delivering aid in 1989, 2000, and 2009, it’s impossible to imagine the total disproportion of power in this conflict.

“I saw boys who were merely running away shot in the back by Israeli soldiers with Uzi and arrayed in body armour, and in 2009 and 2012 at Rafah witnessed Israel’s technological superiority in coordinating sophisticated computers, drones, and F-15s with devastating effect,” he said.

The repeated missile strikes ostensibly targeted youths scrambling through tunnels like rats to bring food and medicine to the trapped population, but often hit helpless civilians fleeing the bombing as well, said Jennings.

He also pointed out that in terms of the imbalance in the number of casualties in this so-called “war”, statistics speak for themselves. However, numbers on a page do not do justice to the up-close reality.

“In my work I have visited wounded women and children in hospitals in Rafah and Gaza City and helped carry out the bodies of the dead for burial,” Jennings said.

When military capabilities are that asymmetrical, he said, shooting fish in a barrel is the best analogy.

As for the largely homemade Qassam rockets launched by Hamas, their ineffectiveness is apparent in the statistical results: over 2,000 launched, with only two unlucky civilians killed on the Israeli side.

“That is far less than the eight Americans killed accidentally last year by celebratory rockets on the 4th of July,” Jennings noted.

The billions of dollars in sophisticated U.S. weapons purchased by Israel are under non-repayable FMF grants, according to defence analysts.

Israel is currently the recipient of a 10-year, 30-billion-dollar U.S. military aid package, 2009 through 2018.

And according to the Congressional Research Service (CRS), Israel is also the largest single recipient of FMF, and by 2015, these grants will account for about 55 percent of all U.S. disbursements worldwide, and represent about 23-25 percent of the annual Israeli military budget.

Nicole Auger, a military analyst who covers the Middle East and Africa at Forecast International, a leader in defence market intelligence and industry forecasting, told IPS Israel imports practically all its weapons from the U.S. – and this largely consists of sophisticated equipment it does not produce domestically, or equipment it finds more expedient to buy with U.S. assistance funding.

She said despite a proposed shift in emphasis from air and naval power to ground strength, Israel continues to place priority on maintaining air superiority over all its regional neighbours.

The emphasis on air supremacy and strike capability has resulted in an additional order for F-15I fighters to serve as the lead fighter until the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is brought into service with the Israeli Air Force (IAF), she said.

Along with its 25 long-range strike F-15Is (Ra’ams), the IAF also has 102 multirole combat F-16Is (Soufas) purchased under the Peace Marble V programme in 1999 (50 platforms) and 2001 (option for a further 52 planes), Auger said.

The F-15I and F-16I jets, some of which are being used for aerial bombings of Gaza, are customised versions of the American fighters tailored to specific Israeli needs.

Israel’s military arsenal also includes scores of attack helicopters.

Auger said the Sikorsky CH-53 heavy-lift helicopter fleet was just upgraded with the IAI Elta Systems EL/M-2160 flight guard protection system, which detects incoming missiles with radar and then activates diversionary countermeasures.

Israel has also completed a major upgrade to its fleet of Bell AH-1E/F/G/S Cobra attack helicopters and its Boeing AH-64A Apache helicopters has been converted to AH-64D Longbow standards.

The middle layer of defence is provided by the upgraded Patriot PAC 2 anti-missile system (PAC 3) and the air force is also armed with Paveway laser-guided bombs, BLU-109 penetration bombs, Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM) kits, and GBU-28 bunker busters.

In terms of vehicles, she said, Israel manufactures the majority of its own.

Jennings told IPS two facts are largely missing in the standard media portrayal of the Israel-Gaza “war:” the right of self-defence, so stoutly defended by Israelis and their allies in Washington, is never mentioned about the period in 1948 when hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were forced from their homes and pushed off their land to be enclosed in the world’s largest prison camp that is Gaza.

Secondly, the world has stood by silently while Israel, with complicity by the U.S. and Egypt, has literally choked the life out of the 1.7 million people in Gaza by a viciously effective cordon sanitaire, an almost total embargo on goods and services, greatly impacting the availability of food and medicine.

“These are war crimes, stark and ongoing violations of international humanitarian law perpetuated over the last seven years while the world has continued to turn away,” Jennings said.

“The indelible stain of that shameful neglect will not be erased for centuries, yet many people in the West continue to wonder at all the outrage in the Middle East,” he added.


R_P

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Posted: Jul 23, 2014 - 11:42pm


R_P

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Posted: Jul 23, 2014 - 1:33pm

'Witch Hunt': Fired MSNBC Contributor Speaks Out on Suppression of Israel-Palestine Debate
As Gaza body toll mounts, NBC executives crack down on criticism of Israel.
Max Blumenthal
MSNBC contributor Rula Jebreal’s on-air protest of the network’s slanted coverage of Israel’s ongoing assault on the Gaza Strip has brought media suppression of the Israel-Palestine debate into sharp focus. Punished for her act of dissent with the cancellation of all future appearances and the termination of her contract, Jebreal spoke to me about what prompted her to speak out and why MSNBC was presenting such a distorted view of the crisis.

“I couldn’t stay silent after seeing the amount of airtime given to Israeli politicians versus Palestinians,” Jebreal told me. “They say we are balanced but their idea of balance is 90 percent Israeli guests and 10 percent Palestinians. This kind of media is what leads to the failing policies that we see in Gaza.”

She continued, “We as journalists are there to afflict the comfortable and who is comfortable in this case? Who is really endangering both sides and harming American interests in the region? It’s those enforcing the status quo of the siege of Gaza and the occupation of the West Bank.”

Jebreal said that in her two years as an MSNBC contributor, she had protested the network’s slanted coverage repeatedly in private conversations with producers. “I told them we have a serious issue here,” she explained. “But everybody’s intimidated by this pressure and if it’s not direct then it becomes self-censorship.” (...)

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Posted: Jul 22, 2014 - 6:38am


#Baghdad2003

Al Jazeera has claimed that its offices in Gaza were targeted by the Israel Defense Forces. One of the channel's correspondents reported that the building came under fire on Tuesday. According to staff members, the 11th floor of the bureau was hit by two Israeli bullets as a crew was preparing to broadcast live from the balcony, the Guardian reported.

However, a spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces said that no warning shots were fired, the Jerusalem Post reported. He could not confirm or deny whether indirect damage to the building occurred during the targeting of nearby military targets.


"The irony, of course, is that, in the end, Stewart didn't discuss Israel on Monday's show."
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Posted: Jul 21, 2014 - 11:55am

The propaganda war over the Gaza crisis - Richard Falk
Palestinians struggle to get their version of events heard

On ‘Human Shielding’ in Gaza » CounterPunch

Calls for genocide enter Israeli mainstream | Jonathan Cook's Blog
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Posted: Jul 20, 2014 - 8:16pm


R_P

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Posted: Jul 20, 2014 - 12:04am

 ScottN wrote:
 RichardPrins wrote:
Gaza's crisis, Israeli ambition, and US decline
The US should stop enabling Israel's unfettered freedom of military initiative
.....
...Unfortunately for Gaza's people and US interests, the US' political class remains deeply resistant to these imperatives.
The USA, currently anyway, continues to follow a dramatically flawed policy, vis a vis, the middle east, especially Israel.
When we author a policy based on the principles we pride ourselves upon, perhaps, just perhaps, we will begin to see changes. Changes that benefit all.
 
Agreed, if that would happen then my previous answer would change. If not, it is likely to get worse still for all involved. Those that withhold the security of others, can't have it for themselves either.
ScottN

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Posted: Jul 19, 2014 - 11:45pm

 RichardPrins wrote:
Gaza's crisis, Israeli ambition, and US decline
The US should stop enabling Israel's unfettered freedom of military initiative
.....
...Unfortunately for Gaza's people and US interests, the US' political class remains deeply resistant to these imperatives.
The USA, currently anyway, continues to follow a dramatically flawed policy, vis a vis, the middle east, especially Israel.
When we author a policy based on the principles we pride ourselves upon, perhaps, just perhaps, we will begin to see changes. Changes that benefit all.


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Posted: Jul 19, 2014 - 11:35pm

Gaza's crisis, Israeli ambition, and US decline
The US should stop enabling Israel's unfettered freedom of military initiative.
(...) But Israel's insistence on perpetuating occupation - even without settlements - is renewing Hamas' resistance agenda. Earlier this week, after Israel accepted an Egyptian ceasefire proposal that would have done nothing to address the ongoing siege, Hamas made its own proposal: a ten-year truce, including a comprehensive ceasefire - if Israel met a set of ten demands.

Among them: opening all land crossings into Gaza, lifting the naval blockade, establishing an international airport and a seaport, freeing all prisoners arrested in the Israeli military's current campaign, and committing not to re-enter Gaza for a decade. 

Israel, of course, is not about to accede to any of this. And so the world waits to see if a ceasefire can be brokered, or whether Israel's military, after bombing at least 1,800 sites in Gaza since July 8, is mounting a "boots on the ground" operation there - which, Israeli officials warn, could last "many months".  

Among this situation's many tragic aspects, one is particularly galling: After strategically failed interventions in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and (by proxy) Syria, it is abundantly evident that Washington's quest to dominate the Middle East has not just failed. This quest has sapped US capacity to shape positive strategic outcomes in the region and, at least in relative terms, weakened the United States as a global player. Looking ahead, the experience of the Arab Awakening casts further doubt on the long-term plausibility of co-opting unrepresentative Arab governments into a US-led regional order that, among other things, enshrines Israel's perpetual military ascendancy. Yet, US policy elites stick with their hegemonic script.

The alternatives to Washington's failed quest for hegemony are twofold: to shift US strategy towards cultivating a stable balance of power in the Middle East and to promote greater reliance on international law and institutions as contributors to regional and global stability. Either or both would compel fundamental revision of US posture towards Israel.

Cultivating a stable regional balance will take serious engagement with all relevant actors, including those (Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran) that seek to constrain Israel through both hard and soft power. It will also require the United States to stop enabling Israel's unfettered freedom of military initiative, which contributes to regional instability. Similarly, promoting international legal frameworks as strategic stabilisers is meaningless unless Washington stops shielding Israel from the political consequences of thwarting them - whether by regularly violating international humanitarian law or by opting out of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and developing the region's only indigenous nuclear arsenal. 

Unfortunately for Gaza's people and US interests, the US' political class remains deeply resistant to these imperatives.

ScottN

ScottN Avatar

Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 19, 2014 - 9:55pm

 RichardPrins wrote:
As long as, Goliath on the one hand is able to buy all the advanced weaponry cheaply (i.e. heavily subsidized) and has the blinkered sympathy from some powerful parties, it will continue to act callously (and not just "currently"), while David on the other, is consistently painted as a terrorist and denied the means to defend or live with dignity, then the answer to your last question is obviously no.

So sad to read this and that you believe it likely true.  (my bold in your text). I cannot say I am surprised.  The alignment of alliances/interests vs. a very complex problem to start do not, I agree, hold much hope for a solution anytime soon.

I read RD's response too.  Your point is quite valid, and his heart seems to be in the right place as well. It's all about how far down the rabbit hole do we correspondents wish to go?


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