NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

eye for an eye...

QUESTION: On Ukraine.

MR MILLER: Ukraine? Yeah, go ahead.

QUESTION: The Ukrainians have recently said after some reports about the U.S. warning them not to target Russian oil refineries that they understand those warnings but they have certain military targets that they will continue to target. Can you just bring us up to speed with regard to those conversations between the U.S. and Ukraine and if you guys have recently been telling them that they should not go after these Russian oil refineries?

MR MILLER: So I’m not going to speak to specific conversations, but it has always been our position since the outset of this war that we do not encourage or support Ukraine taking strikes outside its own territory.

what the actual... ?? those days should be long gone. Like for like (tit for tat) should be the minimum policy now. What is the reasoning behind their reticence?

 R_P wrote:
I think my point was clear. What's yours?

 R_P wrote:

Conducting a public opinion poll over the outcome of a war?  Moronic. 

Posting said poll?  Are we sure you're not just another dumb bot?

 Lazy8 wrote:
Or March, 1968? March, 2006? March, 2023?

 R_P wrote:
Setting aside for the moment what the definition of "wins" is in this context, how would that poll have looked if it were conducted at the end of March, 1941?

 R_P wrote:
AKA apathy. 

that article is also a month old.  Most of Europe somehow think the war won't affect them. Kind of like the US before Pearl Harbor. 

Might not be readily apparent yet, but get ready for pump prices to rise again globally. 

IMO this can be directly attributed to  Mike Johnson holding up vital military aid for Ukraine which has basically forced Ukraine to take matters into its own hands and systematically take out Russia's oil refineries one by one. World gas prices can be expected to rise as a result. 

According to the FT, the US administration asked for Ukraine to cease and desist (fearing higher pump prices in an election year) but it looks like the speaker has squandered all your bargaining power over Ukraine which is facing more dire existential threats. I can't say I blame them.

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

+1

 black321 wrote:
Why do you think it can't be won? 
This war can easily be won, if the west steps up to the plate. Ukraine is being forced to fight with one hand tied behind its back and only using western army surplus and old soviet stocks.  Ukraine has not been given any western planes (bar the odd helicopter), buggar all hardware and is being forced to find its own innovations with drones etc. Moreover, it barely attacks Russian soil and has promised not to use western equipment to attack Russia.
Russia on the other hand, just bombs the shit out of civilian targets and no one gives a damn. Their attrition rate is about three times that of Ukraine, which, I guess, kind of even outs the numbers.

But even without western support, I think Ukraine will win. They are fighting for their life. They are not going to give up. Poland and the Baltics will support them as best they can (not to be sneezed at - I would even think that Poland and the Baltics alone could do the job).
However, I don't think it will get that dire. Slowly Europe is realising that Putin is indeed attacking the very idea of Europe and not just Ukraine and has been for a while.  When that finally sinks in and translates into policy decisions, Russia doesn't have a chance.

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:


There is perhaps a very fine line between Putin apologists, who argue politically he has a right to invade Ukraine and/or perhaps the west led him to invade by expanding Nato, and those who question a war that seemingly can't be won.  The latter point being, what are we going to accomplish either with the current piecemeal support, leading to a prolonged bludgeoning of both sides, or all out support? Can Ukraine win with either approach against its much stronger aggressor?  Also, I'm not pretending to be smart enough to answer these questions, but I do ask them. 

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

oops. yep, that's it. thx.

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

This is probably it: https://thecritic.co.uk/the-on...

this is the piece I think everyone should read.

The ongoing reality of Russian Imperialism


 black321 wrote:

ok, sincere apologies for the error.   

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

No, not of russian ancestry or a putin sympathizer. 
And fully agree with the bold. 

 black321 wrote:

I know.
ok, I don't know, 
but I suspect that you possibly have some Russian in you. So stretching out on a limb and forgive me if I am wildly wrong, but I personally have no problems with a lot of the aspects of Russian culture. I loved reading Russian literature. I see 19C Russian composers as the true legacy of European classical music (ok the Stockhausen crowd might come and beat me up tonight), but I was srsly into Shostakovich for a long time after slowly working my way through the epochs of European classical music. 
I truly, sincerely wish, that Russia would come on board and accept its place in Europe. It belongs there. It does. 

But this imperialistic streak and the very dark, dark places it takes Russia is a sickness. Sorry if that offends. But I can't see it any other way. Germany also went totally off the rails and I know evil it is latent in ALL cultures. I have seen it in NZ which many hold up as a paragon of virtue. We are all human. And that comes with risks attached.

Russia has to renounce its imperialist ambitions and join the global village as an equal member. Nothing more, nothing less. It would be a great addition to the family. 
oh, and pay reparations for the immense suffering it has caused. 

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

because, maybe, the belief is we can't "beat" Russia without fully escalating this situation.
so the best we can do is support a slow bludgeoning of both sides.
either way, its insanity....fighting over some hills. 

Tweet of the day:

While the West is busy telling Putin what they WONT do, Russia has just started mass production of 3000kg guided bombs that are sufficient to obliterate any European city.
The western world just has no idea what the fuck is happening