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Index » Regional/Local » Europe » Ukraine Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 13, 14, 15 ... 107, 108, 109  Next
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R_P

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Posted: Jul 13, 2023 - 10:16am

Riddle this: How many casualties are there, truly, on both sides of Ukraine war?
Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.) wants to force the administration to tell Congress what they know, if they know it.
Up until now, extreme polarization, squeezed through the media distortion field and a black hole of non-verified government information and straight-up propaganda, has given us what? A ton of wildly disparate estimates, typically with Russian casualties very high and Ukrainian figures either much lower or non-existent.

A Google News search of Russian-Ukrainian casualties today will result in the top eight article headlines all speculating on why Russian fatalities and injuries are so high. While there is an acknowledgment that “military casualties on both sides of the war are difficult to establish and verify; the warring sides often estimate rival losses, and are understood to downplay their own,” nearly every top story includes some effort by independent organizations and/or government source to size up the numbers — on the Russian side.

“(The) coverage invariably foregrounds and heavily publicizes Russian losses, while largely de-emphasizing Ukraine’s similar and arguably more devastating ones,” noted writer Branko Marcetic, in a RS article trying to make sense of the carousel of estimates in March.

This strange imbalance in information includes recent tracking from Mediazone, working with BBC, that hit all the headlines this week with an estimate of more than 27,000 Russian deaths based on publicly available information. Another, Meduza, also working with Mediazone and with publicly sourced info, pegs it at closer to 50,000 fatalities. Neither report focuses at all on Ukrainian casualties.

VV

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Posted: Jul 13, 2023 - 3:48am

 R_P wrote:

NYT knows who's the boss

The speech, at Vilnius University, came after a series of important victories for Mr. Biden as NATO’s de facto leader, at a time of rapid change for the alliance.

His success in cajoling President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey to drop his objections to Sweden’s admission as the 32nd member of NATO makes it possible to turn the Baltic Sea into a region bounded almost entirely by the alliance (though Mr. Erdogan suggested that Turkey’s Parliament may not take up the issue until October). NATO nations committed to boosting military spending that the United States has long complained was inadequate.

At the same time, Mr. Biden managed to quash an effort by Ukraine, with the support of Poland and several of the Baltic nations, to give a timetable for Ukraine to formally enter the alliance.


Thank God this all happened under Biden’s watch. Under Trump this would have all been over and Russia would be carving it up like a Thanksgiving turkey. But in the end… Trump would be best buddies with Putin and his second-rate nation… so theres that.


R_P

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Posted: Jul 13, 2023 - 12:02am

NYT knows who's the boss
The speech, at Vilnius University, came after a series of important victories for Mr. Biden as NATO’s de facto leader, at a time of rapid change for the alliance.

His success in cajoling President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey to drop his objections to Sweden’s admission as the 32nd member of NATO makes it possible to turn the Baltic Sea into a region bounded almost entirely by the alliance (though Mr. Erdogan suggested that Turkey’s Parliament may not take up the issue until October). NATO nations committed to boosting military spending that the United States has long complained was inadequate.

At the same time, Mr. Biden managed to quash an effort by Ukraine, with the support of Poland and several of the Baltic nations, to give a timetable for Ukraine to formally enter the alliance.

Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
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Posted: Jul 12, 2023 - 10:45pm

 R_P wrote:
The truth is you misspelled her name. Unforgivable! 

Thank you for that thoughtful and illuminating reply. Our lives are all the richer for it.
R_P

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Posted: Jul 12, 2023 - 9:50pm

The truth is you misspelled her name. Unforgivable! 
Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 12, 2023 - 6:46pm

 R_P wrote:
I don't expect you to do anything. Defense ministers or generals, esp. in times of war, have a tendency to be flexible with the truth.

"Victory is just around the corner! Last throes! "

"The result of a consistent and total substitution of lies for factual truth is not that the lie will now be accepted as truth and truth be defamed as a lie, but that the sense by which we take our bearings in the real world—and the category of truth versus falsehood is among the mental means to this end—is being destroyed."
—Hannah Arandt

“The point of modern propaganda isn't only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.”
― Garry Kasparov
R_P

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Posted: Jul 12, 2023 - 4:29pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
Not my point at all. Read the bolded statement; it is, as you acknowledge, a lie—and an obvious one. Yet you posted it and expect us to take anything else he says seriously.

I don't expect you to do anything. Defense ministers or generals, esp. in times of war, have a tendency to be flexible with the truth.

"Victory is just around the corner! Last throes! "

Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 12, 2023 - 4:22pm

 R_P wrote:
Sure. Already established some posts ago. Both sides have used and will use them more.

Not my point at all. Read the bolded statement; it is, as you acknowledge, a lie—and an obvious one. Yet you posted it and expect us to take anything else he says seriously.
R_P

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Posted: Jul 12, 2023 - 3:20pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
Sure. Already established some posts ago. Both sides have used and will use them more.

Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 12, 2023 - 3:01pm

 R_P wrote:
Delivery of cluster munitions to Kiev will prolong conflict in Ukraine — Shoigu
The supply of cluster munitions by the Americans to Kiev will prolong the conflict in Ukraine, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu told reporters on Tuesday.

"The whole world has already seen that they (the United States) have confirmed the transfer of cluster munitions. They justify this in different ways. They say that given the fact that conventional 155-caliber ammunition has actually run out, so now, until their production starts, they decided to cover it with these cluster munitions. This, of course, will affect the prolongation of the conflict," the minister said.

"Neither we, nor the Americans, nor Kiev have joined the Convention on Cluster Munitions. However, realizing the threat that such ammunition poses to the civilian population, Russia has refrained from using them in the special operation," Shoigu said.

"If the United States supplies cluster munitions to Ukraine, the Russian armed forces will be forced to use similar weapons against the Ukrainian armed forces as a response. It should be noted that Russia has cluster munitions in service, so to speak, for all occasions. At the same time, they much more effective than the American ones, their range is wider and more diverse," he stressed.

According to the minister, at present, the command of the Joint Group of Forces in the area of the special military operation is taking additional organizational and technical measures to protect personnel and equipment from striking elements of cluster munitions.
Not particularly "outraged".

Or honest.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Jul 12, 2023 - 12:58pm



first time I've had to laugh in this thread for a long time.

Beaker

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Location: Your safe space


Posted: Jul 12, 2023 - 10:58am

 R_P wrote:

Beaker Beaker wrote:

Seems obvious to me that particular 'news' source is going to be biased in RU's favour.

Or maybe I'm unreasonable.

In other news: water is wet.


Triggered much?
R_P

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Posted: Jul 12, 2023 - 10:45am

 Beaker Beaker wrote:

Seems obvious to me that particular 'news' source is going to be biased in RU's favour.

Or maybe I'm unreasonable.  


In other news: water is wet.

Beaker

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Location: Your safe space


Posted: Jul 12, 2023 - 10:43am

Hmm.  R_P posts a couple of links to anti-Ukraine stories ... on TASS.com.

Seems obvious to me that particular 'news' source is going to be biased in RU's favour.

"The Russian News Agency TASS, abbreviated TASS, is a Russian state-owned news agency founded in 1904. It is the largest Russian news agency and one of the largest news agencies worldwide. TASS is registered as a Federal State Unitary Enterprise, owned by the Government of Russia"

Founder: Ministry of Finance of the Russian Empire
Headquarters: Moscow, Russia


Or maybe I'm unreasonable.  
R_P

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Posted: Jul 12, 2023 - 10:38am

Delivery of cluster munitions to Kiev will prolong conflict in Ukraine — Shoigu
The supply of cluster munitions by the Americans to Kiev will prolong the conflict in Ukraine, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu told reporters on Tuesday.

"The whole world has already seen that they (the United States) have confirmed the transfer of cluster munitions. They justify this in different ways. They say that given the fact that conventional 155-caliber ammunition has actually run out, so now, until their production starts, they decided to cover it with these cluster munitions. This, of course, will affect the prolongation of the conflict," the minister said.

"Neither we, nor the Americans, nor Kiev have joined the Convention on Cluster Munitions. However, realizing the threat that such ammunition poses to the civilian population, Russia has refrained from using them in the special operation," Shoigu said.

"If the United States supplies cluster munitions to Ukraine, the Russian armed forces will be forced to use similar weapons against the Ukrainian armed forces as a response. It should be noted that Russia has cluster munitions in service, so to speak, for all occasions. At the same time, they much more effective than the American ones, their range is wider and more diverse," he stressed.

According to the minister, at present, the command of the Joint Group of Forces in the area of the special military operation is taking additional organizational and technical measures to protect personnel and equipment from striking elements of cluster munitions.
Not particularly "outraged".

VV

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 12, 2023 - 9:11am

 Lazy8 wrote:

Wonder if they're as outraged about the Russian shelling of Ukrainian cities with white phosphorus incendiary munitions.

Here's a simple life hack to prevent the country you invaded from returning fire with the same munitions you've been using on them: don't invade them.



...not to mention the thermobaric stuff.
 
Hey Russians... would you like a bomblet with your whine?
  
Life Hack 
Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 12, 2023 - 7:45am

 Proclivities wrote:
Exclusive story from Tass about the "Nazi Kiev regime".

Wonder if they're as outraged about the Russian shelling of Ukrainian cities with white phosphorus incendiary munitions.

Here's a simple life hack to prevent the country you invaded from returning fire with the same munitions you've been using on them: don't invade them.
Proclivities

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Posted: Jul 12, 2023 - 7:10am

 R_P wrote:
Exclusive story from Tass about the "Nazi Kiev regime".
R_P

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Posted: Jul 11, 2023 - 8:32pm

No time wasted.
Ukrainian troops shell Tokmak in Zaporozhye Region with cluster munitions
R_P

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Posted: Jul 11, 2023 - 6:26pm

Continued...
Many observers expected NATO to close shop after the collapse of its Cold War rival. But in the decade after 1989, the organization truly came into its own. NATO acted as a ratings agency for the European Union in Eastern Europe, declaring countries secure for development and investment. The organization pushed would-be partners to adhere to a liberal, pro-market creed, according to which — as President Bill Clinton’s national security adviser put it — “the pursuit of democratic institutions, the expansion of free markets” and “the promotion of collective security” marched in lock step. European military professionals and reform-minded elites formed a willing constituency, their campaigns boosted by NATO’s information apparatus.

When European populations proved too stubborn, or undesirably swayed by socialist or nationalist sentiments, Atlantic integration proceeded all the same. The Czech Republic was a telling case. Faced with a likely “no” vote in a referendum on joining the alliance in 1997, the secretary general and top NATO officials saw to it that the government in Prague simply dispense with the exercise; the country joined two years later. The new century brought more of the same, with an appropriate shift in emphasis. Coinciding with the global war on terrorism, the “big bang” expansion of 2004 — in which seven countries acceded — saw counterterrorism supersede democracy and human rights in alliance rhetoric. Stress on the need for liberalization and public sector reforms remained a constant.

In the realm of defense, the alliance was not as advertised. For decades, the United States has been the chief provider of weapons, logistics, air bases and battle plans. The war in Ukraine, for all the talk of Europe stepping up, has left that asymmetry essentially untouched. Tellingly, the scale of U.S. military aid — $47 billion over the first year of the conflict — is more than double that offered by European Union countries combined. European spending pledges may also turn out to be less impressive than they appear. More than a year after the German government publicized the creation of a special $110 billion fund for its armed forces, the bulk of the credits remain unused. In the meantime, German military commanders have said that they lack sufficient munitions for more than two days of high-intensity combat.

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