Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary Gender:
Posted:
Jul 18, 2014 - 12:55pm
sirdroseph wrote:
I am confused, you like a bill that is motivating parents to send their kids north at great peril or are you saying that this bill does not do that as the Democrats claim??
The "immigration" bill to which I refer is basically good legislation, imo, that has led to unintended consequences. The legislation must be modified, certainly.
As I understand it, there is a complex of reasons why this surge in child illegal entry has occurred. I leave that analysis to another time and thread. I simply reject the Kurster stated claim that it is an "invasion" and an "Obama plot" or "Obama allowed", as if he alone is responsible. That is far too simplistic.
I also know that nearly everyone who has participated in this thread the past couple of days holds Reagan in very low regard.
Reagan immediately cancelled his vacation to return to Washington to deal with this head on. If you actually watch it, pay attention to the 9:50 mark and while watching, remember how primitive our technology was 21 years ago, yet so much was known immediately regarding the incident and was shared as soon as it became available. This is a clear and stark contrast to Obama ...
First, you are the one who constantly brings Obama in at every opportunity.
Keep your crises straight. You keep refering to Obama allowing an invasion, implying that the great influx of kids into Texas is an Obama enabled phenomenon. In fact, it is a W. sponsored bill (which I happen to like) that is motivating parents to send their kids north...at great peril. Think for a moment how bad the situation must be in Central America, especially Honduras, to motivate parents, who dearly love their kids btw, to send them to us...alone. We haven't been, and should not, simply immediately deport them, or even prevent them from arriving. We need to work at the source.
These are children! While it cannot be allowed to go on indefinitely, we should shelter, protect and aid the kids who have already arrived. Obama plot? Puh-leeze.
I am confused, you like a bill that is motivating parents to send their kids north at great peril or are you saying that this bill does not do that as the Democrats claim??
Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary Gender:
Posted:
Jul 18, 2014 - 11:59am
kurtster wrote:
I'm far from asking for any kind of military confrontation.
This is not our fight. Its a European problem. That does not mean I am trying to minimize the importance of the act of shooting down a civilian aircraft. On the other hand the plane was flying through a war zone, so shit does happen and in war, no one is innocent. To think otherwise is to misunderstand what war really is.
But geez Louise, Obama can do more than offer an insincere claim of concern over the matter.
His remark came off as a contractual obligation, rather than having any real meaning.
But here we are in the weeds talking about Obama rather than the event itself.
First, you are the one who constantly brings Obama in at every opportunity.
Keep your crises straight. You keep refering to Obama allowing an invasion, implying that the great influx of kids into Texas is an Obama enabled phenomenon. In fact, it is a W. sponsored bill (which I happen to like) that is motivating parents to send their kids north...at great peril. Think for a moment how bad the situation must be in Central America, especially Honduras, to motivate parents, who dearly love their kids btw, to send them to us...alone. We haven't been, and should not, simply immediately deport them, or even prevent them from arriving. We need to work at the source.
These are children! While it cannot be allowed to go on indefinitely, we should shelter, protect and aid the kids who have already arrived. Obama plot? Puh-leeze.
You're nucking futz. To even go there is to assume that the plane was identified as a commercial airliner, the passenger manifest known, and deliberately shot down as opposed to an accident resulting from misidentification.
Really, Richard. You apparently will do anything to exploit a real crisis or tragedy for your own ends.
And,— stating it again — you are the one who brought Obama up in your very first post at a time when the facts were not even close to being known. You make it sound in this and your prior post in response to me that Obama should have been announcing some kind of action immediately after the plane went down.
Yeah he seems to think Obama should have had a fully wargamed plan and speech in place, ready for this totally predictable event.
You're nucking futz. To even go there is to assume that the plane was identified as a commercial airliner, the passenger manifest known, and deliberately shot down as opposed to an accident resulting from misidentification.
Really, Richard. You apparently will do anything to exploit a real crisis or tragedy for your own ends.
SRSLY?! This is probably your lamest attempt at trolling to date...
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Jul 18, 2014 - 11:43am
kurtster wrote:
Yes, a big slap at Obama, and an indictment regarding his handling of foreign affairs to date.
You seem to be blinded by your particular ideology on this matter. Obama is allowing an invasion on our southern border. He does not deserve respect anymore. His office does, but he has forsaken any obligation towards any personal respect, imo.
I don't live in your politically correct world, nor wish to.
The emperor has no clothes, get over it.
Politically correct world? I'm trying to get you into the world of logic and reason.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Jul 18, 2014 - 11:40am
kurtster wrote:
I'm far from asking for any kind of military confrontation.
This is not our fight. Its a European problem. That does not mean I am trying to minimize the importance of the act of shooting down a civilian aircraft. On the other hand the plane was flying through a war zone, so shit does happen and in war, no one is innocent. To think otherwise is to misunderstand what war really is.
But geez Louise, Obama can do more than offer an insincere claim of concern over the matter.
His remark came off as a contractual obligation, rather than having any real meaning.
But here we are in the weeds talking about Obama rather than the event itself.
And,— stating it again — you are the one who brought Obama up in your very first post at a time when the facts were not even close to being known. You make it sound in this and your prior post in response to me that Obama should have been announcing some kind of action immediately after the plane went down.
Delegates at a pre-conference in Sydney were told on Friday morning that about 100 medical researchers, health workers and activists were on the plane that went down near the Russia-Ukraine border, including former International AIDS Society president Joep Lange. (...)
Which is not to suggest that their lives were any more valuable than the others, but it adds another dimension to the overall tragedy...
You're nucking futz. To even go there is to assume that the plane was identified as a commercial airliner, the passenger manifest known, and deliberately shot down as opposed to an accident resulting from misidentification.
Really, Richard. You apparently will do anything to exploit a real crisis or tragedy for your own ends.
I love irony on a Friday afternoon. Yes, let's show those damn kids how really tough we are!
I'm far from asking for any kind of military confrontation.
This is not our fight. Its a European problem. That does not mean I am trying to minimize the importance of the act of shooting down a civilian aircraft. On the other hand the plane was flying through a war zone, so shit does happen and in war, no one is innocent. To think otherwise is to misunderstand what war really is.
But geez Louise, Obama can do more than offer an insincere claim of concern over the matter.
His remark came off as a contractual obligation, rather than having any real meaning.
But here we are in the weeds talking about Obama rather than the event itself.
Delegates at a pre-conference in Sydney were told on Friday morning that about 100 medical researchers, health workers and activists were on the plane that went down near the Russia-Ukraine border, including former International AIDS Society president Joep Lange. (...)
Lets see....Russians hate gay people, AIDS is a gay disease... I think we got ourselves a conspiracy, folks!
Delegates at a pre-conference in Sydney were told on Friday morning that about 100 medical researchers, health workers and activists were on the plane that went down near the Russia-Ukraine border, including former International AIDS Society president Joep Lange. (...)
Which is not to suggest that their lives were any more valuable than the others, but it adds another dimension to the overall tragedy...
Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary Gender:
Posted:
Jul 18, 2014 - 11:10am
kurtster wrote:
Yes, a big slap at Obama, and an indictment regarding his handling of foreign affairs to date.
You seem to be blinded by your particular ideology on this matter. Obama is allowing an invasion on our southern border. He does not deserve respect anymore. His office does, but he has forsaken any obligation towards any personal respect, imo.
I don't live in your politically correct world, nor wish to.
The emperor has no clothes, get over it.
I love irony on a Friday afternoon. Yes, let's show those damn kids how really tough we are!
Your post yesterday was at 12:07 p.m. ( PDT or 3:07 pm EDT ) This is what you said about Obama's initial statement (and all you said about Obama, period, in that post):
Obama has stated that finding out if any Americans on board was his first priority, while stating that this "may be a tragedy". Funny (not) how Obama is unsure that shooting down a commercial airliner is a tragedy . By any objective assessment, this is a gratuitous slap at Obama. The suggestion that he would find the shooting down of a commercial airliner resulting in 298 deaths not to be a tragedy is absurd.
Yes, a big slap at Obama, and an indictment regarding his handling of foreign affairs to date.
You seem to be blinded by your particular ideology on this matter. Obama is allowing an invasion on our southern border. He does not deserve respect anymore. His office does, but he has forsaken any obligation towards any personal respect, imo.
I don't live in your politically correct world, nor wish to.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Jul 18, 2014 - 9:08am
kurtster wrote:
Just one minute please.
I never once said this was a deliberate attack on a commercial airliner. Please backscroll and show where I said this was deliberate. Plus, I have yet to see any mention that the Ukrainian government or anyone else for that matter, thinks that a commercial airliner was deliberately targeted.
I agree with you that this was an unfortunate accident and most likely the result of piss poor planning and incompetence. Maybe the missile crew was drunk, who knows ? I don't. To deliberately attack a commercial airliner is an act of terror and not good for those seeking sympathy for their cause. This event is a lot of things rolled into one, but I have yet to conclude that it was anything more than the assholes manning the missiles thought that they had a military flight in their sights and were not skilled enough to verify their target before firing.
I stand behind everything that I have so far posted on this event.
Edit: My "joke" as you term it was anything but. It was an indictment against Obama. Once again, Obama chose to vote "present" on a matter that matters, rather than take a stand and commit himself to anything.
Your post yesterday was at 12:07 p.m. This is what you said about Obama's initial statement (and all you said about Obama, period, in that post):
Obama has stated that finding out if any Americans on board was his first priority, while stating that this "may be a tragedy". Funny (not) how Obama is unsure that shooting down a commercial airliner is a tragedy . By any objective assessment, this is a gratuitous slap at Obama. The suggestion that he would find the shooting down of a commercial airliner resulting in 298 deaths not to be a tragedy is absurd.
Driving home yesterday and listening to NPR, their reporter on the scene was being asked his opinion by the in-studio news host and the reporter (Noah Sneider?) seemed to be saying that there's no way this plane was singled out, and that there's no way any party on the ground would target a commercial airliner deliberately. The most likely scenario, he seemed to be saying, was simple incompetence. It takes more than one person to operate that missile system: one or more to locate incoming aircraft, a commander to give the order, and the missile itself has onboard systems that report back status such as signals received from the target aircraft. Apparently several systems that might have prevented this were available but obviously they failed or were ignored/misunderstood.
I was driving and making stops, in/out of the car so I apologize for the spotty summary, but like Kurt, I feel able to flesh out my own theories. Unlike Kurt (and the leadership of Ukraine), I am not able to immediately declare this to be a deliberate machination of Russia or the separatists. I do think the airline (and all the others) who didn't think changing their routes was necessary deserves a solid drubbing in the media. When we get on an airplane, we have no control of its route and we implicitly trust that we will not fly over active war zones, don't we?
And Kurt: May/Might, that's not what anyone cares about. Your tone-deaf Obama "joke" before the wreckage was even cool is what set people off. But why should anyone expect you to understand that when you learned everything you need to know about class and good taste from Rush?
Just one minute please.
I never once said this was a deliberate attack on a commercial airliner. Please backscroll and show where I said this was deliberate. Plus, I have yet to see any mention that the Ukrainian government or anyone else for that matter, thinks that a commercial airliner was deliberately targeted.
I agree with you that this was an unfortunate accident and most likely the result of piss poor planning and incompetence. Maybe the missile crew was drunk, who knows ? I don't. To deliberately attack a commercial airliner is an act of terror and not good for those seeking sympathy for their cause. This event is a lot of things rolled into one, but I have yet to conclude that it was anything more than the assholes manning the missiles thought that they had a military flight in their sights and were not skilled enough to verify their target before firing.
I stand behind everything that I have so far posted on this event.
Edit: My "joke" as you term it was anything but. It was an indictment against Obama. Once again, Obama chose to vote "present" on a matter that matters, rather than take a stand and commit himself to anything.
I think this parallels more with yesterday than the event you linked to.
Of course you do.
All of them seem to be the result of on-the-ground commanders being incompetent or otherwise unable to think rationally about what it is they're doing.
A brief glance at some of these shows little or no indication of intent by any government and over-reaching by pilots or local command.
Sounds to me like someone stuffed up big time. Awful.
Driving home yesterday and listening to NPR, their reporter on the scene was being asked his opinion by the in-studio news host and the reporter (Noah Sneider?) seemed to be saying that there's no way this plane was singled out, and that there's no way any party on the ground would target a commercial airliner deliberately. The most likely scenario, he seemed to be saying, was simple incompetence. It takes more than one person to operate that missile system: one or more to locate incoming aircraft, a commander to give the order, and the missile itself has onboard systems that report back status such as signals received from the target aircraft. Apparently several systems that might have prevented this were available but obviously they failed or were ignored/misunderstood.
I was driving and making stops, in/out of the car so I apologize for the spotty summary, but like Kurt, I feel able to flesh out my own theories. Unlike Kurt (and the leadership of Ukraine), I am not able to immediately declare this to be a deliberate machination of Russia or the separatists. I do think the airline (and all the others) who didn't think changing their routes was necessary deserves a solid drubbing in the media. When we get on an airplane, we have no control of its route and we implicitly trust that we will not fly over active war zones, don't we?
And Kurt: May/Might, that's not what anyone cares about. Your tone-deaf Obama "joke" before the wreckage was even cool is what set people off. But why should anyone expect you to understand that when you learned everything you need to know about class and good taste from Rush?
SRSLY?!
