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Index » Regional/Local » Far East » North Korea Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13, 14  Next
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cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 6, 2009 - 12:16pm

 Servo wrote:

First of all, the hostages requested Bill Clinton.  That came directly from the captive hostages, not the White House, and not Bill Clinton.

Although President Clinton was quoted as saying that he went "because President Obama asked" him to do so, there is no evidence that Clinton was in any way an official US emissary.  His plane did not come from the SAM inventory.

When it comes to matters of protocol and hot-button international affairs, I would expect a former POTUS to discuss the matter with the sitting POTUS, and only go with the sitting President's blessing.  (ie. Bill Clinton is not Jesse Jackson {#Lol})  But it's pretty clear from the news that Obama didn't send Clinton to make a deal.  In fact, all parties were mighty emphatic that nothing whatsoever was traded for the hostages.  (ie. Barack Obama is not Ronald Reagan.)

 
Fair enough. Sounds reasonable to me. I just hadn't read anything about the process. Nice Rev. Jackson reference though!

hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Aug 6, 2009 - 12:15pm

 Servo wrote:

I was proud to see Al Gore by Bill Clinton's side.  Great Symmetry there!

(FYI— for those who don't know, the hostages work for Gore's TV network.)

 
Hey Servo! Nice to see you again.

My former childhood next door neighbor, Joel Zylberberg, now Hyatt, is his partner.

Servo

Servo Avatar

Location: Down on the Farm
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 6, 2009 - 12:12pm

 musiclife wrote:

I was so proud that President Bill Clinton did this.. {#Clap}

 
I was proud to see Al Gore by Bill Clinton's side.  Great Symmetry there!

(FYI— for those who don't know, the hostages work for Gore's TV network.)


Servo

Servo Avatar

Location: Down on the Farm
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 6, 2009 - 12:09pm

 cc_rider wrote:
...I wonder how involved Pres. Obama was in the process. Did he go to Bill and ask him to do it, or did Bill just jump on a plane and go?
 
First of all, the hostages requested Bill Clinton.  That came directly from the captive hostages, not the White House, and not Bill Clinton.

Although President Clinton was quoted as saying that he went "because President Obama asked" him to do so, there is no evidence that Clinton was in any way an official US emissary.  His plane did not come from the SAM inventory.

When it comes to matters of protocol and hot-button international affairs, I would expect a former POTUS to discuss the matter with the sitting POTUS, and only go with the sitting President's blessing.  (ie. Bill Clinton is not Jesse Jackson {#Lol})  But it's pretty clear from the news that Obama didn't send Clinton to make a deal.  In fact, all parties were mighty emphatic that nothing whatsoever was traded for the hostages.  (ie. Barack Obama is not Ronald Reagan.)


cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 6, 2009 - 8:38am

 steeler wrote:
Sending Bill Clinton to North Korea to bring back the 2 journalist hostages was a stroke of brilliance.

You can see from the photos of Bill and Kim Jong seated next to each other that Jong saw this as some kind of coup for him. A meeting with a former U.S. President. However, Bill was in and out of there so quickly that I seriously doubt anyone else in the world saw it as anything more than it was — I'll go there to get these 2 women out of there.  If photos of me sitting stone-faced next to Jong is the price, well, that's cheap.  

Why buy into the game North Korea has been playing for years — that if you in any manner recognize us, you are in some manner condoning our practices.  That's an outmoded way of thinking, one that never really made much sense to me. 

Let Jong try to put a propaganda spin on this.  No one is buying. Meeting with someone is not a concession of anything.

We got 2 hostages released with nothing more than a long jet flight for Bill to and from North Korea.      

{#Clap}

 
While I do not question the tactic or the results, I wonder how involved Pres. Obama was in the process. Did he go to Bill and ask him to do it, or did Bill just jump on a plane and go? Ex-Prezzes have been known to 'go rogue', for better and for worse, I'm just wondering. Obviously I have not read any of the media about the incident.

Regardless, stiller's analysis seems pretty much on target. Give the spoiled brat KJI just enough attention to keep him from throwing a dangerous tantrum, but not enough to make him think he's a serious player.

Sending Bill, instead of, say, Joe, gives the situation just the right amount of credibility.


Zep

Zep Avatar



Posted: Aug 6, 2009 - 8:37am

There are some back story details reported today.

The two journalists were allowed to periodically call home from their prison in North Korea.  Before one of those calls, the Koreans told the women that they would be granted amnesty if Bill Clinton would come get them.  That was passed along, eventually to Al Gore, then to Clinton, who coordinated the trip with the White House.  Apparently, Kim specifically asked for the former president.

The Americans had to work with the Chinese, Japanese, and Russians to provide assurances that Clinton's trip would not turn into a bilateral discussion on Kim's nuclear program.  There would have been precious little time and no preparation for such talks anyway.  Clinton did bring up the topic of South Korean citizens who have been kidnapped to the north. 

For now, it looks like very little political capital was spent.  Photos of a former US president and the current North Korean dictator were no doubt spread across the world, and domestically, Kim can pretty much do or say anything he wants with it.  He has not yet asked for any quid pro quo, although resumption of the six-party talks is high on the list of potential considerations.

As Kurt mentioned below, the trip provides a fascinating peek behind the door into North Korea, and everybody who went along will have much to report.  No doubt Kim realised this, and considered that his gain, whatever that may be, would outweigh that.

hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Aug 6, 2009 - 8:30am

 musiclife wrote:

I was so proud that President Bill Clinton did this.. {#Clap}



 
He is DA MAN!!!!!!!!

{#Notworthy}

musiclife

musiclife Avatar

Location: Texas
Gender: Female


Posted: Aug 6, 2009 - 8:26am

I was so proud that President Bill Clinton did this.. {#Clap}


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 5, 2009 - 5:26pm

 steeler wrote:
Sending Bill Clinton to North Korea to bring back the 2 journalist hostages was a stroke of brilliance.

You can see from the photos of Bill and Kim Jong seated next to each other that Jong saw this as some kind of coup for him. A meeting with a former U.S. President. However, Bill was in and out of there so quickly that I seriously doubt anyone else in the world saw it as anything more than it was — I'll go there to get these 2 women out of there.  If photos of me sitting stone-faced next to Jong is the price, well, that's cheap.  

Why buy into the game North Korea has been playing for years — that if you in any manner recognize us, you are in some manner condoning our practices.  That's an outmoded way of thinking, one that never really made much sense to me. 

Let Jong try to put a propaganda spin on this.  No one is buying. Meeting with someone is not a concession of anything.

We got 2 hostages released with nothing more than a long jet flight for Bill to and from North Korea.      

{#Clap}

 
Bonus feature is that we (the US) actually got a first hand look at Kim and should have come home with some greater insight as to how shots are being called in NK.  That makes it a win / win.

jadewahoo

jadewahoo Avatar

Location: Puerto Viejo, Costa Rica
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 5, 2009 - 3:15pm

 manbirdexperiment wrote:

plus hey, free lunch for him.

 
... and dim sum.

Manbird

Manbird Avatar

Location: Owl Creek Bridge
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 5, 2009 - 3:12pm

 dionysius wrote:


Amen. I'm not a big fan of Clinton, but what he did here was sheer brilliance.
 
plus hey, free lunch for him.
dionysius

dionysius Avatar

Location: The People's Republic of Austin
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 5, 2009 - 3:11pm

 steeler wrote:
Sending Bill Clinton to North Korea to bring back the 2 journalist hostages was a stroke of brilliance.

You can see from the photos of Bill and Kim Jong seated next to each other that Jong saw this as some kind of coup for him. A meeting with a former U.S. President. However, Bill was in and out of there so quickly that I seriously doubt anyone else in the world saw it as anything more than it was — I'll go there to get these 2 women out of there.  If photos of me sitting stone-faced next to Jong is the price, well, that's cheap.  

Why buy into the game North Korea has been playing for years — that if you in any manner recognize us, you are in some manner condoning our practices.  That's an outmoded way of thinking, one that never really made much sense to me. 

Let Jong try to put a propaganda spin on this.  No one is buying. Meeting with someone is not a concession of anything.

We got 2 hostages released with nothing more than a long jet flight for Bill to and from North Korea.      

{#Clap}

 

Amen. I'm not a big fan of Clinton, but what he did here was sheer brilliance.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Aug 5, 2009 - 3:02pm

Sending Bill Clinton to North Korea to bring back the 2 journalist hostages was a stroke of brilliance.

You can see from the photos of Bill and Kim Jong seated next to each other that Jong saw this as some kind of coup for him. A meeting with a former U.S. President. However, Bill was in and out of there so quickly that I seriously doubt anyone else in the world saw it as anything more than it was — I'll go there to get these 2 women out of there.  If photos of me sitting stone-faced next to Jong is the price, well, that's cheap.  

Why buy into the game North Korea has been playing for years — that if you in any manner recognize us, you are in some manner condoning our practices.  That's an outmoded way of thinking, one that never really made much sense to me. 

Let Jong try to put a propaganda spin on this.  No one is buying. Meeting with someone is not a concession of anything.

We got 2 hostages released with nothing more than a long jet flight for Bill to and from North Korea.      

{#Clap}


Coaxial

Coaxial Avatar

Location: 543 miles west of Paradis,1491 miles eas
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 19, 2009 - 4:59pm

 hobiejoe wrote:
Bit of brinksmanship going on in the Far East at the moment.....
 
 

US navy prepares to intercept North Korean ship

Kang Nam vessel suspected of transporting weapons, a violation of UN sanctions imposed last week

Tension was growing in the Pacific today as the US navy prepared to intercept a North Korean cargo ship suspected of carrying weapons in defiance of a United Nations ban.

The US navy has been tracking the Kang Nam since its left a North Korean port on Wednesday.

It would be the first ship to be intercepted since the UN last week imposed sanctions on North Korea as punishment for conducting an underground nuclear test last month. The sanctions ban the import and export of nuclear material, missiles and all other weapons other than small arms.

A USS destroyer, the John McCain (named after the father of the Republican senator, who was an admiral), was awaiting orders to intercept the ship off the Chinese coast.

More...


 
Aye, it's crap like this that makes me real nervous...Never know how the major loon will respond...

hobiejoe

hobiejoe Avatar

Location: Still in the tunnel, looking for the light.
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 19, 2009 - 4:23pm

Bit of brinksmanship going on in the Far East at the moment.....
 
 

US navy prepares to intercept North Korean ship

Kang Nam vessel suspected of transporting weapons, a violation of UN sanctions imposed last week

Tension was growing in the Pacific today as the US navy prepared to intercept a North Korean cargo ship suspected of carrying weapons in defiance of a United Nations ban.

The US navy has been tracking the Kang Nam since its left a North Korean port on Wednesday.

It would be the first ship to be intercepted since the UN last week imposed sanctions on North Korea as punishment for conducting an underground nuclear test last month. The sanctions ban the import and export of nuclear material, missiles and all other weapons other than small arms.

A USS destroyer, the John McCain (named after the father of the Republican senator, who was an admiral), was awaiting orders to intercept the ship off the Chinese coast.

More...



Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: May 30, 2009 - 7:41pm

 winter wrote:

Well, with all due respect to the Father of Our Country, I disagree. It's a bit late to go looking for friends when you need help moving, IMO. ("Dude! I just met you and you seem totally cool! Want to help me haul my furniture up and down stairs next Saturday?")

And if you're only a friend when you need something, are you a true friend or just a user? 

 
Friends are one thing, alliances between nation states are something else entirely.  Good relations are a good thing, permanent alliances are not.  Besides, if we mind our own business the chances of going to war - or making alliances - are much reduced.

winter

winter Avatar

Location: in exile, as always
Gender: Male


Posted: May 30, 2009 - 7:34pm

 oldslabsides wrote:

On this we shall agree to disagree.

I don't want a wall, just an unwillingness to interfere in the affairs of others.  George Washington argued in his farewell address that alliances are dangerous things, sometimes necessary in war but never in peace.  I don't see that that fundamental bit of wisdom has any less validity today.
 
Well, with all due respect to the Father of Our Country, I disagree. It's a bit late to go looking for friends when you need help moving, IMO. ("Dude! I just met you and you seem totally cool! Want to help me haul my furniture up and down stairs next Saturday?")

And if you're only a friend when you need something, are you a true friend or just a user? 
katzendogs

katzendogs Avatar

Location: Pasadena ,Texas
Gender: Male


Posted: May 30, 2009 - 7:32pm

 winter wrote:

I don't think they've got any reason to attack us first. Their bombs aren't even as big as the first ones we built back in WWII.
 
I don't have a fly by link but that is not what was mentioned. Pretty sure.

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: May 30, 2009 - 7:30pm

 winter wrote:


Big picture? We're all interconnected, like it or lump it. The oceans are a lot narrower than they were, and the cost of living behind a wall far outweighs the benefits, IMO.

 
On this we shall agree to disagree.

I don't want a wall, just an unwillingness to interfere in the affairs of others.  George Washington argued in his farewell address that alliances are dangerous things, sometimes necessary in war but never in peace.  I don't see that that fundamental bit of wisdom has any less validity today.

winter

winter Avatar

Location: in exile, as always
Gender: Male


Posted: May 30, 2009 - 7:26pm

 oldslabsides wrote:

I can live with the shame of the mistakes of past leadership.  Minding one's own business hardly seems shortsighted to me.

I think the "suitcase" bomb threat has been overstated in an attempt at fear mongering.  If it were really that easy, someone would have done it by now.
 

Big picture? We're all interconnected, like it or lump it. The oceans are a lot narrower than they were, and the cost of living behind a wall far outweighs the benefits, IMO.
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