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There's more than a whiff of bitterness in this, but I'm not quite sure who or what it is directed at. Pretty sure it is not Islander.
I'm weary.
Tired of the country lurching from ditch to ditch instead of getting down the road. Tired of partisans hunkered down in their ditches sniping at anyone who isn't in their ditch, and excusing any atrocity as long as it's directed at those outside the ditch.
Tired of the sanctimony. Tired of the hypocrisy. Of the dishonesty and the tolerance for it so long as it serves the interests of the ditch. Tired of being called a Left Ditcher when I criticize the tactics of the Right Ditch and a Right Ditcher when I criticize the tactics of the Left Ditch. Tired of being told to pick a ditch when my destination is not the mud but the horizon, and even the road between the ditches goes the wrong way.
So very tired of trying to point out that horizon to people who won't lift their gaze out of their ditch.
There are numerous breakdowns of exit polls by income brackets. In this NBC exit poll, family income under $30K was shown as 50% Harris, 46% Trump, but $30K to $100K was shown as 46% Harris, to 51% Trump.
thanks. clear bias on the state of the economy, as noted in many other polls. Yet, in the aggregate the economy was pretty good in 2024, and certainly compared to 2020.
Sure, obviously the poor have less fire power...but do they?
Look at the stats of who voted for trump by income bracket...In 2020, the lower income supported trump, middle income favored biden, higher income slightly favored trump.
In 2024 it was all lower income, while >$100K favored Harris.
bringing it back to the topic...in prewar Germany, lower and mid classes showed most support for the Nazi party.
There are numerous breakdowns of exit polls by income brackets. In this NBC exit poll, family income under $30K was shown as 50% Harris, 46% Trump, but $30K to $100K was shown as 46% Harris, to 51% Trump.
agreed, but my point is that is not the poor posing a threat to social cohesion in the current climate, but the disaffected affluent, or at least, if not exactly affluent, those people who have enough to show a little bit more generosity.
Sure, obviously the poor have less fire power...but do they?
Look at the stats of who voted for trump by income bracket...In 2020, the lower income supported trump, middle income favored biden, higher income slightly favored trump.
In 2024 it was all lower income, while >$100K favored Harris.
bringing it back to the topic...in prewar Germany, lower and mid classes showed most support for the Nazi party.
agreed, but my point is that is not the poor posing a threat to social cohesion in the current climate, but the disaffected affluent, or at least, if not exactly affluent, those people who have enough to show a little bit more generosity.
Oh, I agree absolutely. We are not talking about real incomes, but perceived ones, and not even that but more importantly people's perception of where they are in the social hierarchy.
We are pretty much running around like hens in a coop scrapping over food, when actually, there is a pretty endless supply of the essentials for most people.
For example, the people I know here in Germany who vote AfD (officially found to be a Nazi party by one of the courts) , which is polling at around 25% of the total vote are all affluent and WAY richer than their parents ever were.
The problem is, they have got used to it and want MORE but feel that there aspirations are under threat so they hunt around for scapegoats, such as the government, the Green Party, illegal aliens, legal aliens, etc. etc.
My question is why are these people, who are on the pig's back
a) so greedy
b) so threatened?
a) the poor as a group dont appear to be any less greedy than the rich as a group.
b) seems to reflect the growing wage gap, and i would assume an evolutionary instinct.
The root of many of our social problems could be overcome with better or more of the right type of education, but even here it is being politicized. And now we have a little bit of (biased) knowledge thanks to our 30 second Instagram sound bites...which are increasingly AI, so this "knowledge" could become an even bigger problem. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
I don't necessarily disagree, but...there is more than one way of looking at the data.
1. Yes, the gap between the haves and have nots is and continues to get bigger, since the Reagan trickle down strategy was adopted.
2. At the same time, real wealth of the bottom half and even the bottom quarter all improved over the past 40 odd years.
3. Part of #2 is due to both parents working again. One could argue for the social, cultural, and emotional value of having one parent at homeâwhile also recognizing the importance of that parent maintaining their own economic independence.
Regardless of #3, real wealth and incomes did grow for the bottom half. So it seems, like with the government, itâs more of a spending problem than a revenue one.
It brings to mind a story I read about struggling single mother from upstate NY. She makes $38K a year (about $2,500 a month after-tax) and has three kids. In the article, they discuss her budget â her biggest item was about $2200 for rent (40% subsidized) â but also included $400 for internet/phones. You can certainly ask where the three fathers areâthatâs another major issueâbut here you have a family behind on rent and struggling to afford proper food, all while following an ideology that prioritizes phones and internet over those essentials.
Oh, I agree absolutely. We are not talking about real incomes, but perceived ones, and not even that but more importantly people's perception of where they are in the social hierarchy.
We are pretty much running around like hens in a coop scrapping over food, when actually, there is a pretty endless supply of the essentials for most people.
For example, the people I know here in Germany who vote AfD (officially found to be a Nazi party by one of the courts) , which is polling at around 25% of the total vote are all affluent and WAY richer than their parents ever were.
The problem is, they have got used to it and want MORE but feel that there aspirations are under threat so they hunt around for scapegoats, such as the government, the Green Party, illegal aliens, legal aliens, etc. etc.
My question is why are these people, who are on the pig's back
a) so greedy
b) so threatened?
So in 2003 or so I was part of a program called community voice mail. It gave voice mailboxes to low income and homeless people to improve their ability to have access to communication, specifically to the job market. There was a pretty decent study on it that showed that participants in the program had a much better chance of getting and keeping a job due to their increased ability to get and return messages.
This was simply a voicemailbox, not a phone, and it was 2003. In 2025, I can't imagine how you would get (and keep) most jobs without a phone and internet access. I struggle with some of our customers who refuse to use e-mail. Tik-Tok may be on the frivolous side, but I'd say a phone an internet are pretty essential to today's world.
Edit to add:
So yes, wealth has increased. But so has the cost and content of what is 'essential'.
Yes, a phone and internet are essential. But, $400 a month? I can only assume that includes for monthly payments of an iphone or other top of the line model phone.
Sneakers for kids are also "essential." But, Nike, or some knock off-brand?
Sure, it may be socially humiliating. The adopted ideology is you get an iphone and Nike. But when you are struggling to pay rent, buy food...those choices matter.
I don't necessarily disagree, but...there is more than one way of looking at the data.
1. Yes, the gap between the haves and have nots is and continues to get bigger, since the Reagan trickle down strategy was adopted.
2. At the same time, real wealth of the bottom half and even the bottom quarter all improved over the past 40 odd years.
3. Part of #2 is due to both parents working again. One could argue for the social, cultural, and emotional value of having one parent at homeâwhile also recognizing the importance of that parent maintaining their own economic independence.
Regardless of #3, real wealth and incomes did grow for the bottom half. So it seems, like with the government, itâs more of a spending problem than a revenue one.
It brings to mind a story I read about struggling single mother from upstate NY. She makes $38K a year (about $2,500 a month after-tax) and has three kids. In the article, they discuss her budget â her biggest item was about $2200 for rent (40% subsidized) â but also included $400 for internet/phones. You can certainly ask where the three fathers areâthatâs another major issueâbut here you have a family behind on rent and struggling to afford proper food, all while following an ideology that prioritizes phones and internet over those essentials.
So in 2003 or so I was part of a program called community voice mail. It gave voice mailboxes to low income and homeless people to improve their ability to have access to communication, specifically to the job market. There was a pretty decent study on it that showed that participants in the program had a much better chance of getting and keeping a job due to their increased ability to get and return messages.
This was simply a voicemailbox, not a phone, and it was 2003. In 2025, I can't imagine how you would get (and keep) most jobs without a phone and internet access. I struggle with some of our customers who refuse to use e-mail. Tik-Tok may be on the frivolous side, but I'd say a phone an internet are pretty essential to today's world.
Edit to add:
So yes, wealth has increased. But so has the cost and content of what is 'essential'.
It's a mistake to think this is just the white working class demographic. I would extend it to large swathes of the middle class (and not just the white middle class) who are getting rubbed out by the crass accumulation of wealth by the top 1%. The feeling of slipping from "actually pretty well off and moving forward" to "shit, how am I going to make ends meet, we are slipping" is a pretty potent force.
It's going to get messy when the humiliated realise they just got even more humiliated.
I don't necessarily disagree, but...there is more than one way of looking at the data.
1. Yes, the gap between the haves and have nots is and continues to get bigger, since the Reagan trickle down strategy was adopted.
2. At the same time, real wealth of the bottom half and even the bottom quarter all improved over the past 40 odd years.
3. Part of #2 is due to both parents working again. One could argue for the social, cultural, and emotional value of having one parent at homeâwhile also recognizing the importance of that parent maintaining their own economic independence.
Regardless of #3, real wealth and incomes did grow for the bottom half. So it seems, like with the government, itâs more of a spending problem than a revenue one.
It brings to mind a story I read about struggling single mother from upstate NY. She makes $38K a year (about $2,500 a month after-tax) and has three kids. In the article, they discuss her budget â her biggest item was about $2200 for rent (40% subsidized) â but also included $400 for internet/phones. You can certainly ask where the three fathers areâthatâs another major issueâbut here you have a family behind on rent and struggling to afford proper food, all while following an ideology that prioritizes phones and internet over those essentials.
When it comes to money and people's earning power buying less and less... (refer to my post below), Trump will come up with a set of lies blaming their situation on: Obama, Biden, Dems, Immigrants, wokeness, fake news, overreach by federal judges, European Union, windmills...etc. And instead of his followers applying some critical thinking... they will just buy the excuses hook-line-and sinker.
We all know his MO by now but calling it out doesn't even seem to make a dent.
and funnily enough, this is exactly the same strategy taken by Putin with Russia. If you want to see where there is headed, you need look no further than there.
Good point; yet when it comes to M-O-N-E-Y people begin to get real. When goods are costing more, resentment from Sellers and Consumers grows. I doubt the U.S. financial market will allow a complete collapse to banana republic economy. There are global financial forces at work here too. I'm hoping the insatiable greed continues enough to reject Trump's ultimate bankruptcy of the United States. The monied won't stay that way if everything collapses into Marshall Law and a crashed economy.
I was also wondering about what our Military forces would do if ordered to attack their own for not following the Autocrat. I have a feeling for at least half of it, would be a bridge too far, even for them. Tears came to my eyes having to even consider the possibility.
When it comes to money and people's earning power buying less and less... (refer to my post below), Trump will come up with a set of lies blaming their situation on: Obama, Biden, Dems, Immigrants, wokeness, fake news, overreach by federal judges, European Union, windmills...etc. And instead of his followers applying some critical thinking... they will just buy the excuses hook-line-and sinker.
We all know his MO by now but calling it out doesn't even seem to make a dent.
Really? I want to believe that but I think they will continue to get spoon-fed whatever lies and excuses Trump manufactures to explain their situation while propping himself up as the answer and most will accept it unconditionally. When you have invested yourself so deeply into something that your own identity has now been compromised⦠itâs pretty hard to fold your cards and step away from the table to say âIâve had enoughâ.
Good point; yet when it comes to M-O-N-E-Y people begin to get real. When goods are costing more, resentment from Sellers and Consumers grows. I doubt the U.S. financial market will allow a complete collapse to banana republic economy. There are global financial forces at work here too. I'm hoping the insatiable greed continues enough to reject Trump's ultimate bankruptcy of the United States. The monied won't stay that way if everything collapses into Marshall Law and a crashed economy.
I was also wondering about what our Military forces would do if ordered to attack their own for not following the Autocrat. I have a feeling for at least half of it, would be a bridge too far, even for them. Tears came to my eyes having to even consider the possibility.
It's going to get messy when the humiliated realise they just got even more humiliated.
Really? I want to believe that but I think they will continue to get spoon-fed whatever lies and excuses Trump manufactures to explain their situation while propping himself up as the answer and most will accept it unconditionally. When you have invested yourself so deeply into something that your own identity has now been compromised⦠itâs pretty hard to fold your cards and step away from the table to say âIâve had enoughâ.
Humiliating trade deficits, expensive lost wars and...
Crucial to Trumpâs victory in the 2016 US presidential election were white, working-class voters. While it is not yet entirely clear why so many of these voters supported him, Trumpâs appeal to their economic interests and promise to restore their social status may both have been important. One argument is that Trump rode a wave of anger in white working-class voters, which resulted from their feelings of humiliation. This humiliation is proposed to have stemmed from a loss of both financial and cultural status.
Trump vowed to halt the humiliation of this group. He also vowed to end what some of these voters saw as Americaâs humiliation. In both cases, Trump turned the tables by humiliating the perceived humiliators.
The list of those deemed responsible was long and distinguished. Candidate Trump targeted men and women, Republicans and Democrats, Americans and non-Americans, individuals and corporations, the powerful and the vulnerable.
It's a mistake to think this is just the white working class demographic. I would extend it to large swathes of the middle class (and not just the white middle class) who are getting rubbed out by the crass accumulation of wealth by the top 1%. The feeling of slipping from "actually pretty well off and moving forward" to "shit, how am I going to make ends meet, we are slipping" is a pretty potent force.
It's going to get messy when the humiliated realise they just got even more humiliated.
