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Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » Looting & vandalism isn't protest Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 25, 26, 27 ... 35, 36, 37  Next
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KarmaKarma

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Posted: Jul 19, 2020 - 5:07pm

Now do Seattle!



KarmaKarma

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Posted: Jul 19, 2020 - 1:04pm

Updated tourism promo video from Portland is now out!

R_P

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Posted: Jul 17, 2020 - 10:22am

Masks Off: How the Brothers Who Fueled the Reopen Protests Built a Volatile Far-Right Network
The emails played to fear. “Entire police departments are being overwhelmed by mobs of criminals bent on violence, robbery, arson, and more,” read one sent in June, as demonstrations against police brutality rocked the country. “Minnesotans have seen our peaceful streets turn violent overnight with riotous mobs,” read another, sent not long after the burning of Minneapolis’s Third Precinct. “Radical leftists … are looting in our streets, lighting buildings on fire, terrifying citizens, and murdering cops,” intoned a third. Antifa is in the streets, coming for your guns, and did you know that Nickelodeon is removing the police dog character from the hit toddler show “Paw Patrol?” (It isn’t.)

For right-wing fringe activist Ben Dorr, who sent the emails, outrage about Black Lives Matter was an easy pivot from another cause he’d been promoting. With his brothers Aaron, Chris, and Matthew, Ben Dorr helped launch protests to reopen states across the country shut down amid the coronavirus pandemic this spring. Alone or together, the four Dorr brothers started a slew of Facebook groups, joined by hundreds of thousands of members, that have helped to fuel skepticism about health precautions and pushed for states to open prematurely. In a country where the simple act of wearing a mask has become a political statement, the people who organize against masks are worth watching.

The Dorr brothers, who range in age from 29 to 40, have ties to tea party figures like Michele Bachmann and Ron Paul and have been dismissed by people on both the right and the left as astroturfing hucksters who are more interested in profit than policy. Even the National Rifle Association has denounced them as scammers. Before they began railing against public health measures, the brothers started gun rights and anti-abortion groups in multiple states, registering them as nonprofits and then paying out some of the money that they raise from donations to a for-profit direct mail company that they themselves control, according to IRS tax forms required to be filed by nonprofits. (...)

R_P

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Posted: Jul 11, 2020 - 3:10pm

The Boogaloo Tipping Point
What happens when a meme becomes a terrorist movement?
On May 29, two federal security officers guarding a courthouse in Oakland, California, were ambushed by machine-gun fire as elsewhere in the city demonstrators marched peacefully to protest the killing of George Floyd. One of the guards, David Patrick Underwood, died as a result of the attack, and the other was wounded. For days, conservative news broadcasters pinned the blame on “antifa,” the loosely affiliated group of anti-fascist anarchists known to attack property and far-right demonstrators at protests. But the alleged culprit, apprehended a week later, turned out to be a 32-year-old Air Force sergeant named Steven Carrillo, the head of a squadron called the Phoenix Ravens, which guards military installations from terrorist attacks.

According to prosecutors, Carrillo and an accomplice, 30-year-old Robert A. Justus Jr., were part of the “boogaloo” movement, a patchwork of right-leaning anti-government libertarians, Second Amendment advocates, and gun enthusiasts all preparing for another American civil war.

Authorities say that when they went to apprehend Carrillo at his residence, he attacked them with pipe bombs, killing a police sergeant named Damon Gutzwiller. Investigators found a boogaloo-themed patch in a vehicle used by Carrillo. And Carrillo had scrawled boog, along with various boogaloo slogans, in his own blood on the hood of a car.

The boogaloo movement originally grew from the weapons discussion section (“/k/”) of the anarchic anonymous message board 4chan over the past several years. By 2019, its culture had disseminated across social media into a mix of online groups and chat servers where users shared libertarian political memes. In the past six months, this all began to manifest in real life, as users from the groups emerged at protests in what became their signature uniform: aloha shirts and combat gear. As nationwide unrest intensified at the start of the summer, many boogaloo adherents interpreted this as a cue to realize the group’s central fantasy—armed revolt against the U.S. government. (...)

sirdroseph

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Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 11, 2020 - 3:06am



 KarmaKarma wrote:
Seattle property values along with property & business tax revenues are on the verge of plummeting!  Can you imagine what that means?!

What?  You don't think a major disruption to the mechanisms keeping your citizenry safe from the dregs of society won't have any significant consequences?

Seattle city leaders throw support behind defunding SPD by 50%
—-

Group to present ways to defund Seattle Police by 50% to city council

SEATTLE — A group known as Decriminalize Seattle is set to go before the city council Wednesday morning presenting a list of ways they want to see 50% of Seattle Police Department's budget removed.

They believe fewer police officers on the streets will make those streets safer.


Be careful what you wish for
.

You may get it. Good and hard.
 

I actually welcome this to quote Brian Eno; "is necessary for the learning."   It will be a tough lesson for some, but there are many who have very tough lives already and I welcome the hardship to be shifted a bit to wealthy white people who really have no idea what life is like on the streets with no protection.  I have heard some BLM activist say the same thing and I agree with them is all.   The experience of going too far the other way will promote more understanding for what else the police does for their communities other than beat the shit out of them, an act of which is usually seen at the end of a an incident and out of context.   Don't get me wrong, Libertarians have been watching, realizing and warning others of the militarization, over aggression and relationship breakdown between law enforcement and their citizens for some time.  However their is another side to this story and that is there are a lot of really bad, angry and desperate people out there who commit heinous acts and the police are the only ones who actively investigate, pursue and defend us against them and that story will be unleashed into the foray and hopefully perpetuate a good faith relationship between social justice advocates and the police and their unions that does not come to the table with a movement whose very name means to exterminate their jobs or to take a lot of their money away and expect them to bow down and accept their fate.   In the meantime, oh there will be pain.........




de·fund/dēˈfənd/
Learn to pronounce
verbUSverb: defund; 3rd person present: defunds; past tense: defunded; past participle: defunded; gerund or present participle: defunding; verb: de-fund; 3rd person present: de-funds; past tense: de-funded; past participle: de-funded; gerund or present participle: de-funding
  1. prevent from continuing to receive funds."the California Legislature has defunded the Industrial Welfare Commission"


a·bol·ish/əˈbäliSH/
Learn to pronounce
verbverb: abolish; 3rd person present: abolishes; past tense: abolished; past participle: abolished; gerund or present participle: abolishing
  1. formally put an end to (a system, practice, or institution)."the tax was abolished in 1977"

KarmaKarma

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Posted: Jul 10, 2020 - 7:14pm

Seattle property values along with property & business tax revenues are on the verge of plummeting!  Can you imagine what that means?!

What?  You don't think a major disruption to the mechanisms keeping your citizenry safe from the dregs of society won't have any significant consequences?

Seattle city leaders throw support behind defunding SPD by 50%
—-

Group to present ways to defund Seattle Police by 50% to city council

SEATTLE — A group known as Decriminalize Seattle is set to go before the city council Wednesday morning presenting a list of ways they want to see 50% of Seattle Police Department's budget removed.

They believe fewer police officers on the streets will make those streets safer.


Be careful what you wish for
.

You may get it. Good and hard.
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 10, 2020 - 2:46am

 sirdroseph wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

Do you read what you type / write ?

Just sayin'
 
Irony cannot be held by any borders.
 
I did let it sit for a couple of days.  But it was still there, so ...
sirdroseph

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Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 10, 2020 - 2:30am



 kurtster wrote:

Do you read what you type / write ?

Just sayin'
 
Irony cannot be held by any borders.
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 10, 2020 - 2:19am

 kcar wrote:


But people don't have to have the same opinion about an incident just because they share political opinions. This is not the USSR.

Maybe things work differently in Trumpworld. 
 
Do you read what you type / write ?

Just sayin'
BlueHeronDruid

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Location: planting flowers


Posted: Jul 9, 2020 - 3:59pm



 kcar wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

We have a dead person by way of a protest under police supervision.
 

Did the driver hit the protesters because of some animus he held towards the Black Femme Movement? Or was this a case of a reckless driver who ignored barricades and unintentionally killed a woman through his negligence?  

My hunch is the latter situation, but we don't know enough now to make a firm judgment. In my opinion, this is not a replay of the killing in Charlottesville, VA in 2017
 
Black driver in a Jag is your killer.

From the sounds of it, he was in a hurry for something.

Best try the Seattle papers for details.


"Kelete was the owner of the Jaguar XJL and was alone in the car, according to the state patrol.

A security camera on the REI building captured Kelete's car driving the wrong way up the Stewart Street I-5 exit ramp, past numerous warning signs that said “Wrong Way,” according to the charging document. Since it was an exit ramp, “a driver must make a deliberate and sharp right U-turn in order to drive southbound on I-5,” the document said.

He was traveling at freeway speeds when he first noticed the demonstrators, the document said."

R_P

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Posted: Jul 9, 2020 - 1:51pm

Drivers target Black Lives Matter protesters in 'horrifying' spate of attacks
kcar

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Posted: Jul 7, 2020 - 2:56pm



 kurtster wrote:

I offered up that same thought when I initially brought this up and the very first reaction to my thought was by our friend the dragon and he said in no uncertain terms that is was deliberate and outright murder and just like Charlottesville.  And there was a second thought supporting that.  It kinda got me leaning that way based on their certainty and information presented. It involves a BLM ish protest group and the police.  So how could this not be something deliberate, an outright act of murder ?

Now I have you agreeing with my original thought.  How can that be ?

I give up.  Go backscroll and look at the beginning.  You're all on the same side of the political aisle.  Y'all have to get your stories straight. 
 

"Y'all have to get your stories straight."

You really need to work on your attitude. 

It's not surprising that people are doing hot takes on this incident before all the details come out. The collision occurred during a BLM-related protest. Someone did intentionally drive their car into protesters in Charlotte VA in 2017. Similar collisions occurred this year during protests IIRC People in this forum and the US are very worked up. 

But people don't have to have the same opinion about an incident just because they share political opinions. This is not the USSR. Maybe things work differently in Trumpworld. 

I have to think, though, that the driver was depraved, mentally ill, or panicking when he kept driving after hitting those two women. There's no way he could have not noticed the collision. It's just not clear to me that he could have known for sure that the people on the freeway were protesters. It's possible that he assumed they were because the freeway had been closed for 19 straight days due to the BLM protests in Seattle. 

Insufficient information to form a firm opinion. We'll find out more soon enough. 
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 7, 2020 - 3:44am

 kcar wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

We have a dead person by way of a protest under police supervision.
 

Did the driver hit the protesters because of some animus he held towards the Black Femme Movement? Or was this a case of a reckless driver who ignored barricades and unintentionally killed a woman through his negligence?  

My hunch is the latter situation, but we don't know enough now to make a firm judgment. In my opinion, this is not a replay of the killing in Charlottesville, VA in 2017
 
I offered up that same thought when I initially brought this up and the very first reaction to my thought was by our friend the dragon and he said in no uncertain terms that is was deliberate and outright murder and just like Charlottesville.  And there was a second thought supporting that.  It kinda got me leaning that way based on their certainty and information presented. It involves a BLM ish protest group and the police.  So how could this not be something deliberate, an outright act of murder ?

Now I have you agreeing with my original thought.  How can that be ?

I give up.  Go backscroll and look at the beginning.  You're all on the same side of the political aisle.  Y'all have to get your stories straight. 
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jul 7, 2020 - 1:19am



 kurtster wrote:

We have a dead person by way of a protest under police supervision.
 

Did the driver hit the protesters because of some animus he held towards the Black Femme Movement? Or was this a case of a reckless driver who ignored barricades and unintentionally killed a woman through his negligence?  

My hunch is the latter situation, but we don't know enough now to make a firm judgment. In my opinion, this is not a replay of the killing in Charlottesville, VA in 2017
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 7, 2020 - 12:06am

 kcar wrote:


I have to ask: given what we know so far, how is this incident anything more than spectacle? 
 
We have a dead person by way of a protest under police supervision.
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 7, 2020 - 12:01am

 Steely_D wrote:

I live right next to Martinez, FWIW. 

Trump says these folks should be convicted and sentenced to 10 years. LAW AND ORDER!
 
I know the area as well.

Yep, lock em up.
Steely_D

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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 6, 2020 - 11:14pm



 rgio wrote:


 kurtster wrote:
 
I bet they were arrested for defacing graffiti ... 

What happened to your av ?  You look burnt out.

You need to get to a doc, STAT ... 
{#Mrgreen}
 
Kurt...sorry if I don't follow.

Assuming that the city approved the painting of the street, are you supporting someone unilaterally deciding to paint over it?  Do you assume / know that someone painted it without approval?

 
I live right next to Martinez, FWIW. 

Trump says these folks should be convicted and sentenced to 10 years. LAW AND ORDER!


R_P

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Posted: Jul 6, 2020 - 10:48pm

 kurtster wrote:
Yellow Paint Matters!
Meanwhile, a King County Sheriff’s Office deputy was placed on administrative leave after making what the Sheriff’s Office described as “concerning posts” on social media over the weekend.

Screenshots shared on social media showed a post under the name Mike Brown; the Sheriff’s Office confirmed Brown is a detective. The screenshots captured a Facebook post with an image that read “All lives splatter” — accompanied by a graphic of a vehicle running people over. “Keep your (expletive) off the road,” the graphic continued.

“We value all members of our community and are committed to serving everyone equally, with dignity and respect,” Sheriff Mitzi Johanknecht wrote in a statement Monday. “I will take swift action to thoroughly investigate when the conduct of Sheriff’s Office members fails to reflect our core values and violates Sheriff’s Office policy.”

The office is also investigating other employees who “may have participated via reactions or comments on the post,” the statement said.

kcar

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Posted: Jul 6, 2020 - 10:47pm



 kurtster wrote:

Well, there you have it.  I guess that it is more urgent to you than me.

I did say the couple should be arrested if true didn't I ?

I guess that the Martinez PD aren't looking too hard or they would have found them by now. 

They have a good license plate number to work with.  But Martinez is in the SF Bay Area ...

So what is your take on the freeway thing in Seattle ?  Hate crime ?
 

"So what is your take on the freeway thing in Seattle ? Hate crime ?"


As you put it, "I guess that it is more urgent to you than me."

As I've posted before, I don't bother with this thread very much because it focuses on the incidental and inevitable mayhem caused by impromptu protests and riots.

There are more important aspects of the protests to think about. As a piece in the NYT noted, "Black Lives Matter May Be the Largest Movement in U.S. History."  



The recent Black Lives Matter protests peaked on June 6, when half a million people turned out in nearly 550 places across the United States. That was a single day in more than a month of protests that still continue to today.

Four recent polls — including one released this week by Civis Analytics, a data science firm that works with businesses and Democratic campaigns — suggest that about 15 million to 26 million people in the United States have participated in demonstrations over the death of George Floyd and others in recent weeks.

These figures would make the recent protests the largest movement in the country’s history, according to interviews with scholars and crowd-counting experts.




I think the reasons for the protests are a far bigger and more enduring issue than looting, mayhem, etc. It's a small miracle when even organized protests occur without incident. If you focus on smashed windows, fights, in-riot shootings by and of police, etc. you are ignoring a massive sea-change in Americans' attitudes about race, oppression of Blacks, the insufficient controls on the use of violence by police, etc. 


My take on Seattle CHOP for instance: a goofy idea that failed to maintain peace and order in practice within that area of Seattle. 




No one is going to be talking about Seattle CHOP come November. BLM will be a significant issue in the presidential election and national politics for years to come. 



As for the Seattle freeway incident. Are you talking about this? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42p07roNS2Y

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/2-people-hit-by-car-on-i-5-in-downtown-seattle-during-protest/

https://www.tampabay.com/news/2020/07/04/police-2-women-hit-by-car-on-seattle-highway-amid-protest/


I doubt it's a hate crime. After skimming the Seattle Times piece, it seems to me that the driver was trying to evade blockades so he could drive on the freeway. I don't think he knew that there were protesters dancing on the freeway. He apparently swerved to avoid a crowd of people and in doing so hit two protesters. 

Dawit Kelete, the driver, is black. The protesters he struck were white. The group of protesters was called the Black Femme Movement. It seems from the article that the group's decision to dance on the freeway was not planned out in advance. It's not clear from The Seattle Times piece that Kelete knew which group was on the freeway or that there was a group on the freeway until they came into his sight. 

So I don't see this as a hate crime. I could be quite wrong but there it is. 

From the Tampa Bay Times piece: 


Officials were trying to determine the motive as well as where he got onto the interstate, which had been closed by the state patrol for more than an hour before the protesters were hit. Mead said they suspect Kelete drove the wrong way on a ramp. Trooper Rick Johnson said the driver went through a barrier that closed the freeway.

Troopers did not know whether it was a targeted attack, but impairment was not considered a factor, Mead said.



From the Seattle Times piece: from what I can tell, the I-5 is the "insterstate" and the "freeway" in both news articles:


State Patrol had shut down the interstate 19 nights in a row in response to protests, said Capt. Mead, who oversees the agency’s district that includes King County. For weeks, troopers operated in response to protesters’ movements, shutting down a stretch of the interstate when it looked as if protesters would enter the roadway.





I have to ask: given what we know so far, how is this incident anything more than spectacle? 


kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 6, 2020 - 10:06pm

 kcar wrote:
How 'bout that Google thingy! Yes, the Black Lives Matter mural was painted with the permission and cooperation of the city government of Martinez, CA. 
 
Well, there you have it.  I guess that it is more urgent to you than me.

I did say the couple should be arrested if true didn't I ?

I guess that the Martinez PD aren't looking too hard or they would have found them by now. 

They have a good license plate number to work with.  But Martinez is in the SF Bay Area ...

So what is your take on the freeway thing in Seattle ?  Hate crime ?
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