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kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jul 27, 2020 - 7:17pm



 KarmaKarma wrote:


 black321 wrote:

Why Do Democrats Defend Disorder?

My party always stood for principled dissent, not lawless chaos.

By Ted Van DykJuly 26, 2020 2:12 pm ET


    Democrats’ response to the continuing round of urban disturbances makes one think that, yet again, they will snatch electoral defeat from the jaws of victory.

    After President Trump’s dispatch of federal officers to protect federal facilities in Portland, Ore., some Democratic politicians characterized the officers as “storm troopers” or “secret agents” bent on sending “peaceful protesters” to concentration camps. I watched attacks on the Portland federal building on television as they were happening. The officers were uniformed and clearly identified. The perpetrators weren’t peaceful protesters but black-clad thugs using hammers and baseball bats to damage the building. Others attempted to set fire to it.

    Local and state officials objected to the federal presence, saying it “made things worse” in the city. On the same evening, a group in Seattle paraded to a police precinct headquarters, breaking shop windows along the way. Several officers were injured. In New York, Mayor Bill de Blasio was forced to evict occupiers from City Hall Plaza.

    Meantime, violent crime is on the rise in cities around the country. Chicago has been experiencing a murder plague visited on mostly minority residents over many months. It seems incredible that elected Democrats are supporting initiatives to defund the police, releasing prisoners from local jails, and even removing law-enforcement officers from schools.

    Democrats should forget President Trump for a second.
    The current round of violence isn’t being undertaken by civil-justice or other reformers but by radicals using Jacobin street-violence tactics. The idea is to provoke confrontation and violence with constituted authority so as to discredit it, counting on a few gullible local residents to see police as oppressors. The pretense of peaceful protest is rapidly disappearing. Deaths, serious injuries, arson, public and private property damage, and economic dislocation have resulted.

    The longer this continues, the greater demand to see it stopped will grow among wage-earning families, small-business people, homeowners, taxpayers and voters. Families of public safety and emergency personnel already have been alienated.

    Any president dating back to Franklin D. Roosevelt would have taken action under these circumstances. First, there would be denunciation of the violence. Then the president would ask local officials if they needed federal help. If the answer was yes, it would be sent immediately. If the answer was no but disorder continued, the president would no doubt dispatch officers to protect federal buildings and otherwise restore order as authorized by the Constitution. He would know that the country at large looked to the president as the ultimate guarantor of public safety.

    I can’t imagine Joe Biden, as vice president or a senator, hesitating to denounce lawlessness. Nor can I imagine past congressional, state and local leaders condoning such destruction. Democrats have always supported dissent, not disorder.

    Many of Mr. Trump’s policies deserve criticism, but this isn’t one of them. Democrats are presenting a pro-chaos caricature of themselves, which will discredit them with the public if they maintain it. Especially at the local level, elected officials must recognize that a majority of Americans want to live normal lives without threat of violence or harm.

    Mr. Van Dyk was active in Democratic national policy and politics for 40 years. He is author of “Heroes, Hacks and Fools” (University of Washington Press, 2007).

     

    Good article!

    The Democrat politicians have gone all-in on these protests, assuming the violence & destruction will hurt Trump.  Unfortunately for them, just the opposite is occurring.  Maybe not among the liberal population of Seattle & Portland, however everyone else is appalled.  And they don't want that shitshow in their communities.  Too late.  These memories and the abundance of video evidence produced every night  won't be forgotten before the voters arrive at the ballot boxes.  And now I'm reading that maybe mayor Ted is having second thoughts...


    The world's sh*tt*est violin, KK: and it's playing for you. 


    Maybe you should lurch your way to Twitter and stay there: 

    https://twitter.com/search?q=%...
     

    We'll flush twice just to make sure you get there! AMF!

    KarmaKarma

    KarmaKarma Avatar



    Posted: Jul 27, 2020 - 6:59pm

    You're on your own Seattle businesses!  Bonne chance!
    KarmaKarma

    KarmaKarma Avatar



    Posted: Jul 27, 2020 - 6:57pm



     black321 wrote:

    Why Do Democrats Defend Disorder?

    My party always stood for principled dissent, not lawless chaos.

    By Ted Van DykJuly 26, 2020 2:12 pm ET


      Democrats’ response to the continuing round of urban disturbances makes one think that, yet again, they will snatch electoral defeat from the jaws of victory.

      After President Trump’s dispatch of federal officers to protect federal facilities in Portland, Ore., some Democratic politicians characterized the officers as “storm troopers” or “secret agents” bent on sending “peaceful protesters” to concentration camps. I watched attacks on the Portland federal building on television as they were happening. The officers were uniformed and clearly identified. The perpetrators weren’t peaceful protesters but black-clad thugs using hammers and baseball bats to damage the building. Others attempted to set fire to it.

      Local and state officials objected to the federal presence, saying it “made things worse” in the city. On the same evening, a group in Seattle paraded to a police precinct headquarters, breaking shop windows along the way. Several officers were injured. In New York, Mayor Bill de Blasio was forced to evict occupiers from City Hall Plaza.

      Meantime, violent crime is on the rise in cities around the country. Chicago has been experiencing a murder plague visited on mostly minority residents over many months. It seems incredible that elected Democrats are supporting initiatives to defund the police, releasing prisoners from local jails, and even removing law-enforcement officers from schools.

      Democrats should forget President Trump for a second.
      The current round of violence isn’t being undertaken by civil-justice or other reformers but by radicals using Jacobin street-violence tactics. The idea is to provoke confrontation and violence with constituted authority so as to discredit it, counting on a few gullible local residents to see police as oppressors. The pretense of peaceful protest is rapidly disappearing. Deaths, serious injuries, arson, public and private property damage, and economic dislocation have resulted.

      The longer this continues, the greater demand to see it stopped will grow among wage-earning families, small-business people, homeowners, taxpayers and voters. Families of public safety and emergency personnel already have been alienated.

      Any president dating back to Franklin D. Roosevelt would have taken action under these circumstances. First, there would be denunciation of the violence. Then the president would ask local officials if they needed federal help. If the answer was yes, it would be sent immediately. If the answer was no but disorder continued, the president would no doubt dispatch officers to protect federal buildings and otherwise restore order as authorized by the Constitution. He would know that the country at large looked to the president as the ultimate guarantor of public safety.

      I can’t imagine Joe Biden, as vice president or a senator, hesitating to denounce lawlessness. Nor can I imagine past congressional, state and local leaders condoning such destruction. Democrats have always supported dissent, not disorder.

      Many of Mr. Trump’s policies deserve criticism, but this isn’t one of them. Democrats are presenting a pro-chaos caricature of themselves, which will discredit them with the public if they maintain it. Especially at the local level, elected officials must recognize that a majority of Americans want to live normal lives without threat of violence or harm.

      Mr. Van Dyk was active in Democratic national policy and politics for 40 years. He is author of “Heroes, Hacks and Fools” (University of Washington Press, 2007).

       

      Good article!

      The Democrat politicians have gone all-in on these protests, assuming the violence & destruction will hurt Trump.  Unfortunately for them, just the opposite is occurring.  Maybe not among the liberal population of Seattle & Portland, however everyone else is appalled.  And they don't want that shitshow in their communities.  Too late.  These memories and the abundance of video evidence produced every night  won't be forgotten before the voters arrive at the ballot boxes.  And now I'm reading that maybe mayor Ted is having second thoughts...
      R_P

      R_P Avatar

      Gender: Male


      Posted: Jul 27, 2020 - 2:10pm

      Trump crackdown on anti-racism White House protesters ‘unprovoked’
      kcar

      kcar Avatar



      Posted: Jul 27, 2020 - 12:41pm

      Revealed: oil giants help fund powerful police groups in top US cities

      Investigation portrays fossil fuel industry as common enemy in struggle for racial and environmental justice in America



      Big corporations accused of driving environmental and health inequalities in black and brown communities through toxic and climate-changing pollution are also funding powerful police groups in major US cities, according to a new investigation.

      Some of America’s largest oil and gas companies, private utilities, and financial institutions that bankroll fossil fuels also back police foundations – opaque private entities that raise money to pay for training, weapons, equipment, and surveillance technology for departments across the US.

      The investigation by the Public Accountability Initiative, a nonprofit corporate and government accountability research institute, and its research database project LittleSis, details how police foundations in cities such as Seattle, Chicago, Washington, New Orleans and Salt Lake City are partially funded by household names such as Chevron, Shell and Wells Fargo.

      Police foundations are industry groups that provide substantial funds to local departments, yet, as nonprofits, avoid much public scrutiny.

      The investigation details how firms linked to fossil fuels also sponsor events and galas that celebrate the police, while some have senior staff serving as directors of police foundations.

      ...


      The report included such companies as:


      • Chevron, a multinational oil and gas company, that is among the world’s top 25 polluters. In the US, it owns two of the worst six benzene-emitting refineries, according to the EPA. Chevron is a corporate sponsor of the New Orleans police and justice foundation, as well as a board member of the Houston police foundation and sponsor of the Houston mounted patrol. It also donates and serves on the board of Salt Lake City police foundation.

      • Shell is one of the biggest fossil fuel companies in the world, and is currently building a huge ethane cracker plant near Pittsburgh, which advocates warn could turn Appalachia into the next so-called Cancer Alley – a corridor of Louisiana refineries, where Shell is also a major polluter. Shell is a “featured partner” of the New Orleans police foundation and a sponsor of the Houston police’s mounted patrol.

      • The nation’s largest oil refining company Marathon Petroleum has long been accused of generating pollution that disproportionately affects the health of black and brown communities. Its refinery in Detroit has received 15 violations from the state environmental regulator since 2013. Marathon’s security coordinator is on the board of the Detroit police foundation, and sponsors numerous events.

      ...


      But critics argue police departments are already overfunded. Nationwide about $100bn is spent on policing each year, and cities hand over 20% to 45% of their general budgets to police departments, according to advocacy group the Center for Popular Democracy Action.

      Police foundation money is additional, and this money is much harder to trace since they are not subject to the same transparency rules as public entities such as law enforcement agencies.

      Aside from fossil fuel firms, utility companies were also highlighted in the report as playing a dual role as polluters and backers of police foundations.

      America’s 100 largest utilities accounted for 80% of measurable air emissions, according to a 2019 report. Low-income African American communities disproportionately suffer
      health problems such as respiratory and cardiovascular disease, and face a higher risk of death from the fine particulate emissions that come from power plants, according to researchers at the University of Washington and Stanford.






      sirdroseph

      sirdroseph Avatar

      Location: Not here, I tell you wat
      Gender: Male


      Posted: Jul 27, 2020 - 12:28pm

      black321

      black321 Avatar

      Location: An earth without maps
      Gender: Male


      Posted: Jul 27, 2020 - 9:14am

      Why Do Democrats Defend Disorder?

      My party always stood for principled dissent, not lawless chaos.

      By Ted Van DykJuly 26, 2020 2:12 pm ET


        Democrats’ response to the continuing round of urban disturbances makes one think that, yet again, they will snatch electoral defeat from the jaws of victory.

        After President Trump’s dispatch of federal officers to protect federal facilities in Portland, Ore., some Democratic politicians characterized the officers as “storm troopers” or “secret agents” bent on sending “peaceful protesters” to concentration camps. I watched attacks on the Portland federal building on television as they were happening. The officers were uniformed and clearly identified. The perpetrators weren’t peaceful protesters but black-clad thugs using hammers and baseball bats to damage the building. Others attempted to set fire to it.

        Local and state officials objected to the federal presence, saying it “made things worse” in the city. On the same evening, a group in Seattle paraded to a police precinct headquarters, breaking shop windows along the way. Several officers were injured. In New York, Mayor Bill de Blasio was forced to evict occupiers from City Hall Plaza.

        Meantime, violent crime is on the rise in cities around the country. Chicago has been experiencing a murder plague visited on mostly minority residents over many months. It seems incredible that elected Democrats are supporting initiatives to defund the police, releasing prisoners from local jails, and even removing law-enforcement officers from schools.

        Democrats should forget President Trump for a second.
        The current round of violence isn’t being undertaken by civil-justice or other reformers but by radicals using Jacobin street-violence tactics. The idea is to provoke confrontation and violence with constituted authority so as to discredit it, counting on a few gullible local residents to see police as oppressors. The pretense of peaceful protest is rapidly disappearing. Deaths, serious injuries, arson, public and private property damage, and economic dislocation have resulted.

        The longer this continues, the greater demand to see it stopped will grow among wage-earning families, small-business people, homeowners, taxpayers and voters. Families of public safety and emergency personnel already have been alienated.

        Any president dating back to Franklin D. Roosevelt would have taken action under these circumstances. First, there would be denunciation of the violence. Then the president would ask local officials if they needed federal help. If the answer was yes, it would be sent immediately. If the answer was no but disorder continued, the president would no doubt dispatch officers to protect federal buildings and otherwise restore order as authorized by the Constitution. He would know that the country at large looked to the president as the ultimate guarantor of public safety.

        I can’t imagine Joe Biden, as vice president or a senator, hesitating to denounce lawlessness. Nor can I imagine past congressional, state and local leaders condoning such destruction. Democrats have always supported dissent, not disorder.

        Many of Mr. Trump’s policies deserve criticism, but this isn’t one of them. Democrats are presenting a pro-chaos caricature of themselves, which will discredit them with the public if they maintain it. Especially at the local level, elected officials must recognize that a majority of Americans want to live normal lives without threat of violence or harm.

        Mr. Van Dyk was active in Democratic national policy and politics for 40 years. He is author of “Heroes, Hacks and Fools” (University of Washington Press, 2007).

        sirdroseph

        sirdroseph Avatar

        Location: Not here, I tell you wat
        Gender: Male


        Posted: Jul 25, 2020 - 5:52am



         Ohmsen wrote:


         sirdroseph wrote:
         kurtster wrote:

        Right now you couldn't pay me enough money to set foot in NYC with or without Trump being there at the same time. 

        Or Portland or Seattle or Chicago or ...  I do not have a death wish.

         
        I have avoided large metropolitan areas and large gatherings of people for over 20 years now for various reasons.  I think large groups of people congested in small areas is a bad idea in all context for all humans so I avoid those areas like the plague.   Basically we have been avoiding people way before it was cool to do so.
        {#Cowboy}


        Seems, you've been on some kind of medieval battlefield before, just like I must have been. I became aware of this in my early 30's after watching the movie 'Braveheart', not being able to get any deep sleep for 2-3 days after watching it at the Movies. Nightmares of me in the midst of battlefields instead, in a half-sleep state continued to haunt me for some weeks. 

        Quite immediately, I realized that I must have been in some such scenarios before... perhaps not in this life.

        This experience explained to me, why I have always hated to be in crowds, even in my youth, and why, in crowds I've always felt this fighter-flight syndrom. Muscles tense like razor-blades underneath my arms, hands sweating, and a general unease, always looking out, always being 'ready to fight'.

        This basically hasn't changed until today, even some 30 yrs on... it only weakened a bit, since my home town is getting more and more overcrowded by tourists. Only feeling some distaste anymore, I still have to make my way through the crowds in town today, just for grocery shopping, or to get a pizza, or some beer. 


         



         

        Interesting perspective.   My belief comes mostly from the angle of human behavior.  I believe that the larger number of people involved in any activity dilutes purity of purpose and becomes corrupted by those with agendas and a mob mentality sets in on the rest.  This idea can be manifested in any setting whether it be political, day to day living and even entertainment.  Watch Freddie Mercury or Hitler work a crowd (they use similar methods).  In regards to the plight of cities when people are pushed together and congested in large number they become cold, cynical and many desperate as the haves and have nots exist in such close proximity ergo you have increased crime and violence towards one another.  This increased crime and violence perpetuates a vicious cycle of law enforcement dealing with heinous situations so frequently they themselves become desensitized and cynical in their approach toward the public and we are no longer looked at as constituents, but as a danger.   Due to many reasons; legacy of oppression; systemic racism; lack of opportunity; degradation of the family; loss of hope; violent culture brought on by lack of family and hopelessness; list goes on and on the majority of these faces who commit these crimes in urban settings are people of color and this inevitably leads to profiling and outright bitter racism by some of the police and the cycle continues.   Then you throw in the fact that the most passionate and large protest occur in these cities which attract subversive outsiders with different agendas of anarchy and you have a wonderful cocktail that I would not bring a child around.
        And of course there is the point of business, would you start a small business in an American city?  Naw, I'm good.
             I do believe it has gotten to the point in some places to where all law enforcement should vacate and give the people what they want.   This will quickly solve all problems as the protesters and unfortunate citizens of these areas realize and feel the full brunt of all of the bad people amongst them as they turn on them because there is no one else there to protest and no one there to protect them.   There will be blood, but in the long run it will hopefully promote an atmosphere that will build a better society as they realize that police brutality is just a symptom of a much bigger problem and a lot of the blame comes from the citizens themselves.  In summation I would surmise that cities suck and I genuinely feel sympathy and concern of those that still reside in them.  Some people may disagree with this and that is fine, but Snake Plissken awaits......

        KarmaKarma

        KarmaKarma Avatar



        Posted: Jul 24, 2020 - 8:42pm



         Steely_D wrote:
         


        Oh really?
          Do read all the illuminating comments.

        Keep on posting fake news!  lmao
        Steely_D

        Steely_D Avatar

        Location: Biscayne Bay
        Gender: Male


        Posted: Jul 24, 2020 - 8:08pm


        Check out this.


        sirdroseph

        sirdroseph Avatar

        Location: Not here, I tell you wat
        Gender: Male


        Posted: Jul 24, 2020 - 12:07pm

         kurtster wrote:

        Right now you couldn't pay me enough money to set foot in NYC with or without Trump being there at the same time. 

        Or Portland or Seattle or Chicago or ...  I do not have a death wish.

         
        I have avoided large metropolitan areas and large gatherings of people for over 20 years now for various reasons.  I think large groups of people congested in small areas is a bad idea in all context for all humans so I avoid those areas like the plague.   Basically we have been avoiding people way before it was cool to do so.{#Cowboy}
        R_P

        R_P Avatar

        Gender: Male


        Posted: Jul 24, 2020 - 10:09am

        NYPD Disappeared Black Lives Matter Protesters Into Detention For Days at a Time. Lawmakers Want to End the Practice.
        rgio

        rgio Avatar

        Location: West Jersey
        Gender: Male


        Posted: Jul 24, 2020 - 5:44am



         kurtster wrote:

        Right now you couldn't pay me enough money to set foot in NYC with or without Trump being there at the same time. 

        Or Portland or Seattle or Chicago or ...  I do not have a death wish.

         
        Kurt...you're a good soldier.

        Our racist President, who can't say Black Lives Matter, has now made things worse by selling fear as a way to distract from his absolute failure on COVID.

        Here are the details on crime.  Be sure to play around with some of the details / dropdowns.  It's a pretty cool site.   https://citycrimestats.com/cov...

        Yes, there are definitely some spikes in cities around BLM (especially Minneapolis), but in total...crime is down this year.   BTW - NYC is the safest it's been in the past 5 years.

        Staying home out of fear right now is appropriate, but the fear should be the "hoax" virus that was ignored for 6 months, not the fear of violence the White House is selling.


        kurtster

        kurtster Avatar

        Location: where fear is not a virtue
        Gender: Male


        Posted: Jul 23, 2020 - 11:38pm

         kcar wrote:

        The best advice I can give you, though: never hang out with Trump on 5th Avenue. He'd take that shot in a heartbeat, just for kicks.
         
        Right now you couldn't pay me enough money to set foot in NYC with or without Trump being there at the same time. 

        Or Portland or Seattle or Chicago or ...  I do not have a death wish.

        kcar

        kcar Avatar



        Posted: Jul 23, 2020 - 11:31pm



         kurtster wrote:

        I support Trump and have sores on my nose from wearing masks.  But then again, you believe in The "Trumpworld©" where we are all the same.
         

        I believe in America before Trump took a dump on it in all his criminal, incompetent and narcissistic glory. Glad you're happy with the state of the country right now. I'm amazed by your diehard refusal to accept that Trump's isn't even the Worst President Ever (calling him president is insanely ludicrous).

        The best advice I can give you, though: never hang out with Trump on 5th Avenue. He'd take that shot in a heartbeat, just for kicks.
        kurtster

        kurtster Avatar

        Location: where fear is not a virtue
        Gender: Male


        Posted: Jul 23, 2020 - 11:27pm

         Steely_D wrote:


         kurtster wrote:

        Hell yes ! 

        I have just about paid off my credit cards.  I could be debt free with a couple of mouse clicks right now.

        And the last take on my credit report was 794.

        Thanks Donnie !!!
         

        I always think of that as a bigger question, not just about money. True, with a “businessman” in the White House, I suspect that is inevitably the focus.

        But, as well know in our hearts, it’s the experience of our lives, the things we do/did that make up our lives. Not what we own/have, but how we spend our days is, really, how we spend our lives.

        So. Are we more honorable, thoughtful, kind, supportive than we were? Is the experience of our being alive more entertaining, more fulfilling, more joyous and hopeful?

        Or are we more angry, selfish, mistrustful, and afraid than we were four years ago?

        Even if we can afford more things.
         
        Maybe you but not me.  Being debt free does not mean I can afford more things.  It just means that I have less to worry about, which is a great thing.

        I will still have to work until I die to supplement what social security provides.  Unless or until someone dies and leaves me some money or I get the 6 winning numbers.
        kurtster

        kurtster Avatar

        Location: where fear is not a virtue
        Gender: Male


        Posted: Jul 23, 2020 - 11:19pm

         kcar wrote:


         kurtster wrote:

        Yeah.  I'm going back to work next week. 

        It will have the same feel that going back to work for the first time after finishing up my cancer treatment did, being highly vulnerable to selfish and stupid people and a general lack for personal hygiene in the general populace.
         

        "selfish and stupid people and a general lack for personal hygiene in the general populace."
        The ones who won't wear masks or practice social distancing? They tend to support Trump FWIW. 
         
        I support Trump and have sores on my nose from wearing masks.  But then again, you believe in The "Trumpworld©" where we are all the same.
        KarmaKarma

        KarmaKarma Avatar



        Posted: Jul 23, 2020 - 11:12pm

        Moments ago in Peoples Republik of Portland...


        Where would we be without the Internet and free speech?
        kcar

        kcar Avatar



        Posted: Jul 23, 2020 - 11:09pm



         kurtster wrote:

        Yeah.  I'm going back to work next week. 

        It will have the same feel that going back to work for the first time after finishing up my cancer treatment did, being highly vulnerable to selfish and stupid people and a general lack for personal hygiene in the general populace.
         

        "selfish and stupid people and a general lack for personal hygiene in the general populace."


        The ones who won't wear masks or practice social distancing? They tend to support Trump FWIW. 
        kurtster

        kurtster Avatar

        Location: where fear is not a virtue
        Gender: Male


        Posted: Jul 23, 2020 - 11:03pm

         kcar wrote:


        Super for you. But the rest of the country's in the toilet.

        And watch out for that coronavirus! Again!
         
        Yeah.  I'm going back to work next week. 

        It will have the same feel that going back to work for the first time after finishing up my cancer treatment did, being highly vulnerable to selfish and stupid people and a general lack for personal hygiene in the general populace.
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