rgio wrote:
 
rgio, you're being extraordinarily kind. 

 rgio wrote: 
You're acting like we've been down a similar road before with similar circumstances, that there is a blueprint or plan for what we are supposed to be doing.  

That is how the bureaucracy was handling it by doing it "properly" by the book.  There is no book for how to deal with this.  Yet you pass judgement as if there is one that applies.

 rgio wrote:
 
Indeed.

 kurtster wrote:
 
Anyone looking at this situation who can suggest decisive action, "fixes", and that anything has been "done properly",  is living someplace I've never heard of, let alone visited.

Amazing is an understatement.

 steeler wrote: 
You, the great defender of the unjustly maligned Federal Bureaucracy.  Yeah, Trump saw that there was a problem and fixed it, immediately, in an end run around your beloved bureaucracy and put them in their place and got them the hell out of the way.  He didn't play ball.  He just did it.  He didn't whine to Congress to get it fixed like he was supposed to do.  He just did it.  He is fixing all the broken shit in your beloved bureaucracy without going through the proper Beltway channels.  We'd still be waiting if he went to Congress to get it done properly.

Y'all are collectively amazing.

some intelligent people are working non-stop to bring us the best possible solutions

Dr. David Liu is connected and worthy to follow (on twitter)

For those who missed the earlier thread: Niclosamide (Niclocide, Fenasal, Phenasal) is an FDA-approved anti-parasitic drug with much more potent activity against #SARSCoV2 (0.28 uM) than hydroxychloroquine or other drugs I've seen, and lower toxicity.(1/3) https://biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.20.999730v1.full.pdf

 kurtster wrote:
 
Testing is still not readily or even sufficiently available. The 45-day test is expected to be made available March 30.  A significant advancement but it does not erase the fact that testing has not been sufficiently available for more than 2 months since the US had its first cases. 

The CDC is part of the Trump administration. As President, he is responsible for its failures (and its successes), as he is responsible for the failures (or successes) of any federal agency. 

The first glimmer of hope here in Germany that the curve might be flattening.  We have been in isolation for three weeks. The first week was a week where the national mindset changed, and even skeptics finally fell in line. 

Believe me,

SOCIAL DISTANCING WORKS.  DO IT NOW!

 

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
 
I have to head to work but I did mean the USA. The thing I read and I'm late so I can't cite it, maybe it was just wikipedia? can't remember. Anyway. The WHO test is generally provided for countries without the wherewithal to make their own, but we could have gotten some from them and probably did. That's probably (I didn't study the article too closely) where we got the few tests we've been administering. But other countries typically want to make their own, not out of national pride, per se, but just because they can. It isn't (apparently) the Most Difficult Challenge The World Has Faced Since The Apollo Program. So we made one, tested it in January, it worked, and then the wheels fell off our manufacturing scheme (again, that info is out there and I'll dig it up later if no one else has) and we've been trying to get going ever since. 

THIS test, the 45-minute one, might be different from the one CDC tested in January, I don't know. Several companies were/are racing to develop tests.

 kurtster wrote:
 

NO SHIT
 
When you lead with something like this, the rest of your post goes ignored, you know that, right? I'm sure there's plenty more to quibble with but this right here is THE ENTIRE POINT.

We had a test. A. Test. It was tested. It worked. The failure came in the production. Scaling up. We stumbled and weren't able to actually manufacture more tests. That's what I clearly said and you deliberately (again) misread it into "everyone had access to testing." I don't know why you're arguing this point because I'M AGREEING WITH YOU that we were able to create a better test in record time. And then we dropped on the floor or something. 

 sirdroseph wrote:
 

Your spittle flecks are misdirected. I was defending the author and only criticizing people who would share the post and claim the author was a Harvard physician or whatever the gist was, rather than just say "this is from a nurse who wrote it for her friends but I think it's pretty good."

 kurtster wrote:
 

Kurt,

To rephrase your thoughts on this thread recently, the corporate oil company fired half the gas station attendants because there were too many of them standing around.  When we all needed gas, the company executives called the station operators "what the hell is going on" (after several weeks of denying that lines existed and telling everyone in line that the lines would magically go away).  When the station operators responded "we need more attendants", the oil company stood up at a press conference and said, "we're taking over because the station operators can't do their jobs".  

You can't blame the CDC for being ill-prepared AND state that your administration is working to fix Obama H1N1 problems when every budget proposal under this President initially slashed funding for the CDC.  The budget submitted by the WH on Feb 10 of this year for 2021 (after the test issue above) has a $700M reduction for the CDC (note: this is after the travel ban that you suggested elsewhere was a visionary move by the administration).   Congress eventually returned the funding in prior years, but you can't blame the CDC for not being ready when you need them after spending 3 years complaining they exist and attempting to cut their funding.

The administration is completely lost.  We're fighting a war is the new slogan.  Is Trump a wartime President now?  If so, why is he leaving everything to his Colonels to figure out?  NY militia, you need guns...negotiate with the gun manufacturers and get what you can.  Bullets...you guys should get those too.  Uniforms?  We'll tell the uniform companies on our next phone call they need to do whatever it takes.

The administration needs to stop worrying about corporate money right now and fight the virus.  The corporate stuff can wait a week or two.  The biggest problem that our "business" POTUS can't or won't understand is that corporate entities can't commit to building things (that they normally don't make...like ventilators)  that they then have to compete to sell.  The federal government needs to tell specific companies....build us 500,000 ventilators in a month and we'll buy every single one of them for $XXX.   Companies want to help, but the President is making it impossible for good business people to do so.

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote: 
My focus is on what is going on here in the USA.  I cannot speak in any informed manner about any other part of the world and will not pretend to.  To speak in broad generalities about how to deal with this virus is not meaningful.  There is no one size fits all response for this throughout the world.  I'll rely on people like you to keep me informed on what is going on in their / your corners of the world.  You are my eyes on the ground over there.

Yes, it was the CDC who called all of the shots on the testing.  Their initial test kits failed because of an unreliable test reagent and they steadfastly refused to let anyone else get involved until Trump took that problem on and made the change to let private companies get involved.  They would still be making the tests if Trump didn't act.  They sent these known to be faulty kits into the field anyway.  It was because of their inbred protectionist bureaucracy that we had all of the delays in getting reliable tests in the field to begin with.

The CDC debacle is what led Trump to put Pence in charge of things.

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
 

You are correct, sir.

geez guys, there is a lot of snark going on.. Not really the time for it, is it?  

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
 

Yea I am sorry you went to such great lengths and that is all you could find wrong with it.  I know you are disappointed.  And I clearly did not take credit for or claim or assign any authorship at all.  

 The most important thing about this "theory" is that whether scientist can sign off on every detail as being factual based upon this virus or not, if this form of communication incites much more people on a mass scale to engage in proper behavior than thousands of scientist with their droning data  then in essence isn't her message much more important than the scientist who almost always come to the conclusion that we really don't know yet with an eye glazed over smaller audience? 

 kurtster wrote: 
  he didn't say in the USA or even mean that.. I am pretty sure he meant other western countries where the outbreak has hit. The US decided to make their own kit AFAIK.. and ran into problems. Just one mistake among others. 

 ScottFromWyoming wrote: 
No everyone did not have access to testing weeks ago in the USA.  That is patently false.  It still takes a doctor's approval to get tested.  The current tests used in hospitals just became widely available last weekend unless you can show me otherwise.

And the WHO story about offering tests is a lie.  They were also not even tested for use in the USA nor have they yet to my knowledge.  You also need to dig a little deeper into your misconception about Trump's alleged dismantling of the Pandemic group.  You'll come up short on that one, too.

And no I'm not whining about the turnaround time of my test, at least not like how you are trying to make it out to be.  I am totally grateful that I got the test.  I went into the hospital fucked up and was likely to be admitted anyway.  But the conditions I was kept in would have been much different and less demanding on the staff and hospital in general.  I might have been sent home a day or two earlier.  Who knows at this point.  They kept treating me for the whole time I was there with some major shit IV antibiotics and other fun stuff.  In all of my incarcerations of which there have been many over the years, this was the first time I was ever in a hurry to get out of the joint.  I've always been grateful to actually get in and get treated properly and leave gracefully and thankfully.  I love my nurses and do everything I can to make their work with me as pleasant as possible.  They are the ones who do all of the work and make the doctors look good.  I try to get them to be silly and laugh as they go about their grim duties.  The nurses used to fight over who was going to get me back when this all started 11 some odd years ago.  My chemo sessions lasted a week at a time so there was plenty of opportunities for things to go wrong or for people to be just grumpy and having a bad day.  They were there for me and I was there to do everything I could to make their job easier and fun if possible.

This time was different.  The system is not working as intended.  Like I said, I'm in an oncology / hematology office every other week and see changes happen in real time and know why and what works and what doesn't.  These are all quality people who know their stuff backwards and forwards in their sleep and they are having difficulty keeping up with all of the changing contingencies.  The first night on the floor, one of my nurses from my very first chemo 11 years ago popped her head in the door to see if it was me and say hi !  She was loaned from her regular floor that night by chance and saw my name on the board and wondered if it was me.  We chatted for about two minutes before she had to either gown up or get out.  She left me a nice note and when things calm down, I'll catch up with her.  Right now, no one gets in unless its for a child, or an end of life situation.  Spouses don't get in for anything except for an end of life thing.  And regarding Tiffany, my nurse.  I do not believe in coincidences anymore.  Haven't for sure since my cancer started.  Maybe it was for her to see someone she knew who went through Hell and back was still alive and that what she was doing still had some good outcomes, because most don't in their work.  They need to be cheered up and revitalized to keep doing what they are doing no matter how difficult it gets.  Everything is for a reason.  You just have to be willing to accept them when you see them.  Or not.  Free will and obstinance can be a bitch at times.

Well, stepping back a bit, this pandemic is testing a lot of countries' cultural values. Trump is just an expression of one side of US culture and you have to admit he does have a lot of adherents. We here in Germany seem to have been hit by the (usually veiled) German arrogance that organization and functioning systems will keep this thing under control. Well they haven't.

We are now in pretty tight lock-down. Bavaria has a curfew. We here in BW have avoided it for now and judging by what I see, there has been a sea-change in public opinion. Apart from shopping for food and medicine, no one is going out. People are walking out in the fields but keeping a respectful distance of 10m from each other. Parties are now via Skype (and strangely enough a lot of fun!!)

Italy seems to have got knocked by a combination of factors, an ageing population, a particularly virulent strain, tight family connections to the wider family etc. I think this might be one of the factors that has led to such high mortality there. In Germany, the old are as sad and lonely as ever.. but they are not getting sick for that very reason.. swings and roundabouts.

If the US follows what has happened here, there will be a similar change in public opinion and enough people will self-isolate for the time needed to flatten the curve. But it takes time and a lot of communication. If the climate debate is any measure, changing some people's attitudes is going to be a really hard call. But change they must.

 

 kurtster wrote:
 
I'm actually not. You're not making a point that anyone's debating: shorter turnaround times are better. I haven't blamed Trump for any of it but I will if you want me to. Because he fucking dismantled the system we had in place to deal with this crisis and now you're whining about a slow turnaround on your test? Everyone else had access to decent (same day results) testing weeks ago. Ours could have been the unfortunate victim of several stumbles and that's why ours is still several days away. I don't know and I'm not judging, but: Who gives a flying buttered fuck if it takes 45 minutes to reveal the result if the system to interpret and act on the results is still taking days? I'm not saying that it is, but you're saying this 45-minute test is a one of the Great Human Achievements but the WHO tests don't take 60 hours to show results... whatever the holdup was in your case {probably} won't go away simply because the chemistry works faster.