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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » COVID-19 Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 176, 177, 178 ... 395, 396, 397  Next
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black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 29, 2021 - 9:13am

 sirdroseph wrote:

FDA Admits Covid-19 Vaccine Worse Than Illness

 
 

A potentially fatal risk of coronavirus vaccines has been known for decades. It’s called antibody dependent enhancement (ADE). In simple terms, because of the way some viral antibodies work, they may actually backfire on the person when they subsequently encounter the wild virus. Non-neutralizing antibodies may enable the virus to enter the cells or the immune response may be skewed in other ways.

This is the reason why there has never been a coronavirus vaccine before. When they tried developing coronavirus vaccines in the past, the test animals seemed to develop robust antibodies but when they were challenged with the wild virus, they got sick and died. This stopped the vaccine development in its tracks. This adverse reaction has been also seen with Dengue Virus, Ebola Virus, HIV, and RSV vaccines well.

The clinical trials for the Covid-19 vaccines2 were much too short to do proper and complete animal testing; the quick move to human trials, and to Emergency Use Authorization (not approval) of the vaccine, means that the global population will be used as the test animals in this experiment. The FDA, referring to it euphemistically as “vaccine-enhanced disease”, stated as much in their briefing document where they acknowledged that ADE will more likely be seen over time, following authorization or even after licensure, as vaccine immunity begins to wane.

Since ADE could potentially take months to years to occur in the various populations and demographics around the world, we may have a looming global disaster yet to come. One microbiologist has referred to it as a “ticking time bomb”.

Not only is this risk being ignored but, so too, is halacha (Jewish law).3




The Problem of Antibody-Dependent Enhancement




Sorry, but that's a BS title of an article from 2020 before we had most vaccines.

At this point the clinical and real world evidence points to this not being a concern; the vaccine still provides good protection against severe illness. But ADE risks over time remains unknown, albeit a low risk. 


ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 29, 2021 - 9:11am

 sirdroseph wrote:

Link fixed. The headline is certainly alarming. The text seems highly speculative, however.

==================

Not all vaccines cause ADE– ADE typically happens spontaneously after recovering naturally (especially notorious in dengue), some specific events have to happen, apparently. So if ADE becomes a thing with Covid, is your guy freaked about ADE in the millions of people who've had it and recovered? Nah, that's no fun.

Can the new COVID-19 vaccines cause ADE?

Neither COVID-19 disease nor the new COVID-19 vaccines have shown evidence of causing ADE. People infected with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, have not been likely to develop ADE upon repeat exposure. This is true of other coronaviruses as well. Likewise, studies of vaccines in the laboratory with animals or in the clinical trials in people have not found evidence of ADE.


sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 29, 2021 - 8:23am

FDA Admits Covid-19 Vaccine Worse Than Illness

 
 

A potentially fatal risk of coronavirus vaccines has been known for decades. It’s called antibody dependent enhancement (ADE). In simple terms, because of the way some viral antibodies work, they may actually backfire on the person when they subsequently encounter the wild virus. Non-neutralizing antibodies may enable the virus to enter the cells or the immune response may be skewed in other ways.

This is the reason why there has never been a coronavirus vaccine before. When they tried developing coronavirus vaccines in the past, the test animals seemed to develop robust antibodies but when they were challenged with the wild virus, they got sick and died. This stopped the vaccine development in its tracks. This adverse reaction has been also seen with Dengue Virus, Ebola Virus, HIV, and RSV vaccines well.

The clinical trials for the Covid-19 vaccines2 were much too short to do proper and complete animal testing; the quick move to human trials, and to Emergency Use Authorization (not approval) of the vaccine, means that the global population will be used as the test animals in this experiment. The FDA, referring to it euphemistically as “vaccine-enhanced disease”, stated as much in their briefing document where they acknowledged that ADE will more likely be seen over time, following authorization or even after licensure, as vaccine immunity begins to wane.

Since ADE could potentially take months to years to occur in the various populations and demographics around the world, we may have a looming global disaster yet to come. One microbiologist has referred to it as a “ticking time bomb”.

Not only is this risk being ignored but, so too, is halacha (Jewish law).3




The Problem of Antibody-Dependent Enhancement


rhahl

rhahl Avatar



Posted: Jul 29, 2021 - 8:02am

 Red_Dragon wrote:
 
Way to bury the lede, Reuters: "But the ability of the coronavirus to mutate quickly into new, highly transmissible variants has cast doubt on whether herd immunity can be achieved."
 
I just skimmed the article but it looked like there was nothing about irresponsible travel to and from India, home of the delta strain.
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Jul 29, 2021 - 7:56am

Analysis: Biden's COVID-19 strategy thwarted by anti-vaxxers, Delta variant
rhahl

rhahl Avatar



Posted: Jul 29, 2021 - 6:34am

 kurtster wrote:
So the 100's of thousands of infected illegals who have the delta variant are having no effect  on what is going on here in the USA ?  Is that what you are saying ?  There is a reported 900% surge in cases in the Rio Grande Valley sector of our southern border with nearly all of them consisting of the delta variant.  That is having zero affect ?
I'm giving credit where credit is due. As to government policy making covid-19 worse, why focus on refugees when others are more blameworthy?
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 29, 2021 - 6:02am

for the past 10 days or so, my sister, who is 55 and suffering from a couple of serious comorbidities, has been in the IDU
infectious disease unit at her local hospital with covid19 (the delta variant)
she was vaxxed very early this year with pfizer (she is in a care home where 85% of the residents have been vaccinated)
went from feeling sort of bad to scary low oxygen sat and bipap and antibodies in 48-72 hours
after teetering on the edge of being ventilated for days, she has been doing a little better and moved to a different wing /floor of the hosp
i hate to think what would have happened if she hadn't been vaccinated
please, for the love of life, encourage people to speak with their docs and get vaccinated asap
i can't tell you how stressful this is on all involved
that is all

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 29, 2021 - 5:46am

 rhahl wrote:

I think the delta strain came from India. It was mostly jet setters who spread that one around.
 
So the 100's of thousands of infected illegals who have the delta variant are having no effect  on what is going on here in the USA ?  Is that what you are saying ?  There is a reported 900% surge in cases in the Rio Grande Valley sector of our southern border with nearly all of them consisting of the delta variant.  That is having zero affect ?
rhahl

rhahl Avatar



Posted: Jul 29, 2021 - 4:35am

 kurtster wrote:

And from all of the infected illegals crossing our open borders and being shipped to who knows where.  Because Biden refuses to tell us where he is sending them.

My guess is they are being shipped to where the major new cases of the D strain are showing up ...
 
I think the delta strain came from India. It was mostly jet setters who spread that one around.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 29, 2021 - 4:32am

 Red_Dragon wrote:
 
And from all of the infected illegals crossing our open borders and being shipped to who knows where.  Because Biden refuses to tell us where he is sending them.

My guess is they are being shipped to where the major new cases of the D strain are showing up ...
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Jul 28, 2021 - 5:30pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:


The people who refuse it practice not acting in their own self-interest as a lifestyle.

Yes.  True that.   But maybe this is to some extent all about preferences.   

Some of us start to prepare for the golden years when we are adolescents.  Others are far more comfortable with a shorter-term framework.  They may simply care less about longer-term outcomes.  

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Jul 28, 2021 - 3:51pm

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Jul 28, 2021 - 5:07am

 westslope wrote:


Vaccination is in the self-interest of the person getting vaccinated so it is odd that a material inducement would be necessary.

My impression is that demonstration effects work well, e.g., tobacco deaths. 


The people who refuse it practice not acting in their own self-interest as a lifestyle.
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 28, 2021 - 4:53am

 
 
 
R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 27, 2021 - 3:38pm

 westslope wrote:
Vaccination is in the self-interest of the person getting vaccinated so it is odd that a material inducement would be necessary.

My impression is that demonstration effects work well, e.g., tobacco deaths. 

People obviously aren't always rational when it comes to self-interest.

Not everyone is stupid either.
Additionally, Republican states also tend to be more rural, so access to shots may still prevent some people in those areas from getting immunized.

Data collected by The New York Times showed that 34% of people are fully vaccinated in an average US county that voted for Donald Trump, whereas 45% of people are fully vaccinated in an average county that voted for Joe Biden.
Death panels are still premature.
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Jul 27, 2021 - 3:35pm

 R_P wrote:

Maybe some need a bit of nudging: 250$ (income) tax deduction for proof of vaccination...



Vaccination is in the self-interest of the person getting vaccinated so it is odd that a material inducement would be necessary.

My impression is that demonstration effects work well, e.g., tobacco deaths. 
R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 27, 2021 - 3:26pm

 rgio wrote:
It's a lot higher for them...and we don't have to worry about their collecting social security anymore.  If you're willing to gamble that we don't end up with a killer strain (which odds are will come from offshore anyway)...it could actually pay dividends letting them die without vaccinations.

The price/cost is shared by society, possibly in non-fungible ways. You also can't be certain who dies.

Unvaccinated people (of all ages) might be a better playground for new variants, which in return might come back to haunt the vaccinated.

rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 27, 2021 - 2:09pm

 R_P wrote:

No, for everyone (or there will be the inevitable accusations of discrimination). $10B isn't too bad. What's the price of thousands more being treated and/or dying?


It's a lot higher for them...and we don't have to worry about their collecting social security anymore.  If you're willing to gamble that we don't end up with a killer strain (which odds are will come from offshore anyway)...it could actually pay dividends letting them die without vaccinations.

R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 27, 2021 - 1:47pm

 rgio wrote:
So you're not going to give it to folks who've already done it?  If you are, then it's going to cost around $41 Billion.  Seems a bit silly when it's also saving their lives.

EDIT - You said deduction and I read credit.  Would only be $10B for a deduction.

No, for everyone (or there will be the inevitable accusations of discrimination). $10B isn't too bad. What's the price of thousands more being treated and/or dying?

rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 27, 2021 - 1:43pm

 R_P wrote:

Maybe some need a bit of nudging: 250$ (income) tax deduction for proof of vaccination...


So you're not going to give it to folks who've already done it?  If you are, then it's going to cost around $41 Billion.  Seems a bit silly when it's also saving their lives.

EDIT - You said deduction and I read credit.  Would only be $10B for a deduction.
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