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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » COVID-19 Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 152, 153, 154 ... 395, 396, 397  Next
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kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 11, 2021 - 5:22pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
And what about the people who have been infected, survived, recovered and have a lasting and duarble natural immuntiy ?  How many of those are among the unvaccinated and not wanting to be vaccinated ? (...)

Got any evidence*, JAQ?
 
Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19

At a Glance

The immune systems of more than 95% of people who recovered from COVID-19 had durable memories of the virus up to eight months after infection.

The results provide hope that people receiving SARS-CoV-2 vaccines will develop similar lasting immune memories after vaccination.

R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 11, 2021 - 12:21pm

 kurtster wrote:
And what about the people who have been infected, survived, recovered and have a lasting and duarble natural immuntiy

How many of those are among the unvaccinated and not wanting to be vaccinated ? (...)

Got any evidence*, JAQ?
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 11, 2021 - 12:06pm

And what about the people who have been infected, survived, recovered and have a lasting and duarble natural immuntiy ? 

How many of those are among the unvaccinated and not wanting to be vaccinated ?

Once upon a time those who were infected and recovered were supposed to be included in the herd immunity equation and be part of the solution.

Now they are being ignored and / or also being told that natural immunity is no longer meaningful.

And no one here seems to want to discuss natural immunity.
.
{#Meditate}
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Sep 11, 2021 - 5:43am

 miamizsun wrote:


how do you, as a professional persuade people/clients in person?
i have had good results when i can have a face to face
one of the biggest points i stress is to speak with your doctor
(i think i read where 95% of docs were vaccinated)

online success convincing people to get protected? probably not so much


Raises the obvious question: why are so many of the unvaccinated and anti- maskers influenced by what they find online?
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 11, 2021 - 5:19am

 Steely_D wrote:


Minorities with reservations and people with questions are still unvaccinated and are the people to blame. If more of the nation refused flu vaccine, or one of the other important preventions, then the spread of disease through the country would be substantial - and preventable.

Tired of hearing “but I don’t know what’s in it” as they head to McDonald’s.


how do you, as a professional persuade people/clients in person?
i have had good results when i can have a face to face
one of the biggest points i stress is to speak with your doctor
(i think i read where 95% of docs were vaccinated)

online success convincing people to get protected? probably not so much
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 10, 2021 - 3:48pm

 miamizsun wrote:

how long before this blows back?
because oppressors gonna oppress...
is this guy is putting it nicely?
consider giving bipoc a pass?




Minorities with reservations and people with questions are still unvaccinated and are the people to blame. If more of the nation refused flu vaccine, or one of the other important preventions, then the spread of disease through the country would be substantial - and preventable.

Tired of hearing “but I don’t know what’s in it” as they head to McDonald’s.
R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 10, 2021 - 2:32pm


miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 10, 2021 - 2:14pm

how long before this blows back?
because oppressors gonna oppress...
is this guy is putting it nicely?
consider giving bipoc a pass?


black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 10, 2021 - 1:35pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


At this point, who's unvaxxed? People who don't have the capacity (mental or financial) to isolate. I have stopped giving them credit for rational thought so I assume if they're infected they'll say it's a cold, not get tested, and spread it more than they would have a year ago. My co-worker's parents were in this office several weeks ago. They're elderly, so always moaning about this ailment or that so I didn't really tune in when they said they were feeling poorly. THE NEXT DAY dad was in the hospital and he stayed there, face down, for two weeks. Gets out and denies it was ever really bad and disagreed that he needed that level of care. Said he asked to go home after the first day. Nice guy but stubborn as hell. Mules think he should give in a little.


Kinda of a broad sweep, but OK, and maybe not too far from the truth.
Based just on observations in large public gatherings, clearly the unvaxxed arent masking, or maybe they are like sird and sheltering?
But my main point again is, too many risk variables to consider....other than getting a vaxx seems most appropriate risk mitigating strategy. 
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 10, 2021 - 12:38pm

This feels a lot like when you talk and cajole but your toddler won’t get out of the street, so you finally just grab them by the arm and bring them back on the sidewalk.
ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 10, 2021 - 12:35pm

 black321 wrote:


OK, but there are lots of variables to consider; e.g., if i'm unvaxxed and sick, I'm more likely to isolate, than an unvaxxed person who may or may not know he's sick.


At this point, who's unvaxxed? People who don't have the capacity (mental or financial) to isolate. I have stopped giving them credit for rational thought so I assume if they're infected they'll say it's a cold, not get tested, and spread it more than they would have a year ago. My co-worker's parents were in this office several weeks ago. They're elderly, so always moaning about this ailment or that so I didn't really tune in when they said they were feeling poorly. THE NEXT DAY dad was in the hospital and he stayed there, face down, for two weeks. Gets out and denies it was ever really bad and disagreed that he needed that level of care. Said he asked to go home after the first day. Nice guy but stubborn as hell. Mules think he should give in a little.
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 10, 2021 - 12:23pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

not sure it works like that. Whether you are vaccinated or not, there is still a high chance (if infected) that you are asymptomatic. In this case, only those who test regularly reduce the risk of passing it on.
PS  also know of a couple of cases of fully vaxxed people getting it and feeling pretty rotten (like bad-cold rotten). The main benefit of the vaccines, as I understand it, is that they keep people from having the dreaded cytokine storm. 

Which means we get to live with Covid, but it is no longer  the massive threat to our health infrastructure - provided enough people get the vaccine. This seems to be borne out by the numbers in the UK and other European countries currently undergoing the delta wave.

Not being an Epidemiologist, I'm not sure it works like that either...point being, there are lots of variables to consider...but the overriding evidence seems to point to vaccines significantly mitigating the risk. 

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 10, 2021 - 12:14pm

Denmark hits 80% vaccination rate, lifts all restrictions
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 10, 2021 - 12:04pm

 black321 wrote

OK, but there are lots of variables to consider; e.g., if i'm unvaxxed and sick, I'm more likely to isolate, than an unvaxxed person who may or may not know he's sick.
 
not sure it works like that. Whether you are vaccinated or not, there is still a high chance (if infected) that you are asymptomatic. In this case, only those who test regularly reduce the risk of passing it on.
PS  also know of a couple of cases of fully vaxxed people getting it and feeling pretty rotten (like bad-cold rotten). The main benefit of the vaccines, as I understand it, is that they keep people from having the dreaded cytokine storm. 

Which means we get to live with Covid, but it is no longer  the massive threat to our health infrastructure - provided enough people get the vaccine. This seems to be borne out by the numbers in the UK and other European countries currently undergoing the delta wave.
R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 10, 2021 - 11:20am

And the Tribe of Reason gets a say too:
Biden’s Vaccine Mandate Is a Big Mistake
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 10, 2021 - 11:19am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

This is the takeaway that people have when the headlines say "infected vaccinated people have the same viral load as infected unvaccinated" but that's a pretty wobbly connection. Yes they can catch it and spread it but the window of opportunity is greatly reduced, since the infection lasts a few days vs a few weeks, etc. 

As I understand it.


OK, but there are lots of variables to consider; e.g., if i'm unvaxxed and sick, I'm more likely to isolate, than an unvaxxed person who may or may not know he's sick.
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 10, 2021 - 10:48am

 black321 wrote:


Seems the biggest concern/risk with the vaccines is that it doesn't stop the vaccine from spreading, and therefore mutating.

This is the takeaway that people have when the headlines say "infected vaccinated people have the same viral load as infected unvaccinated" but that's a pretty wobbly connection. Yes they can catch it and spread it but the window of opportunity is greatly reduced, since the infection lasts a few days vs a few weeks, etc. 

As I understand it.
R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 10, 2021 - 10:47am

Given the time required between the first two doses of the vaccine, and then for immunity to build up, the effect of all these mandates is unlikely to be felt for many weeks, said Bill Hanage, an epidemiologist at Harvard University.

And Dr. Hanage was skeptical that the mandates would be successful in inoculating millions more people than have already opted for the vaccine. Some of the people who most urgently need to be protected are older adults who will not be affected by workplace requirements.

“I’m sure that the anti-vaxxers are already prepared to be up in arms about this,” he said. (Republican governors in several states have decried the mandates as unconstitutional and say they plan to file suits to stop them.)

By insisting that vaccination is the way out of the pandemic, officials in both the Trump and Biden administrations have de-emphasized the importance of masks and testing in controlling the pandemic, several experts said.

“It’s a lot quicker to put on a mask than it is to get a bunch of people vaccinated,” Dr. Hanage said.

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 10, 2021 - 9:53am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


I'm willing to accept that masks are a theoretical help but with iffy or zero compliance, that help is minimal. A more thorough vaccination rate is the only real way to get over this thing.

The Delta variant of the Covid-19 virus appears well positioned to maintain its dominance over new variants such as Lambda and Mu, virologists say

I am 100% in favor of better ventilation, especially since our temperatures are still in the 90s here. I am shocked that they're not propping all the doors open in our schools but the last crisis was school shootings so they put man-traps in all the buildings... can't prop the doors open and keep those functional.


Seems the biggest concern/risk with the vaccines is that it doesn't stop the vaccine from spreading, and therefore mutating.
Historically, this doesn't seem to be an issue, since pandemics eventually fade away, immune systems adapt (this time with the help of vaccines), or it mutates into a less harmful form.
So at least for the time being, the vaccine addresses the death and morbidity issues. 


ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 10, 2021 - 9:46am

 rhahl wrote:
 None of this wishful thinking, even if it all comes true, could justify the vaccine only approach we have now; and neither does that graph below showing lower hospitalization rates among highly vaccinated states. It actually makes my point, delta is very dangerous, and just wait til you get a load of mu, which seems to evade the existing vaccines entirely and will likely become the dominant strain by Christmas under current policy. Talking only about vaccines, but not about the need to improve ventilation and wear masks, looks a lot like mass murder to me.


I'm willing to accept that masks are a theoretical help but with iffy or zero compliance, that help is minimal. A more thorough vaccination rate is the only real way to get over this thing.

The Delta variant of the Covid-19 virus appears well positioned to maintain its dominance over new variants such as Lambda and Mu, virologists say

I am 100% in favor of better ventilation, especially since our temperatures are still in the 90s here. I am shocked that they're not propping all the doors open in our schools but the last crisis was school shootings so they put man-traps in all the buildings... can't prop the doors open and keep those functional.
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