It is only ever going to trickle down, either from the private sector or the government. Pick your poison.
The rich getting tax breaks and subsidies from the federal government have no obligation to create new businesses and jobs with their wealth transfer. Many move it offshore to bank accounts and other investments as a means of tax avoidance. That offshoring pretty much kills off the promised trickle-down effect to American workers.
You missed my point entirely. You either go out and earn your money by some agreed upon arrangement or the government gives it to you and with that, all of the strings and restrictions and regulations it can impose upon you when you are dependent on the government for your money.
It either trickles down from someone who needs something (goods and services) and pays someone else to provide it or it trickles down from the government via all the strings it can and will attach in order to control you the way it wants to. These are the only two ways. Well there is also looting and rioting which seems to be becoming the new normal way to go shopping in many locales these days. But that works only as long as there are stores to loot.
How about them Dodgers ! Look at all of those people who went "shopping" in L A after they won the World Series.
read on twitter that he is going to change the locks on the whitehouse next tuesday
i'm thinking that this will be bigger than y2k
i'll put up my hurricane shutters
grab pallets of toilet paper, beanie weenies and water
Don’t forget milk and bread.
Seriously, if you want to have a discussion about whether this is just politics as usual and much ado about nothing, we could do that. It seems, though, our opinions on that are at polar opposites.
i think the dominant social theme is that trump is some sort of villianous genius (when he's not being dumb as a block of wood)
he wants zero interest rates so he can borrow all the money in the world to rebuild every road, highway, bridge, park, housing project, etc., etc.
left unchecked he would fufill vermin supreme's dream and give every american a pony (and not to be outdone, throw in a golden saddle)
he would spend and build circles around anyone
and the democrats (and most republicans) are scared silly that he will do it and get the credit
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Oct 28, 2020 - 4:40pm
Ohmsen wrote:
steeler wrote:
miamizsun wrote:
read on twitter that he is going to change the locks on the whitehouse next tuesday
i'm thinking that this will be bigger than y2k
i'll put up my hurricane shutters
grab pallets of toilet paper, beanie weenies and water
Donât forget milk and bread.
Seriously, if you want to have a discussion about whether this is just politics as usual and much ado about nothing, we could do that. It seems, though, our opinions on that are at polar opposites.
What could the difference be?
Rioting on the streets, more homelessness, less medical care, joblessness, waiting in lines for food banks... you name it.
Would any candidate do a better job to curb these challenges?
I doubt it, seriously (from afar).
How is Germany faring under Merkel, in your opinion?
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Oct 28, 2020 - 4:32pm
miamizsun wrote:
read on twitter that he is going to change the locks on the whitehouse next tuesday
i'm thinking that this will be bigger than y2k
i'll put up my hurricane shutters
grab pallets of toilet paper, beanie weenies and water
Donât forget milk and bread.
Seriously, if you want to have a discussion about whether this is just politics as usual and much ado about nothing, we could do that. It seems, though, our opinions on that are at polar opposites.
Normally, I would agree with, or at least be receptive to, most of your points, but we have exited “normal” — which is a central point of my post. Suffice it to say that I do not agree that this is a case of same old, same old. I do believe that Trump and Trumpism constitute real threats to our republic, our democracy. Drastic times call for drastic measures . . . something along those lines. This is not a drill! Repeat: this is not a drill!
read on twitter that he is going to change the locks on the whitehouse next tuesday
i'm thinking that this will be bigger than y2k
i'll put up my hurricane shutters
grab pallets of toilet paper, beanie weenies and water
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Oct 28, 2020 - 4:07pm
miamizsun wrote: have you ever noticed:
it is always those other guys (modern day hatfield/mccoy feud
)
it is always the most important election in forever
and we're at a hinge point of history
everyone is awash in tribal millenarianism
battle cry = we represent the righteous salvation! we must win!
biden/harris will probably win a close election similar to 2016 (if we believe the polls)
is there a difference between campaign rhetoric and reality?
are these really problem solvers?
where's the beef?
regards
steeler responds:
Normally, I would agree with, or at least be receptive to, most of your points, but we have exited ânormalâ â which is a central point of my post. Suffice it to say that I do not agree that this is a case of same old, same old. I do believe that Trump and Trumpism constitute real threats to our republic, our democracy. Drastic times call for drastic measures . . . something along those lines. This is not a drill! Repeat: this is not a drill!
It is only ever going to trickle down, either from the private sector or the government. Pick your poison.
The rich getting tax breaks and subsidies from the federal government have no obligation to create new businesses and jobs with their wealth transfer. Many move it offshore to bank accounts and other investments as a means of tax avoidance. That offshoring pretty much kills off the promised trickle-down effect to American workers. Trickle-down theory was first floated in 1896 and has a very poor record of success. It's gone by different names over the years. If you want to stimulate the economy by transferring money to individuals, it's better to give money to the poor and near-poor because those groups will spend the money quickly and not hide it outside of the country.
From the Wikipedia entry cited above:
A 2012 study by the Tax Justice Network indicates that wealth of the super-rich does not trickle down to improve the economy, but it instead tends to be amassed and sheltered in tax havens with a negative effect on the tax bases of the home economy.<25>
A 2015 paper by researchers for the International Monetary Fund argues that there is no trickle-down effect as the rich get richer:
f the income share of the top 20 percent (the rich) increases, then GDP growth actually declines over the medium term, suggesting that the benefits do not trickle down. In contrast, an increase in the income share of the bottom 20 percent (the poor) is associated with higher GDP growth.<5>
A 2015 report on policy by economist Pavlina R. Tcherneva described the failings of increasing economic gains of the rich without commensurate participation by the working and middle classes, referring to the problematic policies as "Reagan-style trickle-down economics," and "a trickle-down, financial-sector-driven policy regime."<27>
In 2016, Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz wrote that the post-World War II evidence does not support trickle-down economics, but rather "trickle-up economics" whereby more money in the pockets of the poor or the middle benefits everyone.<28>
A 2019 study in the Journal of Political Economy found, contrary to trickle-down theory, that "the positive relationship between tax cuts and employment growth is largely driven by tax cuts for lower-income groups and that the effect of tax cuts for the top 10 percent on employment growth is small."<29>
Good. A tax cut for the wealthy was a huge mistake. The nation is like any other business, and needs capital to do the things it does. Getting taxes from those who have prospered, including businesses (since theyâre people too, right?) helps fund our military, infrastructure, and independence with stability.
Raising taxes on the wealthy, which is what happens, helps our nation.
Look back on how the nation was ruined under Bush, then revived under Obama. Then look at all Republican administrations and compare how the nation does, versus the Democratic years.
Who understands the necessary parts of how government finances work? Certainly not the foundering âbest businessman everâ whoâs currently thinking that the Dow = your income. Certainly not Bush, who presided over the global economic collapse. Certainly not Reagan, with the failed âtrickle downâ philosophy that only put more money in the pockets of the already wealthy.
You think you can scare people with threats that are basically âThe Democrats will fix the economy that the Republicans broke!â Well, OK. But good luck.
Both parties are responsible for where we are at...maybe one more than others, but why split hairs. The democratic president during the 90s balanced the budget with a republican congress. A republican was president during the great recession, tied to regulations overhauled during a democratic presidency....
Good. A tax cut for the wealthy was a huge mistake. The nation is like any other business, and needs capital to do the things it does. Getting taxes from those who have prospered, including businesses (since theyâre people too, right?) helps fund our military, infrastructure, and independence with stability.
Raising taxes on the wealthy, which is what happens, helps our nation.
Look back on how the nation was ruined under Bush, then revived under Obama. Then look at all Republican administrations and compare how the nation does, versus the Democratic years.
Who understands the necessary parts of how government finances work? Certainly not the foundering âbest businessman everâ whoâs currently thinking that the Dow = your income. Certainly not Bush, who presided over the global economic collapse. Certainly not Reagan, with the failed âtrickle downâ philosophy that only put more money in the pockets of the already wealthy.
You think you can scare people with threats that are basically âThe Democrats will fix the economy that the Republicans broke!â Well, OK. But good luck.
