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kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 1, 2021 - 9:45am

 miamizsun wrote:

this is taking me back in a good way {#Music}
 
Yeah.  It certainly did for me, too.  Takes me to the same places now that it did then.  

Perhaps the biggest reminder through all of this is exactly what parts of The Beatles were George and even more so how much Billy Preston became a really big part of The Beatles when he showed up and brought his keyboards into the soul of their music after Sgt Pepper to the end and beyond with this album to be sure.
miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 1, 2021 - 4:33am

 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:
 All the ones from your left column!
 
this is taking me back in a good way {#Music}
KurtfromLaQuinta

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Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 31, 2021 - 7:56am

 kurtster wrote:

Alrighty then.  Try these and then pick which one you like best.

LESS FILLING                 TASTES GREAT

.
{#Ask}

All the ones from your left column!








miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 31, 2021 - 5:53am

 kurtster wrote:

Alrighty then.  Try these and then pick which one you like best.

LESS FILLING                 TASTES GREAT

.
{#Ask}


all will be revealed soon-ish  


oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 30, 2021 - 5:17pm

 kurtster wrote:

Alrighty then.  Try these and then pick which one you like best.

LESS FILLING                 TASTES GREAT

.
{#Ask}
 
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 30, 2021 - 4:27pm

 miamizsun wrote:
looks like you guys have got it bad
if it helps rip something and send it to me (digitally)
consider it a form of therapy
yw
 
Alrighty then.  Try these and then pick which one you like best.

LESS FILLING                 TASTES GREAT

.
{#Ask}
KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 30, 2021 - 10:50am

 kurtster wrote:
No. Painters are the whiners. Who really don't want to work at all. 


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 28, 2021 - 11:30pm

 rhahl wrote:
This interview with Pierre Spray about recording techniques might be useful or at least interesting.
 
http://www.tnt-audio.com/intervis/mapleshade_records_e.html
 
Catching up on things now that I have finished the initial part of what has been a grueling three weeks on this project.  The audio program I use for remastering becomes unstable after being open for a couple of weeks and can crash requiring a restart with some settings lost.  So in order to have all 36 tracks of both mixes sound the same when finished they had to be done all at once.  That was done from the wee hours of last Sunday through to the wee hours of this Thursday.  And then 3 days of retail hell.  I'm whupped.  Listening to the 2017 mix on the headphones now.  Already listened to the 2021 mix on the cans.  Truthfully surprised how good it came out.  And while they are really very different, they both sound very nice actually.  If I was to sit down and listen to the whole album in one sitting, either one will do.  But if I were to want to listen to individual tracks here and there, probably the 2021 mixes.

Nice.  Apply some of the same principals to ripping.  Shortest possible cable runs with as few steps as possible in the data chain to the actual file.  Turntable is powered by separate 120 volt to 100 volt converter plugged into a line conditioner that keeps things very quiet and off to one side from all the computers.  Turntable is plugged into a DC powered combination phono preamp / ADC with USB out straight into the computer with special cable at 1.5 meter in length to keep extraneous noises to a minimum.  Conversion to digital is done at the earliest possible stage to keep the sound as close to the original signal as possible.  Theoretically since my phono carts are designed to work on quad vinyl these wav files played through a quad decoder should have all the information needed to properly process the signal and playback in quad as intended.

The one thing that I have long ago concluded and was recently reinforced after going through both mixes of ATMP is that when it comes to perfect reproduction of recorded sound, it can only really matter with live totally acoustic music as with an orchestra or small ensemble of any kind.  And there are two schools of thought for recording this sound.  Binaural and conventional multiple microphone placements through the entire room.  Binaural being a pair of microphones placed on elevated head shaped holder with the microphones placed on the head in the same positioning of the ears.  This captures the overall sound as it would be naturally heard by a single listener in that point of space. Otherwise when instruments are electronic or amplified through electronic means, that no longer really applies.  This kind of music is subject to the interpretations of producers and engineers after the musicians have done their part.  There are many different ways to mix and otherwise change and affect the music towards an intended end that may not sound the same way (and rarely does) the individual instruments sounded when played.  It then becomes subjective trying to make it sound a certain way for commercial playback purposes.  And it goes downhill from this point onward. 

I think of it this way.  The musicians are the framers / rough carpenters, the engineers are the finishing carpenters and those who master the final mix are the painters who come in and fix or cover up all the flaws under the paint facade and make them go away with a pleasing final appearance or sound.  The final mastering can just as easily make or break the recording.  And why there are so many remastering efforts we are being bombarded with to make up for all of the crappy CD releases that came out.  And then sadly, the primary purpose is to extract another buck from the listener rather than really put forth a final masterpiece.


miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 21, 2021 - 6:03am

looks like you guys have got it bad
if it helps rip something and send it to me (digitally)
consider it a form of therapy
yw
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 20, 2021 - 9:33pm

 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

Yer welcome !  Still slogging away.  Just finished the full run through. Total of 22 sides played times 3 times each.  Sides 1 & 2 were bad on both sets, so I bought one more, but the 5 Lp set (from another vendor) instead of the 7 hoping to get a different part of the run.    Nope, all three although the one from the 5 piece set is the most tolerable.  All three Side 1's have the same stamper but Side 2 has two different ones. I have to return one 7 and the 5 now.  Sigh.  Now I have to redo the 2017 set, with this new cart.  I'll have a pretty good idea of the differences after all this.  What is really nice is that the outtakes and demos are the really, really good stuff.  I like many of them better than the finals.  More thoughts to come on this album. I also put in an order for the über set, but I'm still thinking about not getting it with these defects.  Lot's of emailing in my immediate future.  Sigh, again ... and almost a full quart of various cleaning solutions.
Dude!
My drug (music) problem is almost as bad as yours. 
 
Wow, that's pretty bad.  It does channel my inner OCD and keeps the perfectionist in me frustrated.  I'm still slogging away with this set.  Had to try 4 more sides and found a previously unknown fourth different stamper in the process for one of them.  I ran into someone else at discogs who has also tried 3 different copies and couldn't make one good one out of those three either.  It looks like two go back for sure and maybe all three.  This may turn out to be a major train wreck of not only an iconic album but also of an expensive set that contains so many separate discs.  People are pissed and the returns are going to be monumental.  Universal Music Group which controls nearly all the physical rights to any material of worth decides who is going to do the work and how many corners (quality control) they can cut, cheap out on and get away with.

So the month of August is going to be all about this album.  Already broke up the 2017 and now I'm halfway through the 2021 main album.  The Über Deluxe set arrives Tuesday.  Weighs in at 48 lbs according to UPS.  There is a great unboxing vid which I'll put up when I have some extra time.  So between now and Tuesday I've got much to do.  It's a good thing that this is a desert island album and I can hear it over and over again and not get too tired (yet) of hearing it.  It'll be interesting to find out how often I will listen to it down the road after beating my brains out with it now.

I am beginning to like the new mix though now that I am pretty familiar with it.

More to come.
KurtfromLaQuinta

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Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 20, 2021 - 4:46pm

 kurtster wrote:

Yer welcome !  Still slogging away.  Just finished the full run through. Total of 22 sides played times 3 times each.  Sides 1 & 2 were bad on both sets, so I bought one more, but the 5 Lp set (from another vendor) instead of the 7 hoping to get a different part of the run.    Nope, all three although the one from the 5 piece set is the most tolerable.  All three Side 1's have the same stamper but Side 2 has two different ones. I have to return one 7 and the 5 now.  Sigh.  Now I have to redo the 2017 set, with this new cart.  I'll have a pretty good idea of the differences after all this.  What is really nice is that the outtakes and demos are the really, really good stuff.  I like many of them better than the finals.  More thoughts to come on this album. I also put in an order for the über set, but I'm still thinking about not getting it with these defects.  Lot's of emailing in my immediate future.  Sigh, again ...

and almost a full quart of various cleaning solutions.
Dude!
My drug (music) problem is almost as bad as yours. 


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 15, 2021 - 12:42am

 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
8 Aug 2021 Been awhile. Comments, if any are welcome. {#Cheers}  Y'all CLICKY

Thank for that Kurt!
Sounds real nice and clear!
 
Yer welcome !  Still slogging away.  Just finished the full run through. Total of 22 sides played times 3 times each.  Sides 1 & 2 were bad on both sets, so I bought one more, but the 5 Lp set (from another vendor) instead of the 7 hoping to get a different part of the run.    Nope, all three although the one from the 5 piece set is the most tolerable.  All three Side 1's have the same stamper but Side 2 has two different ones. I have to return one 7 and the 5 now.  Sigh.  Now I have to redo the 2017 set, with this new cart.  I'll have a pretty good idea of the differences after all this.  What is really nice is that the outtakes and demos are the really, really good stuff.  I like many of them better than the finals.  More thoughts to come on this album. I also put in an order for the über set, but I'm still thinking about not getting it with these defects.  Lot's of emailing in my immediate future.  Sigh, again ...

and almost a full quart of various cleaning solutions.
KurtfromLaQuinta

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Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 14, 2021 - 8:58pm

 westslope wrote:

Revolver, All Things Must Pass, ......   sweet.

As for Patti Boyd, seems like cocaine and especially alcohol played leading roles in outcomes.

FWIW, a neighbour divorced his wife and the mother of his children in order to marry his ex-wife's best friend.  These folks are bikers if that matters, I am not sure.

I don't pretend to understand it all being more of a until death do us part, monogamous kinda guy.  


Yep. Drugs and alcohol. I don't get it.
I have a couple of friends I avoided many years ago who were involved in all kinds of nasty stuff.
To their credit, they got clean and are doing better. But, boy did they age badly. They can't believe I'm almost 67. They look like 70+++ and they're younger than I am.
No thanks.
I'm with you on the one time for both of us two... too. 

KurtfromLaQuinta

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Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 14, 2021 - 8:50pm

 kurtster wrote:
8 Aug 2021

Been awhile. Comments, if any are welcome.

{#Cheers}
  Y'all

CLICKY

Thank for that Kurt!
Sounds real nice and clear!

westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Aug 10, 2021 - 9:58am

 kurtster wrote:
8 Aug 2021

....... Clapton's and Harrison's friendship has always been mystifying to me given the Patti Harrison part of all of it.  Sex and drugs and rock and roll ...

.......

Revolver, All Things Must Pass, ......   sweet.

As for Patti Boyd, seems like cocaine and especially alcohol played leading roles in outcomes.

FWIW, a neighbour divorced his wife and the mother of his children in order to marry his ex-wife's best friend.  These folks are bikers if that matters, I am not sure.

I don't pretend to understand it all being more of a until death do us part, monogamous kinda guy.  

rhahl

rhahl Avatar



Posted: Aug 10, 2021 - 9:41am

This interview with Pierre Spray about recording techniques might be useful or at least interesting.
 
http://www.tnt-audio.com/intervis/mapleshade_records_e.html
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 8, 2021 - 5:08pm

8 Aug 2021

Been awhile.  The past two months, at least, have been extraordinarily nutz around the homestead, what with nursing my buddy back to somewhat health, life, work and music and taking him back home to Georgia with the bonus of visiting sirdroseph.  Music worked for the first couple of weeks, but as time wore on, it sort of fell by the wayside.  I spent most of the music time going back through existing raw rips that have piled up and cleaned up a bunch of album sides and did 38 individual songs.  I also worked on assembling rips and whatnot for my buddy to take with, for sird and to update the flash drives for me and the wife for our cars.  So far this year to date, I've done 121 individual songs and ripped about a collective 400 album sides (each separate album the usual three times per side).

Now it's back to the ripping full tilt.  I just bought a new copy of Revolver for S&G's when I saw it WalMart to check it out and get ready for the arrival of the Harrison Box Set which I preordered 3 months ago.  It got here yesterday, 2 sets because of the usual defects that may be present so i can build a good one out of two or three sets as I have had to do in the past.  The Steven Wilson Yes Box set took three copies to build two good box sets and they still sit after a couple of years now to be ripped along with all kinds of other ones that have piled up.

All Things Must Pass is one of my more favorite albums of all time.  I have the 2017 Box remaster (now out of print) of the original mix and it is by far the best of all the prior efforts, imho.  So when it was announced that George's son Dhani was going to remix it and try to get Phil Spector out of it à la what was done with The Beatles Let It Be Naked, I was all in.  Let It Be Naked is really, really great in its own right and illustrates how much one can do with the same set of tracks with different approaches and how much interpretations can decide what we finally are allowed to hear by the powers that be.

So the new mix is indeed different.  Got to say it takes balls to try and change and improve a masterpiece.  It is plain to hear what was trying to be accomplished, which was to bring George's voice and guitars more into the front and less affected by the Wall Of Sound.  I've played back two tracks for direct comparison so far, What Is Life and If Not For You which is one of the most beautiful versions of this Dylan song ever.  The wife and I both prefer the 2017 original mix.  Phil Spector really did a great job of balancing the whole body of work within itself.  Other songs are a little bit harder to decide as they are different in style remembering that this album was a collection of material sitting on the shelf while George was being the quiet Beatle.  This becomes more obvious as I get down to Side 4.  Who knows, I might assemble an album of remasters from both mixes into one album.

Maybe these changes make the album more of an anthology of post Beatles material than what Spector did to make it an album of related songs.  One thing I have learned in all of my experimenting with songs is that my methods of remastering helps to make unrelated songs have a somewhat similar sound and play together much better.  The changes in techniques has been so profound over the past 15 years of doing this that when hearing some of the earliest stuff played with the present stuff I'm going what the hell was I thinking.  But there are a few songs left from that time that I cannot improve and cannot remember what I did to try it that way again.  But most of those are from CD versions.  Now I'm all vinyl for my sources and vinyl is prepared completely different for release, so the beginning sound is usually very different, but more closer to the intended.  The members of our Mixtape club here have suffered through this evolution as well.  That is another reason I keep doing the same songs over and over again, to get them right and play along with the present stuff.  Fortunately, I can listen to good songs over and over again and not get tired of hearing them too often, at least for short periods of time.  Unless something drastic happens, my approach has been finalized and this is it for the last time ... 

Have yet to get into the out takes and demos.  Have heard different thoughts on those already, but I am not a completest.  But there a few jams there that are said to be Clapton driven with direct connects to things that would become parts of Layla, who as we all know now was George's wife.  Clapton's and Harrison's friendship has always been mystifying to me given the Patti Harrison part of all of it.  Sex and drugs and rock and roll ...

Meanwhile the grunt work continues and so far only the first disc is bad enough to justify a return.  Reports of extreme warpage and other issues have surfaced over at Discogs.  Returning stuff sucks.  And my original red Zerostat seems to be dying.  Sigh.  I already have at least two dead ones of the new blue version.

More to come as I get deeper into this.  Meanwhile for those who are still reading and curious about the music itself, I'm putting up three downloadable versions of If Not For You for comparison of the two mixes raw and my remaster of the 2017 version just for S&G's.  Comments, if any are welcome.

{#Cheers}  Y'all

CLICKY
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: May 30, 2021 - 1:54am

Posting this article text here for me to refer to now  that the original source has since disappeared.  This is my journal thread and what it was intended for.

Found a new source copy but who knows how long that will be around.



Source URL:- Q&A with Barry Diament of Soundkeeper Recordings | AudioStream

Most importantly this Barry seems to be very happy with Compuetr based set-ups!


"Some of you already know about Barry Diament from his CD mastering days at Atlantic Records where he was the mastering engineer for too many classic CD releases to do justice to with a short list (here's one longer list and I'll cherry pick Led Zeppelin II, Physical Graffiti, and the majority of the Bob Marley and The Wailers catalog to give you a peak at the tip of the iceberg). And some of you may know Barry from his label Soundkeeper Recordings or his audio recording, production, consulting, mastering, and editing services offered through Barry Diament Audio.

You may also recall our Soundkeeper Recordings Format Comparisons post that talks about their free downloads of the same recordings in various levels of resolution (16/44, 24/96, and 24/192) so you can listen for yourself. And others still may have seen Barry's often informative comments on various forums.

Barry Diament was kind enough to agree to this Q&A and as you'll see, his answers are thorough and illuminating.

You have a very interesting resume that includes being one of the first CD Mastering Engineers. Can you talk a bit about your history as a recording engineer and bring us up to date with your Soundkeeper Recordings label?

First, I want to say Thank You for your interest, Michael. Im honored to be on AudioStream.

I started recording when I was eleven, playing with my brothers Concord reel-to-reel deck. While recording the weekly jams I had with a few friends, I found that I could play drums and then, using the sound-with-sound feature, add a guitar part later. Id found overdubbing without knowing what it was.

During my college years, I was reading all the audio magazines I could get my hands on, from Audio to Stereo Review to High Fidelity, later finding some of the British magazines, such as Hi-Fi News in a local magazine store. Then came the discovery of Stereophile and The Absolute Sound, both of which (in addition to Bert Whytes columns in Audio) became a sort of audio school, in addition to the other reading and experimenting I was doing.

"While the studio experience was wonderful, I noticed early on that what I heard in the control room did not sound like what I heard out in the room with the musicians."

After college, I got my first studio job as an assistant engineer, setting up microphones and operating the tape machines during recording sessions. Once I was promoted to senior (then chief) engineer, I was doing recording, overdubbing and mixing and later learned to cut vinyl in the in-house mastering room. While the studio experience was wonderful, I noticed early on that what I heard in the control room did not sound like what I heard out in the room with the musicians. So began my fascination with monitoring and the realization that this was, in my view, the single most important factor in the studio. After all, if one could not hear what they were doing, nothing else really mattered.

Then I started to ask what I call The Questions, things I was never taught and which, to my knowledge, are not taught in the real audio engineering schools that have arisen in the intervening years. Questions like Why this microphone? and Why place it here?

When I heard an editors position opened up at Atlantic Records, I jumped at the chance and luckily for me, landed the job. My specific task was to make long songs shorter (to create single versions of album length songs, radio stations preferring to keep songs not much longer than three minutes) and to make short songs longer (to create the dance versions that were popular in the clubs).

"In January of 1983, Atlantic purchased the gear to create CD masters, built a mastering room and I was made the CD mastering department."

In the mid-late 70s, Id heard talk of a new future format for recorded music called the Compact Disc. I remember a cardboard mock-up someone had given me, of a rainbow colored disc only about 5 inches in diameter, in what seemed like a miniature LP jacket. By 1982, Atlantics sister company, Warner Brothers, was already creating CD masters for the Warner family of labels (Warner, Atlantic, Elektra, etc.). In January of 1983, Atlantic purchased the gear to create CD masters, built a mastering room and I was made the CD mastering department. To my knowledge, at the time, only Sony in Japan, Polygram in Germany and Warner in Los Angeles and perhaps one or two other facilities had CD mastering engineers.

I remember hearing my first CDs then and thinking that the removal of hiss, crackles and wow and flutter (speed irregularities) was a good thing but the sound of the instruments themselves was not the great improvement it was promoted as being. In fact, I found my vinyl records to much more closely represent what I was used to hearing in the studio.

Over the years, some significant improvements in CD sound quality followed, from better players, more successfully able to reproduce the sound of the digital CD master to better CD mastering gear. When Atlantic installed Apogees retrofit filters in the Sony mastering gear, there was a nice step up in sonics but I still felt there was a long way to go.

In order to do the best job I could, I set about making some improvements in the mastering room, starting with the monitoring. I had the studio replace the little box speakers in the room with a pair of Dahlquist DQ-10s, later followed by DQ-20s. I treated the reflection points on the walls with absorbent material and brought my own cables to work every day in order to bypass the console, switching, patch bay and other standard accoutrements of a typical mastering room. Typically, I would wire directly from the output of the Studer reel-to-reel deck to the input of the Sony 1630 A-D converters. If I felt some EQ was necessary, Id add only the EQ, with nothing else in the signal path.

"By the mid-1990s I realized that many clients were starting to evaluate my work using the level meters instead of the loudspeakers."

In 1987, I left Atlantic to form BDA and worked primarily as an independent CD mastering engineer. I worked out of a few different studios, choosing them based on my assessment of the monitoring accuracy. By the mid-1990s I realized that many clients were starting to evaluate my work using the level meters instead of the loudspeakers. At this point, I had to stop and ask myself just what I sought to accomplish as an audio engineer.

Now, I enjoy loudness when it is appropriate but in my experience, if you want to shake the walls with AC/DC (or with Mahler), the best way to achieve this is with the playback volume control. Any other way, such as arbitrarily increasing the level on the recording itself involves a host of sonic trade-offs. First among them, is the sense of Life that comes from musical dynamics. Since my goals as an engineer are sourced in my love of music, I didnt want to participate in the ongoing Loudness Wars. All the truly great sounding records and CDs in my collection had much lower average levels than what the majors were releasing. I wanted to preserve all the musical Life in every source I mastered too and never used compression myself. While some say it increases punch, the sonic evidence tells a quite different story. Besides, how does one increase punch by reducing dynamics, where the punch lives? So, I started accepting only those jobs where the clients prime interest was the musical presentation and the preservation of musical dynamics.

I also started to think more about the Questions I mentioned earlier. I asked myself if I ever wanted to listen to a great piano player with my head under the lid of a grand piano and my ears just inches above the hammers. Or if I wanted to listen to a ripping guitar solo with my ear up against the grill cloth of a Marshall (amplifier) stack. Or a great horn player with my ear in the bell of the horn. How about a great vocalist with my ear an inch from their lips? This in fact, is where the mics in a typical studio recording listen from. I realized that those recordings I found truly amazing sonically used considerably fewer microphones and none were ever placed as close to what they were capturing as is done in a typical studio recording.

I came to realize that 90-95% of a recordings ultimate sound quality has already been determined by the time the signals are leaving the microphones. This was the genesis of Soundkeeper Recordings. I knew then that my greatest interest in audio and recording is in making records that give the listener the feeling they are in the presence of the performance, in the room where the performance took place.

To be clear, there is a very large library of recorded music that I love, which was made using the typical studio techniques involving multiple, closely placed microphones. Over the years, the recording art has evolved to the point where musical magic can be created which bears little relationship to the original performance. Wonderful and magical as many of these recordings are, they were made to sound like "records"; my goal is to explore the idea of records that sound like performances. Two different approaches, each with its own rewards.

Soundkeeper Recordings are made with all the musicians playing live, in real time. In order to keep the signals as coherent as possible, there is only one microphone per playback channel. The mics are arranged in a stereo array and are separated by a baffle of my own design. Musical balances are achieved by moving players and instruments physically, rather than moving faders on a mixing console. The recordings are captured in stereo with no overdubs or further processing. What leaves the microphones is essentially the finished recording. (Because I record with a lot of headroom, final levels are adjusted in the mastering room.) The results sound very much like what I hear when standing at the position of the microphone array at the recording sessions.

Provenance is a main concern for many HD download customers. Some people would like this provenance information to include things like what generation master tape was used for a given reissue. This is certainly a new requirement as I'm not aware of many LPs or CDs that provide this information. In your experience, how often is it the case that an album, regardless of format, was created from the original master tape and why is this important?

The first issue of an album is generally created from the original master. In the case of huge sellers, there will often be subsequent masterings. This is particularly true for vinyl because the vinyl lacquer created in the mastering room is only good for the production of so many mothers used for creating of the final pressings.

"What this means is that with hit albums, there is no guarantee a given purchased copy was mastered from the original master tapes."

In vinyl mastering, it has been common practice to make a separate tape recording during the initial mastering stage, which contains the same signal sent to the cutting lathe. In other words, this separate tape recording would capture the level adjustments, EQ and any other processing the mastering engineer uses while cutting the lacquer. The labels would keep this EQd copy (or EQd limited copy) and use these when subsequent lacquers are required. These could be cut flat (i.e., with no further alteration) and reflect the changes made during the original mastering. What this means is that with hit albums, there is no guarantee a given purchased copy was mastered from the original master tapes.

Aside from EQd copies created during mastering, sometimes the label is not in possession of the original mixed tapes. This is something I encountered a lot while at Atlantic. The originals might be in a musicians private library or they might be in an overseas tape library. The label receives a flat copy of the original tape for use in creating the records or CDs they sell.

Is this important? There is no hard answer. A well made analog tape copy will exhibit a slight increase in background hiss and perhaps a very slight loss of transient speed. However, in my experience, these are of much smaller magnitude than the changes the mastering engineer is going to make. The question is much like asking whether purchasing produce from a gourmet shop will produce a better meal than purchasing it from a supermarket. If all other things are equal, I believe the answer would likely be yes. But all other things are rarely equal. If two different chefs prepare meals from the same ingredients, the results will often be quite different. Personally, Id rather choose the chef than the ingredients. Put another way, Id rather listen to a record George Piros mastered from a third generation copy than some other engineer might have mastered from the original studio mixes.

"Put another way, Id rather listen to a record George Piros mastered from a third generation copy than some other engineer might have mastered from the original studio mixes."

To the issue of provenance, I believe what many folks really want to know is less about what mic cable was used in the original recording and more about whether the resolution of the download they are purchasing is truly the resolution it is purported to be. Is it really 24/96 or really 24/192? Or is it merely 16/44 (CD resolution) delivered in a high resolution package?

On your Soundkeeper Recordings site, you recommend CD-Rs over CDs for those buyers who will play back their music on a transport or player yet you also recommend the CD for those buyers that intend to rip their music to hard drive. Could you explain why a CD-R is better than a CD when spinning a disc and why this difference doesn't matter when ripping and playing back from hard drive?

I wish I could explain why. Ive read a number of theories and some of them may or may not make sense.

From my earliest days in CD mastering, I always noticed that the finished CDs from different replication facilities all sound different from each other and none sounds indistinguishable from the CD master used to make it. Often, CDs made on different production lines within the same plant dont sound like each other either. In all cases, there is a loss of focus and fine detail, usually subtle, sometimes not so subtle.

When it came time to choose a plant to do Soundkeepers CDs, I spoke with a few dozen facilities. The one I ultimately chose was the only one which, without any prompting from me, did not claim their CDs sound exactly like the masters. It turns out, their CDs are the closest in my experience. I can still distinguish between the CD and the master from which it was made but with their discs, I need a synchronized playback against the master to discern the differences.

This plant cuts the glass master (the first step in CD production) in real time, instead of the more typical 4x or faster used by most other facilities nowadays. They also use a ~9 second injection molding cycle, rather than the more common ~4 second cycle. Whether these account for why their discs are more faithful, I dont know. Some say procedures like this make for better formed pits in the disc, making it easier for the player to read the disc with less jitter (i.e., timing errors). I dont know if this is the case but I do know I like the results.

With a well made CD-R (burned at relatively slow speed on a high quality blank), I find the results of playback in a CD transport or player sound closer to the CD master than even the best pressings in my experience.

I think something similar occurs with processes such as SHM, Blu-Spec and HQCD, where the processes are different from usual and sometimes the materials in the disc itself are different. I recently compared some of these with their plain CD counterparts. I was pretty surprised by the degree of difference I heard and found it to be so obvious, I would have bet I was listening to two different masterings, with different EQ!

To prove this, I extracted both the special disc and the plain CD to computer hard drive so I could perform a null test. In a null test, two digital files are synchronized (to the sample) and mixed together. The polarity of one of the files is reversed. What results is that everything the two files have in common, i.e., what is the same in the files, is cancelled (or nulled), leaving only what is different between the files. To my surprise, the result of the null test was dead silence. Listening to the two files from the computer resulted in both sounding indistinguishable from each other. It was a slightly clearer version of the better disc heard from the CD player. Whether commercial CD, special material or process CD or a fine CD-R, my experience has consistently been that extraction to computer and playback from there (as a raw PCM file in .aif or .wav format) gets me the true sound of the master.

"What I do know is that as an audio enthusiast, Ive always wanted to hear the master at home. With computer audio, this is finally a reality."

What is the difference between playback from a transport or player and playback from the computer? To create a CD, those ones and zeros of digital code must be further encoded, using a scheme referred to as 8:14 modulation. This is used to create the nine different length pits and land (the space between the pits) on the finished disc. Among other things, the player must spin the disc at the correct speed, track the spiral of pits, keeping the laser properly focused, read the disc, decode the 8:14 modulation, decode the resulting binary code, apply any necessary error correction, convert it to stereo analog signals and feed it to the outputs, often using a common power supply for all these functions. The computer, given something like a raw PCM file in .aif or .wav format, has a much simpler job. Whether all this accounts for the audible differences, I dont know for sure. What I do know is that as an audio enthusiast, Ive always wanted to hear the master at home. With computer audio, this is finally a reality.

With this in mind, if computer playback is the goal, the advantages CD-R has in transports and players are no longer there, hence, my recommendation of the less expensive CD to Soundkeeper customers who listen via their computers.

You have been vocal about your preference for recording, as well as delivering, your Soundkeeper Recordings in 24-bit/192kHz format. Why 24/192?

The reason is because I feel properly done 24/192 crosses a very important threshold. Over the years, Ive used all sorts of analog recorders and digital recorders but the output of these devices was always quite different sounding from the signal they received at their input.

Even the best 24/96 digital Ive heard, while certainly much better than 16/44 CD in terms of fidelity the input signal, still sounds very different to me than the input that is coming directly from the microphones.

"For the first time in my experience, those reservations I have always had about digital, where I felt there were some things the best analog did better, simply evaporated."

When I first heard properly done 24/192, it was a jaw dropper. For the first time in my experience, those reservations I have always had about digital, where I felt there were some things the best analog did better, simply evaporated. This is, to my ears, a bigger jump up in quality over 24/96 than that was over 16/44. It no longer feels like a great digital recorder or a great analog recorder. It feels like the recorder has been effectively removed from the equation and I am listening directly to the mic feed.

I mention properly done 24/192 because Ive heard a number of converters with these numbers on their spec sheet, which actually sound worse to me at this rate than they do at 24/96. This, I attribute to the significantly increased demands made by the higher rates on clocking accuracy and for wide band performance from the analog stages.

When the higher rates are well executed, the results are simply magical. Though I hear it throughout the range, perhaps surprisingly, I find many of its benefits particularly audible in the bass. The only downside Ive found so far is that I can no longer blame the gear for any flaws in my recordings. Of those, I must take full ownership.

There is continued discussion and controversy over dynamic range compression. Mainly, how do we know if a given recording has been compressed to the point of not being worth listening to or buying. Some people are using sites like the "Unofficial Dynamic Range Database" to gauge the level of dynamic compression used in a given recording and to help inform their purchase decisions. Do you have any advice for how to interpret things like a "DR Value" and generally does loudness, which you've written about, automatically equate to a poor sounding recording?

I very much applaud the efforts of the folks behind the Dynamic Range Database. I have long felt that preservation of musical dynamics (as opposed to their eradication in the ongoing Loudness Wars) is one of the last frontiers in recorded sound.

That said, I would hesitate to assign quality to a recording based on a number. While a low number will certainly indicate what many, including myself, would deem an undesirable curtailing of dynamics, a high number, in my view, is no guarantee of quality. It is important to remember tests like this are looking at only one aspect of what is a complex reality. For example, who cares if the dynamic range is high if the treble has been boosted to the point of being able to loosen dental fillings?

"Ultimately, in order to evaluate a recording, particularly how any individual might feel about that recording, I dont know of any substitute for actually listening."

As to whether loudness automatically equates to a poor sounding recording, I think this is a matter of degree. I have some recordings I consider good sounding but which are still compromised, in my opinion, by dynamic compression. I can only wonder how theyd sound if their dynamics were left unhindered. Personally, I think theyd be better but I should add that these recordings were not at all eviscerated to the point that many others are nowadays.

Ultimately, in order to evaluate a recording, particularly how any individual might feel about that recording, I dont know of any substitute for actually listening.

Beyond dynamic range and provenance, are there other important factors people should factor in when making music purchase decisions with an ear toward sound quality?

Keeping in mind that it is possible to have a high DR rating, with the source being the original recording itself and still end up with something that doesnt sound very good, were back to listening as the only real way to tell.

I think it would be a mistake to interpret a DR rating of 20 as, in and of itself, being better than a rating of 19. If they are two versions of the same recording, Id want to know the recording and mastering engineer for each, as that would tell me more than the numbers ever could.

Still, in the end, the recording has no other purpose than to be listened to, so Id rather hear a sample in order to know if I want to buy it.

Some audiophiles have a stated preference for a direct-from-master approach, meaning no EQ applied during the final mastering process. Is this the ideal?

In most cases, I would say it is not. While I understand and appreciate the sentiment, this is invariably suggested by folks who have not heard many (perhaps any) masters.

When I first started as an engineer, having been an audiophile first, I too believed EQ is bad and that all masters should be transferred flat (with no alteration). Then I learned how most records are really made and got to hear how many masters really sound.

One must consider the microphones used in most recordings and the colorations they bring to the results. Combine this with where the mics are placed (generally in places where the listener would not want to place their ear) and the fact that the signal will then be sent over long lengths of not-so-great cables, through dozens and dozens of switches and patch points and then adjusted to make the result, played back on not-so-great monitoring, sound right, is it any surprise that most recordings need help?

"Another thing to keep in mind is that there is EQ and there is EQ; I think it took me 15 years to learn how to use it invisibly."

Put another way, if Ive got a master that sounds thin, with a treble hyped to the point of keeping insects away and I can make the results sound less painful with EQ, I would find EQ to be quite a good thing. Another thing to keep in mind is that there is EQ and there is EQ; I think it took me 15 years to learn how to use it invisibly. The idea is, for example, to bring out the bite in a horn section, not to bring out 5 kHz. All too often, when we hear an EQd program, we hear the EQ more than we hear what it was trying to accomplish program-wise.

All that said, with some recordings, there is no need for EQ. Ive worked with mixes that came in sounding so right, they needed absolutely nothing. And with some recordings, which were made with the intention of capturing life - usually the minimally micd, purist recordings - there is also no need for EQ. In such cases, if no minor level adjustments are necessary, a straight from the master approach is the one Id choose.

I've seen you mention George Piros, the mastering engineer, on a number of occasions and was wondering if you could tell us a little about your experiences with him and why he's made such a lasting impression.

I had the very good fortune to work with George when we were both at Atlantic. He would often tell me of his days with Bob Fine and Wilma Cozart and the work they all did on the Mercury recordings, which I only later came to hear and then to love so much.

George is one of my engineering heroes, being one of the only mastering engineers I ever met who did not routinely add a compressor or limiter to his signal path. In fact, I never saw him patch one into his mastering channel.

I spent many an afternoon in his mastering room, watching him work and discussing audio and music. George always called it as he heard it, no matter who he was speaking with. I loved his directness and his passion. And no matter what, he always served the music.

One memory that will always stay with me came from a time shortly before George retired. I was walking past the outside of the padded, double-door airlock outside Georges room and heard some rocking music coming from inside. I entered the room and saw George bent over the lathe, peering into the microscope, looking at a groove he was cutting in a test lacquer... while AC/DC played at a level that could peel the paint from the walls.

Through George, I also got to meet Bert Whyte and Joe Grado, both of whom came up to Georges mastering room to work with him and share audio stories.

In addition to being involved on the recording and mastering side, you are also an audiophile. Do you think this helps inform some the choices you make in the recording studio?

It has always been key in everything Ive done as an engineer. From the realization of the critical importance of monitors and their setup to all the other components in the chain, being an audiophile has helped me develop as an engineer.

"It is why, when on an AES panel of CD mastering engineers in the early 80s, mine may have been the only voice in the room to (shyly at the time) declare my vinyl records still brought me closer to the music."

It has shaped my sensibilities in terms of what I want to achieve in my work and is the reason I refused to take part in the Loudness Wars. It is why, when on an AES panel of CD mastering engineers in the early 80s, mine may have been the only voice in the room to (shyly at the time) declare my vinyl records still brought me closer to the music.

And it is what led me to form Soundkeeper Recordings, where I believe Ive done my best work to date.

Are there an upcoming projects you'd like to share with us?

With Paul Beaudry & Pathways Americas released just last month, Im still in the promo phase for that project but there are a few new ones under consideration, which might come to pass later this year and see release in the next.

One is a reggae project - perhaps the worlds first purist reggae recording. Ive also proposed a project with a young alto saxophone player I heard last month, who really entranced me with his playing. Im always on the lookout for artists whose music moves me and who are interested in trying the recording without a net approach."

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 14, 2021 - 9:31am

 ColdMiser wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

So to keep myself busy and out of trouble, I have dived back into the vinyl full tilt.  Sold 4 albums in the past week and was just contacted by someone seeking me out to digitize / archive some of his vinyl. Just brought back into service my AT15SS cart with a brand new AT20Sla stylus. The music sounds so good again.  Yep, I'm wearing them out and these don't grow on trees anymore. Got a counter to keep track of the number of album sides played.   Also just found a new old stock AT20Sla cart/stylus and jumped on it.  The wife was even ok with it as she knows what it is and how rare.  Have one more NOS AT20N stylus sitting.  Might get one more to make sure I get to the finish line in the manner I've become accustomed to. Those 4 albums will help out now a lot.    And so it goes.


Where do you sell your vinyl Kurt? Discogs?
 
Yes, on Discogs.  My store.

I will sell direct to and discount for RPeeps.  Just sold my first press of The Wall, The Doors Waiting For The Sun on 45 RPM, The 50th of Lola and the Steven Wilson remix of Tull's Stand Up.

I try to add 3 to 5 albums a month to keep listings above 50 albums.  They all need to be play graded and ripped before listing.  Very time consuming but it is what I do.  And then when I buy something new, I have to drop what I am doing and play them immediately to make sure that they are acceptable.  50% have been unacceptable as of late and returns are a real PITA.  I am reripping The Doors album right now before it goes out the door because of the new stylus.

My collection from which I am pulling from.  Many have been sold but I keep them in my collection so I can refer to what the version is and the track listings.  Half of my collection is still unlisted.  Time is hard to manage anymore.
ColdMiser

ColdMiser Avatar

Location: On the Trail
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 14, 2021 - 7:19am

 kurtster wrote:

So to keep myself busy and out of trouble, I have dived back into the vinyl full tilt.  Sold 4 albums in the past week and was just contacted by someone seeking me out to digitize / archive some of his vinyl.

Just brought back into service my AT15SS cart with a brand new AT20Sla stylus. The music sounds so good again.  Yep, I'm wearing them out and these don't grow on trees anymore. Got a counter to keep track of the number of album sides played.   Also just found a new old stock AT20Sla cart/stylus and jumped on it.  The wife was even ok with it as she knows what it is and how rare.  Have one more NOS AT20N stylus sitting.  Might get one more to make sure I get to the finish line in the manner I've become accustomed to. Those 4 albums will help out now a lot.    And so it goes.


Where do you sell your vinyl Kurt? Discogs?

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