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Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 29, 2014 - 9:38am

 kurtster wrote:

kurtster wrote:
The US is now considering bringing infected foreign nationals here for treatment at an allocated cost of $200k for transport and $300k for the treatment itself.  This act of importing Ebola patients to the US is breaking news.


You sure read a lot into my statement that I didn't say.

But as you state, since its a Fox News story, it must be fake. 

Carry on ... 

 
I really wasn't trying to put words in your mouth (or more accurately: your keyboard), I saw that you wrote "considering", but more web coverage of that story treats it as a done deal which made me want to clarify what little details there were before it turned into some harum-scarum monkeyshines here in this thread.  So, in that respect, I did read more into it, but it was not my intent to allege any fear-mongering on your part. Obviously, I don't flatly consider Fox News output to all be fake, but when they (or anyone - Breitbart, MSNBC, etc.) are the single source of some "story", which is then rehashed (usually word-for-word) on all of their allied news/disinformation outlets, it arouses my suspicions.  It wouldn't surprise me if it were a real proposal; its getting approved would be more surprising.


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 29, 2014 - 9:27am

 Proclivities wrote:

Still, it's referring to an unconfirmed "memo" mysteriously "obtained" by Fox News (which contains the same glaringly misspelled word on every single page).  Every right-wing blog has some version of that story.  Even if real, as SFW pointed out, it is a proposal which largely suggests bringing foreign health care workers working for U.S. agencies.  Anyhow, I guess we'll find out soon enough.

 
kurtster wrote:
The US is now considering bringing infected foreign nationals here for treatment at an allocated cost of $200k for transport and $300k for the treatment itself.  This act of importing Ebola patients to the US is breaking news.


You sure read a lot into my statement that I didn't say.

But as you state, since its a Fox News story, it must be fake. 

Carry on ... 
Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 29, 2014 - 9:04am

 kurtster wrote: 
Still, it's referring to an unconfirmed "memo" mysteriously "obtained" by Fox News (which contains the same glaringly misspelled word on every single page).  Every right-wing blog has some version of that story.  Even if real, as SFW pointed out, it is a proposal which largely suggests bringing foreign health care workers working for U.S. agencies, but still - a proposal which does not appear to have been approved.  Anyhow, I guess we'll find out soon enough.


ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 29, 2014 - 8:56am

 Proclivities wrote:
Since the initial source of that story is Fox News, I have my reservations as to whether or not the alleged "proposal" is even authentic.
 
Well "foreign nationals" attempts to imply locals from western Africa, but the Proposal talks about aid workers specifically/only. If they're a non-US citizen but based in the US, it's worth establishing a policy as to whether that aid worker will be forced to be medevac'd to their home country or to the US.

My biggest worry is how somebody at State can't spell "predecisional." 
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 29, 2014 - 8:54am

 Proclivities wrote:

"A State Department official told Fox News that there are “absolutely no plans to MEDEVAC non-Americans who become ill from West Africa to the United States...We have discussed allowing other countries to use our MEDEVAC capabilities to evacuate their own citizens to their home countries or third-countries, subject to reimbursement and availability. But we are not contemplating bringing them back to the U.S. for treatment,” the official added. “Allegations to the contrary are completely false.”"
For now, it appears that the apparent proposal never it made it further than being just that, a proposal."

Since the initial source of that story is Fox News, I have my reservations as to whether or not the alleged "proposal" is even authentic.

 

State Department Memo: Non-American Citizens Who Get Ebola Should Be Brought to The U.S. For Treatment

Katie Pavlich | Oct 29, 2014
Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 29, 2014 - 8:44am

 kurtster wrote:
The US is now considering bringing infected foreign nationals here for treatment at an allocated cost of $200k for transport and $300k for the treatment itself.  This act of importing Ebola patients to the US is breaking news.
 
"A State Department official told Fox News that there are “absolutely no plans to MEDEVAC non-Americans who become ill from West Africa to the United States...We have discussed allowing other countries to use our MEDEVAC capabilities to evacuate their own citizens to their home countries or third-countries, subject to reimbursement and availability. But we are not contemplating bringing them back to the U.S. for treatment,” the official added. “Allegations to the contrary are completely false.”"
For now, it appears that the apparent proposal never it made it further than being just that, a proposal."

Since the initial source of that story (and exclusive source of that "memo") is Fox News, I have my reservations as to whether or not the alleged "proposal" is even authentic, but who knows for sure?


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 29, 2014 - 7:32am

 haresfur wrote:

It seems to be an underlying current in some of the proposed responses to the issue.  For example, Australia is unwilling to help with the medical response in Africa. My personal opinion is that helping with the crisis in E. Africa is most important thing we can do for long term security world-wide. Putting a wall around Africa or East Africa simply won't work, nor will putting a wall around either of our countries.  

And that means, among other things, treading a very careful line with how medical personnel are treated if they have potentially had contact with the disease. IMO they are effin heroes and should be supported in their work at home and abroad, and when they get back.  I'm not a medical expert and I think that even the experts are still figuring some most of this out, but you shouldn't take away liberty unnecessarily.

People don't cause ebola, viruses cause ebola (or something like that {#Think} )

 
I agree with this statement.  The deeper we get into this the more we find what we don't know.  The nurse who was initially isolated in a tent in a hospital parking lot in New Jersey bordered on cruel and unusual punishment, imho.  But that feeling is based upon the conditions of the isolation, not the idea of isolation or quarantine itself.  There is also a difference between quarantine and isolation in legal and medical terminology as I have come to learn.  The two terms are not interchangeable.  

There is plenty of precedent for public health quarantines in this country.  Is the Australian policy a good one ?  You tell me.  Here in the US there are only 9 to 11 (depending on source) hospital beds designated as fully capable to treat Ebola.  How many does Australia have ?  And there is the money.  The US is now considering bringing infected foreign nationals here for treatment at an allocated cost of $200k for transport and $300k for the treatment itself.  This act of importing Ebola patients to the US is breaking news.

 
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 29, 2014 - 4:42am

 haresfur wrote:

Of course your idea of necessary and mine could be quite different, eh?

... and which liberties are necessary...

 

Of this I have absolutely no doubt.{#Yes}
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 29, 2014 - 4:30am

 sirdroseph wrote:


{#Think}Please to always keep that in mind.  Philosophical consistency is a beautiful thing in my world.

 
Of course your idea of necessary and mine could be quite different, eh?

... and which liberties are necessary...


sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 29, 2014 - 4:13am

 haresfur wrote:

It seems to be an underlying current in some of the proposed responses to the issue.  For example, Australia is unwilling to help with the medical response in Africa. My personal opinion is that helping with the crisis in E. Africa is most important thing we can do for long term security world-wide. Putting a wall around Africa or East Africa simply won't work, nor will putting a wall around either of our countries.  

And that means, among other things, treading a very careful line with how medical personnel are treated if they have potentially had contact with the disease. IMO they are effin heroes and should be supported in their work at home and abroad, and when they get back.  I'm not a medical expert and I think that even the experts are still figuring some of this out, but you shouldn't take away liberty unnecessarily.

People don't cause ebola, viruses cause ebola (or something like that {#Think} )

 

{#Think}Please to always keep that in mind.  Philosophical consistency is a beautiful thing in my world.
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 28, 2014 - 9:14pm

 kurtster wrote:

Eh ?  Where did that come from ?

 
It seems to be an underlying current in some of the proposed responses to the issue.  For example, Australia is unwilling to help with the medical response in Africa. My personal opinion is that helping with the crisis in E. Africa is most important thing we can do for long term security world-wide. Putting a wall around Africa or East Africa simply won't work, nor will putting a wall around either of our countries.  

And that means, among other things, treading a very careful line with how medical personnel are treated if they have potentially had contact with the disease. IMO they are effin heroes and should be supported in their work at home and abroad, and when they get back.  I'm not a medical expert and I think that even the experts are still figuring some of this out, but you shouldn't take away liberty unnecessarily.

People don't cause ebola, viruses cause ebola (or something like that {#Think} )
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 28, 2014 - 7:23pm

 haresfur wrote:

I read that it is dependent on the strain, like the flu.  If that is correct, it depends on how fast it mutates to something you are no longer immune to.  I think that is also why they were trying transfusions from people who had survived. But we are a long way from having the same amount of ebola in the world as influenza so it is really important to knock it back world-wide, rather than assuming xenophobia will work.

 
Eh ?  Where did that come from ?
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 28, 2014 - 6:57pm

 kurtster wrote:
So if you get Ebola and live ... are you now immune ?

The answer appears to be yes ...

Copy and paste the title below in google and search for the WSJ article.  Then click on the result to read the article.

 Ebola Survivors Return to Comfort Other Patients in Liberia ...

 



 
I read that it is dependent on the strain, like the flu.  If that is correct, it depends on how fast it mutates to something you are no longer immune to.  I think that is also why they were trying transfusions from people who had survived. But we are a long way from having the same amount of ebola in the world as influenza so it is really important to knock it back world-wide, rather than assuming xenophobia will work.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 28, 2014 - 6:48pm

So if you get Ebola and live ... are you now immune ?

The answer appears to be yes ...

Copy and paste the title below in google and search for the WSJ article.  Then click on the result to read the article.

 Ebola Survivors Return to Comfort Other Patients in Liberia ...

 


R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Oct 26, 2014 - 5:27pm

Want Ebola? Supplies Are Running Out, And It's So Soft And Cuddly
expertTexpert

expertTexpert Avatar

Location: Waiting for the van to come


Posted: Oct 26, 2014 - 2:11pm

 kurtster wrote:

I guess you missed the whole point of the post, which was to look at the my source is better than your source because mine has less hyperbole.

Oh well.  I'm not going to dwell on it.
 
That train has already left the station.


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 26, 2014 - 8:36am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
On the readability of both articles, while your article fleshed out at a higher grade level via Word analysis @ grade level 9.4, its reading ease was much more difficult @ 60.5 and had an 18% passive sentence content  compared to Dave's article which came in at grade 7.9 , reading ease higher @ 68.5  and only 8% passive sentences. 

This might just be your most breathtakingly WTF post ever. Ever.

 
I guess you missed the whole point of the post, which was to look at the my source is better than your source because mine has less hyperbole.

Oh well.  I'm not going to dwell on it.

 
Coaxial

Coaxial Avatar

Location: 543 miles west of Paradis,1491 miles eas
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 26, 2014 - 8:26am

Now I'm being told that my earlier post isn't actually correct...The reason the numbers are down is that the people are keeping their sick relatives at home, causing more sickness, to circumvent the rule that all bodies must be cremated.{#Frown}
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 26, 2014 - 8:15am

 kurtster wrote:
On the readability of both articles, while your article fleshed out at a higher grade level via Word analysis @ grade level 9.4, its reading ease was much more difficult @ 60.5 and had an 18% passive sentence content  compared to Dave's article which came in at grade 7.9 , reading ease higher @ 68.5  and only 8% passive sentences. 

This might just be your most breathtakingly WTF post ever. Ever.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 26, 2014 - 7:54am

 Steely_D wrote:
DaveInVA wrote:

Ebola, A Nurse’s Perspective



  
She's having trouble with some facts, but none with hyperbole.

Better->

Reality Check: How People Catch Ebola, And How They Don’t

 
Since your main criticism of Dave's article focused on style, let's compare ...

On the readability of both articles, while your article fleshed out at a higher grade level via Word analysis @ grade level 9.4, its reading ease was much more difficult @ 60.5 and had an 18% passive sentence content  compared to Dave's article which came in at grade 7.9 , reading ease higher @ 68.5  and only 8% passive sentences.

Your focus on hyperbole is fascinating.  Its your basis for discrediting the article ...

Know Your Readers - Get the Grade Level Right

When people pick up something they cannot understand, they put it down, call support, or go do something else, often without reflecting on what just happened. Such results mark a complete failure of communication, a waste of money mounting to billions of dollars yearly.

What is the average reading grade-level in the United States?


eighth grade


According to Research for Practice by Elizabeth H. Winslow and Ann F. Jacobson, The American Journal of Nursing, Vol. 98, No. 7 (Jul., 1998), pp. 55+57   http://www.jstor.org/pss/3471613

.

"Summarizing several studies done in the United States and Canada, the average reading skill level was estimated to be at around the 8th to 9th grade (University of Utah Health Sciences Center). However, this same study found that about one in five adults had a reading skill level at the 5th grade level or below."http://www.humanfactors.com/downloads/jun02.asp

.

But it's interesting to note that:

  • many newspapers and magazines are written to a 9th grade level;
  • USA Today, New York Times, and the New Yorker are written to a 10th grade level; 
  • The Times of India is the least readable, at a 15th grade level.
  • John Grisham, Tom Clancy, Michael Crichton, Stephen King, and Clive Cussler write at a 7th grade level;
  • Romance novels are often written at a 5th grade level

 http://www.impact-information.com/impactinfo/newsletter/plwork15.htm


More ...
what is the reading grade level of these newspapers? The New York Times, USA Today, and THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
 


So I find the nurse's article more meaningful and more informative with more practical information.  It did not contradict your article in the way you inferred, rather your article seemed to reinforce the information contained in the nurse's blog.  I found the nurse's article more informative, soothing and reassuring than your article for one primary reason, it projected street smarts, while your article was from a lofty source isolated in Ivory Tower research.

All this objection to hyperbole is most disconcerting, especially when I found very little present in the nurse's article.  One of the main criticisms I face here is usage of hyperbole.  Well I'm not writing any technical reports here and this nurse was not writing one either.  I can and have maxed out the grade word grade level at 12 many times in school papers and tech papers, but so flippin what ... 

You'll be happy to know that the two above paragraphs checked out at grade 11.9, reading ease of 44.8 and 0% passive sentences !

So what do I get ?  

I've long been tired of grammar police and I'm getting even more tired of the hyperbole police.  Living in a glass house, I never call out anyone on their grammar or style.  

I'm most tired of those who shoot the messenger and ignore the message.  I am not innocent of this practice, yet I do try and avoid it as much as possible.

Oh and on your isolation policy for your biz ... be careful, holding someone against their will should they resist can lead to a kidnapping charge.  That from an Ohio State Trooper to me back in 1990 something, when he came to deal with a vandal I caught in the act out on the Ohio Turnpike at my plaza and locked him up while waiting for the trooper to arrive.  But that was 20 years ago ...  The risk of ending up being charged for restraining someone against their will is prolly much higher now than back in the good old days. 

You may wish to consult with an attorney on your potential isolation policy.  Me, I would tell them to go to a hospital and call the cops.
 




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