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islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 23, 2021 - 7:15am

 rgio wrote:

It's not just Trump.  States have been giving money away to "create jobs" for years, and those programs NEVER reward the local community.   I negotiated several of them for a former employer, and they are literally taxpayer-funded campaign fodder.  They are a terrible deal, but people who don't know any better see "the Governor created XXXX jobs" and believe it.



Yep. Boeing got billions here and subsequently shrunk operations and moved jobs to other lower cost areas.  Now their tax payer funded infrastructure sits underutilized and the revenues from the expected jobs/operations are no where to be seen.   At least Amazons money does trickle around if you are in the right place. 


rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 23, 2021 - 7:02am

 maryte wrote:

Sales tax (another regressive tax) is 8.25% here in Austin/Travis County. And the high property taxes are made worse in some areas of Texas (like Austin/Travis County) by skyrocketing property values.  People often think increasing property values is always a good thing.  If you want to sell your house (or flip a property), sure.  If you want to actually live in the house and, maybe, just maybe, retire in it, not so much.



Rising property values don't impact most people's real estate taxes, as the rate is based on the revenue required over total property values.  If all values increase 5%, and the expense of the government went up 2%.... your taxes would only increase 2%.  There are obviously winners and losers every time there is a re-assessment or change, but property value increases have little to do with real estate tax growth.

maryte

maryte Avatar

Location: Blinding You With Library Science!
Gender: Female


Posted: Apr 23, 2021 - 6:32am

 rgio wrote:

Your property taxes are lower than NJ, and we have an income tax rate of up to 10.5%, none of which is deductible because of the state and local (SALT) limit of $10k.  Texas is only behind NJ and NH in terms of property tax rate per % of home value.

I live in the town I was raised and am seriously thinking about crossing over to PA (10 mins away).  


EDIT- you have to look at all taxes...sales tax, gas tax, etc.  Texas sales tax is high at 8.19% avg.  NJ is 6.6%

Sales tax (another regressive tax) is 8.25% here in Austin/Travis County. And the high property taxes are made worse in some areas of Texas (like Austin/Travis County) by skyrocketing property values.  People often think increasing property values is always a good thing.  If you want to sell your house (or flip a property), sure.  If you want to actually live in the house and, maybe, just maybe, retire in it, not so much.


rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 23, 2021 - 6:17am

 davidharper wrote:

because of the Trump tax cuts these companies paid zero income tax for 2018 ;

    Amazon
    Chevron
    Levi-Strauss
    Netflix
    Delta airlines
    General Motors
    Halliburton  
    IBM
    Goodyear
    Honeywell
    Occidental Petrolium

and this is only a small sample          


It's not just Trump.  States have been giving money away to "create jobs" for years, and those programs NEVER reward the local community.   I negotiated several of them for a former employer, and they are literally taxpayer-funded campaign fodder.  They are a terrible deal, but people who don't know any better see "the Governor created XXXX jobs" and believe it.

davidharper



Posted: Apr 23, 2021 - 6:07am

because of the Trump tax cuts these companies paid zero income tax for 2018 ;

    Amazon
    Chevron
    Levi-Strauss
    Netflix
    Delta airlines
    General Motors
    Halliburton  
    IBM
    Goodyear
    Honeywell
    Occidental Petrolium

and this is only a small sample          
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 23, 2021 - 6:00am

 maryte wrote:


It's incredible to me how many people think it's great that Texas has no income tax (which is progressive) without realizing how horrifying (and MUCH higher) our property taxes (a regressive tax) are.  We'll get a small break when dio turns 65, but it's bad enough that I'm considering where we might move when we retire, as the ever-increasing property taxes here will be taking an ever-increasing portion of retirement money, whereas an income tax would not.

Your property taxes are lower than NJ, and we have an income tax rate of up to 10.5%, none of which is deductible because of the state and local (SALT) limit of $10k.  Texas is only behind NJ and NH in terms of property tax rate per % of home value.

I live in the town I was raised and am seriously thinking about crossing over to PA (10 mins away).  


EDIT- you have to look at all taxes...sales tax, gas tax, etc.  Texas sales tax is high at 8.19% avg.  NJ is 6.6%
maryte

maryte Avatar

Location: Blinding You With Library Science!
Gender: Female


Posted: Apr 23, 2021 - 5:55am

 islander wrote:


 
 
It's incredible to me how few people know what their effective tax rate is. Also what it goes to (especially property taxes).



It's incredible to me how many people think it's great that Texas has no income tax (which is progressive) without realizing how horrifying (and MUCH higher) our property taxes (a regressive tax) are.  We'll get a small break when dio turns 65, but it's bad enough that I'm considering where we might move when we retire, as the ever-increasing property taxes here will be taking an ever-increasing portion of retirement money, whereas an income tax would not.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 23, 2021 - 5:39am

 miamizsun wrote:

maybe the tax code is crazy for a reason? lol

complexity always hurts the little guy and the nebulous mass of that code gives cover to corruption

it's a mess and a ton of time, money and resources are tossed down that rabbit hole

might be time for a simplified tax system
with a prebate

There are too many lobbyists supporting the tax industry to allow this to happen.

I have been working in and out of the tax industry for 40 years, and returns this year are so foolishly complex that it's mind-numbing.   The less money you make, the harder it is to comply.  The countless forms and their interdependencies grow and grow.  Now health insurance premiums and stimulus and educational credits...etc....etc...all funnel through the forms. 

I just saw on CNBC that the Biden cap gain rates will be in the mid 50% range in NY, NJ and CA, and one tax think-tank calculated the move would cost money (not generate revenue), because the hyper-rich will change their income type to avoid the tax (I assume turn cap gain income to ordinary).

The tax problem now is that it doesn't need to be bigger....or smaller...it needs to be better.  Efficiency is a threat to every job on the planet, and government workers are not going to improve themselves out of existence.  Real change is going to require a tech-savvy leadership that can implement real change.  It's happened in most of the world, but the US has been too stable for too long, and hasn't prioritized tax system upgrades.

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 23, 2021 - 4:13am

 islander wrote:
I frequently have this argument discussion with people. It makes me crazy.  Financial literacy should be required education.
 
maybe the tax code is crazy for a reason? lol

complexity always hurts the little guy and the nebulous mass of that code gives cover to corruption

it's a mess and a ton of time, money and resources are tossed down that rabbit hole

might be time for a simplified tax system with a prebate
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Apr 22, 2021 - 6:38pm

Biden to float historic tax increase on investment gains for the rich
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 5, 2019 - 8:24am



ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 islander wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 Red_Dragon wrote:
 

It's incredible how many wealthy people think they're being asked to pay XX% of everything. I remember Joan Rivers saying on national TV that she paid accountants to find tax dodges and voted republican because her tax rate was (whatever) and "I'll be damned if I'm going to pay 2/3 of my income to taxes." or something like that.
 
It's incredible to me how few people know what their effective tax rate is. Also what it goes to (especially property taxes).

 

I worked with a guy who was pretty senior in the union, and Christmas was coming up. He had the option of working 4 paid holidays between then and the end of the year, raking in double time and also picking up some other shifts and I was more than a little bit jealous, but then he said he couldn't work it because it would push him into the next tax bracket and he'd wind up losing money.




I frequently have this argument discussion with people. It makes me crazy.  Financial literacy should be required education.


ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 5, 2019 - 7:55am



 islander wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 Red_Dragon wrote:
 

It's incredible how many wealthy people think they're being asked to pay XX% of everything. I remember Joan Rivers saying on national TV that she paid accountants to find tax dodges and voted republican because her tax rate was (whatever) and "I'll be damned if I'm going to pay 2/3 of my income to taxes." or something like that.
 
It's incredible to me how few people know what their effective tax rate is. Also what it goes to (especially property taxes).

 

I worked with a guy who was pretty senior in the union, and Christmas was coming up. He had the option of working 4 paid holidays between then and the end of the year, raking in double time and also picking up some other shifts and I was more than a little bit jealous, but then he said he couldn't work it because it would push him into the next tax bracket and he'd wind up losing money.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 5, 2019 - 6:43am



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 Red_Dragon wrote:
 

It's incredible how many wealthy people think they're being asked to pay XX% of everything. I remember Joan Rivers saying on national TV that she paid accountants to find tax dodges and voted republican because her tax rate was (whatever) and "I'll be damned if I'm going to pay 2/3 of my income to taxes." or something like that.
 
It's incredible to me how few people know what their effective tax rate is. Also what it goes to (especially property taxes).

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 5, 2019 - 4:13am

 black321 wrote:
It's a cheap trick the republicans make to steal votes. I'm not saying i dont like low taxes, or that low taxes are the best thing for the economy, society...but until you balance the budget, it's irresponsible.  
 

political power 101

find a scapegoat (or boogeyman)



black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 1, 2019 - 7:28am



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 Red_Dragon wrote:
 

It's incredible how many wealthy people think they're being asked to pay XX% of everything. I remember Joan Rivers saying on national TV that she paid accountants to find tax dodges and voted republican because her tax rate was (whatever) and "I'll be damned if I'm going to pay 2/3 of my income to taxes." or something like that.
 

It's a cheap trick the republicans make to steal votes. I'm not saying i dont like low taxes, or that low taxes are the best thing for the economy, society...but until you balance the budget, it's irresponsible.  
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 1, 2019 - 7:21am



 Red_Dragon wrote:
 

It's incredible how many wealthy people think they're being asked to pay XX% of everything. I remember Joan Rivers saying on national TV that she paid accountants to find tax dodges and voted republican because her tax rate was (whatever) and "I'll be damned if I'm going to pay 2/3 of my income to taxes." or something like that.
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Nov 1, 2019 - 6:48am

Taxing High Incomes: A Comparison of 41 Countries
ErikX

ErikX Avatar



Posted: Feb 28, 2013 - 10:35pm

How FDR Would Bring Back America’s Middle Class: Tax the Rich

 

CLOSING THE INCOME GAP - Yes we have been here before.

 

Capitalism is an economic system that values the accumulation of wealth. In free-market economics, governmental regulation should be as little as possible. The combination of capitalism and the laissez faire, free-market economy has brought the United States to a major imbalance of wealth distribution. 

Today, CEOs make more than 400 times the salaries of the average worker. 

The bankers and corporate owners have worked hard to change laws and regulations that allow them to keep their wealth at levels not seen since the 1920s.

In the 1930s, the United States suffered a similar financial crisis. One percent of the population owned most of the nation's wealth. Laissez faire economic philosophy had reduced government regulation, allowed for risk-taking and created financial bubbles. In 1929, the markets dropped, which kicked off the Great Depression. That crisis was even worse than today's, mainly because unemployment was at 24 percent and there weren't any government programs in place that helped people get back on their feet. 

A New Theory

Recovery from the Great Depression came from President Franklin Delano Roosevelt's turning away from laissez faire economics and embracing Keynesian economic theory. When the private sector failed, the government funded programs that kept the economy growing. With Francis Perkins, the first female Secretary of Labor, programs like Social Security and unemployment insurance were created.

The National Industrial Recovery Act gave communities money to hire people to work and create useful community buildings, like post offices. For each person hired by the program, another person was hired by private business because getting people back to work created demand for goods and services again. It was the NIRA that first encouraged workers to collectively bargain for wages and work conditions, followed by the National Labor Relations Act in 1935.

U.S. citizens were protected from financial disaster with the creation of the Glass-Steagall Act in 1933, which separated commercial and investment banks. A year later, the Securities and Exchange Commission was created to watch the stock market and protected investors.

President FDR was from the 1% and supportive of capitalism, but he was forced to look at different economic theories due to the growing number of unions and socialist and communist political groups. People started to believe in their government and to think that the government should provide opportunity for all, instead of just for the wealthy and corporations. 

How did Roosevelt Pay for It?

In the 1930s, Roosevelt went to the wealthy and convinced them that they would have to pay more into the system to help the economy recover and to stop the hundreds of strikes per year by the workers. Roosevelt's plan was to tax the wealthy 100% on any earnings over $25,000 per year. The wealthy ultimately agreed to a major tax hike. The Revenue Act of 1942 forced America's wealthiest to pay taxes on income over $200,000 at a tax rate well over 90 percent. 

Today, the tables have turned. The wealthy pay a mere 15 percent on their capital gains income. This is compared to worker's payroll taxes, which are 25 to 35 percent of our earnings. With all of the loopholes, the wealthy, especially corporations, may even get money from the government. Only seven percent of the workforce is unionized. Socialism is demonized as a threat to capitalism and the rule of the 1%. Protecting American interests in the United States and abroad really means protecting the interests of corporations, not the safety of our citizens. 

How Did We Get Here?  

Years of legislation have undermined unions, reduced funding for government agencies, and rolled back laws that regulate industry and protect our natural resources. Laws friendly to Wall Street have returned us to laissez faire economics. We lost the Glass-Steagall Act in the 1990s. Corporate and capital gains taxes have gone down over the years.

I urge you to check out the movie "Koch Brothers Exposed" and Bill Moyers's "The United States of ALEC" to see how we have lost our democracy. Today, corporations and our politicians work for the benefit of corporations—not people. The people need to demand the return of democracy.

 

(Virginia "Ginny" Anders-Ellmore is an LA County Nurse Practitioner.)

http://www.citywatchla.com/8br-hidden/4597-how-fdr-would-bring-back-america-s-middle-class-tax-the-rich 


ajlept

ajlept Avatar

Location: Athens, GA
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 28, 2013 - 7:55pm

Possibly my only contribution here... I have no problem with success when it involves supplying a product or invention for the masses (or that benefits us via medicine, etc.). But, making an insane amount of income by "playing games" with companies by "absorbing" them with pennies on the dollar is borderline criminal and definitely unethical. I have never been a fan of those people who make money from money (like insurance, investments, etc.). Either you invent, manufacture, or sell a product to make money, or your provide a service like repair or maintenance.  Everything else is extortion!
ErikX

ErikX Avatar



Posted: Feb 28, 2013 - 12:43pm

 miamizsun wrote:

and you forgot that he makes more than the entire country of Ethiopia too

 
It is unlikey any of them make $31 billion a year which is Ethiopia's GDP even though the average income per year is probably less than $500 a year. . If you take the US median household income of $50,000 and multiply it by 60,000 that equals

$3 billion a year. 

I think the guy's picture might be this guy who made a record $5 billion in 2010.
 This Man Made $5B Last Year

JOHN PAULSON SCORES BIG WITH MERELY DECENT PERFORMANCE

(NEWSER) – Hedge-fund manager John Paulson personally raked in $5 billion in profits in 2010, which is “likely the largest one-year haul in investing history,” according to the Wall Street Journal, beating even the nearly $4 billion Paulson made betting against subprime mortgages in 2007. To put the number in perspective, Goldman Sachs paid its employees a total of $8.35 billion last year, split among 36,000 people.

Paulson's gains came after a merely strong performance, not a spectacular one like he had in 2007, when Paulson's funds gained as much as 590%. Last year “wasn’t the greatest trade of all time, but to manage more than $30 billion and still have gains topping 30% is very rare in the hedge-fund business,” says one New York investment insider. Paulson's strategy revolved around betting big on gold. Most of his payday, $4 billion of it, came from investing in his own funds.Paulson & Company, Inc. President John Alfred Paulson testifies on Capitol Hill in this file photo.




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