[ ]   [ ]   [ ]                        [ ]      [ ]   [ ]

Bitcoin - kurtster - Oct 16, 2021 - 10:47pm
 
Mixtape Culture Club - Lazy8 - Oct 16, 2021 - 10:26pm
 
Baseball, anyone? - ScottFromWyoming - Oct 16, 2021 - 8:57pm
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - Oct 16, 2021 - 7:52pm
 
True Confessions - Red_Dragon - Oct 16, 2021 - 4:49pm
 
Outstanding Covers - Ohmsen - Oct 16, 2021 - 4:44pm
 
And the good news is.... - Red_Dragon - Oct 16, 2021 - 4:27pm
 
Gotta Get Your Drink On - haresfur - Oct 16, 2021 - 3:54pm
 
Live Music - R_P - Oct 16, 2021 - 3:10pm
 
songs that ROCK! - Ohmsen - Oct 16, 2021 - 2:30pm
 
More reggae, less Marley please - Ohmsen - Oct 16, 2021 - 2:04pm
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - Red_Dragon - Oct 16, 2021 - 1:28pm
 
Trump - Red_Dragon - Oct 16, 2021 - 1:08pm
 
Oregon - politics - westslope - Oct 16, 2021 - 9:24am
 
That's good advice - oldviolin - Oct 16, 2021 - 8:00am
 
COVID-19 - miamizsun - Oct 16, 2021 - 7:55am
 
How To Be Politically Correct, A Primer - miamizsun - Oct 16, 2021 - 7:49am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - miamizsun - Oct 16, 2021 - 7:03am
 
Regarding dogs - Antigone - Oct 16, 2021 - 5:20am
 
Things You Thought Today - Red_Dragon - Oct 15, 2021 - 9:16pm
 
Great Old Songs You Rarely Hear Anymore - KurtfromLaQuinta - Oct 15, 2021 - 8:26pm
 
RightWingNutZ - R_P - Oct 15, 2021 - 7:56pm
 
Best.Idea.Ever. - Red_Dragon - Oct 15, 2021 - 7:37pm
 
Apps turning itself on at night!night! - jarro - Oct 15, 2021 - 6:16pm
 
Joe Biden - R_P - Oct 15, 2021 - 4:32pm
 
Radio Paradise NFL Pick'em Group - olivertwist - Oct 15, 2021 - 4:03pm
 
What Did You See Today? - Antigone - Oct 15, 2021 - 3:37pm
 
If not RP, what are you listening to right now? - miamizsun - Oct 15, 2021 - 2:36pm
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Oct 15, 2021 - 1:00pm
 
Talk Behind Their Backs Forum - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Oct 15, 2021 - 12:30pm
 
Britain - davidrsim - Oct 15, 2021 - 12:12pm
 
Lyrics That Remind You of Someone - oldviolin - Oct 15, 2021 - 12:09pm
 
Get the Quote - primm - Oct 15, 2021 - 11:48am
 
Oh GOD, they're GAY! - miamizsun - Oct 15, 2021 - 8:21am
 
Democratic Party - westslope - Oct 15, 2021 - 8:03am
 
Have you planned your Halloween costume yet?? - sirdroseph - Oct 15, 2021 - 7:24am
 
Today in History - Red_Dragon - Oct 15, 2021 - 6:48am
 
Rolling Stones - sirdroseph - Oct 15, 2021 - 3:18am
 
BillyGee's Greatest Segues - ScottN - Oct 14, 2021 - 8:31pm
 
Name My Band - Manbird - Oct 14, 2021 - 5:26pm
 
Taxes, Taxes, Taxes (and Taxes) - islander - Oct 14, 2021 - 4:17pm
 
Derplahoma! - Red_Dragon - Oct 14, 2021 - 1:59pm
 
Health Care - Red_Dragon - Oct 14, 2021 - 9:03am
 
Strange signs, marquees, billboards, etc. - Ohmsen - Oct 14, 2021 - 8:03am
 
NORGE (Norway) - Ohmsen - Oct 14, 2021 - 6:39am
 
Economix - Ohmsen - Oct 14, 2021 - 6:12am
 
Counting with Pictures - ScottN - Oct 14, 2021 - 6:10am
 
Unresearched Conspiracy Theories - Ohmsen - Oct 14, 2021 - 6:01am
 
Unquiet Minds - Mental Health Forum - miamizsun - Oct 14, 2021 - 4:45am
 
Terrorist Watch! - Red_Dragon - Oct 14, 2021 - 4:37am
 
Africa!! - sirdroseph - Oct 14, 2021 - 4:30am
 
Country Up The Bumpkin - oldviolin - Oct 13, 2021 - 9:25pm
 
Australia has Disappeared - whatshisname - Oct 13, 2021 - 6:55pm
 
Alexa won't play RP except on Tune-in - jarro - Oct 13, 2021 - 12:47pm
 
Shuttle, ISS and other Real Space Ships - ScottFromWyoming - Oct 13, 2021 - 11:19am
 
kurtster's quiet vinyl - black321 - Oct 13, 2021 - 11:16am
 
TV shows you watch - marko86 - Oct 13, 2021 - 9:08am
 
What Makes You Cry :) ? - Jiggz - Oct 13, 2021 - 8:22am
 
THREE WORDS - Ohmsen - Oct 12, 2021 - 10:56pm
 
Immigration - Ohmsen - Oct 12, 2021 - 10:42pm
 
possible to ban an artist from my streams ? - oldviolin - Oct 12, 2021 - 8:11pm
 
Free Stuff & Swap - oldviolin - Oct 12, 2021 - 8:10pm
 
• • • Clownstock • • •  - Manbird - Oct 12, 2021 - 7:52pm
 
Poetry Forum - Antigone - Oct 12, 2021 - 4:19pm
 
Canada - westslope - Oct 12, 2021 - 3:59pm
 
260,000 Posts in one thread? - oldviolin - Oct 12, 2021 - 11:52am
 
YouTube: Music-Videos - Steely_D - Oct 12, 2021 - 11:13am
 
Race in America - black321 - Oct 12, 2021 - 10:03am
 
The War On You - Ohmsen - Oct 12, 2021 - 9:41am
 
Jazz - black321 - Oct 12, 2021 - 9:26am
 
what the hell, miamizsun? - miamizsun - Oct 12, 2021 - 4:09am
 
What makes you smile? - Steely_D - Oct 11, 2021 - 7:54pm
 
What Makes You Sad? - Antigone - Oct 11, 2021 - 2:48pm
 
Cryptic Posts - Leave Them Guessing - oldviolin - Oct 11, 2021 - 2:19pm
 
Photography Forum - Your Own Photos - oldviolin - Oct 11, 2021 - 2:14pm
 
Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » The War On You Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 74, 75, 76  Next
Post to this Topic
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 16, 2021 - 9:22am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
reaching out and talking it through... ad nauseam if need be.. as one does... so how's your day so far?

Took a break from arguing over the internet for the weekend (which went splendidly, thank you, other than some bad news about being able to start dancing next month) and it seems a longer response to this went away. I'll try and flesh out what I was looking for a bit.

The first rule of credibility: If you want to be believed, don't lie.

Governments at all levels in many countries have squandered any credibility they ever had by lying, dissembling, and in ways large and small failing to trust their populations with the truth. One of the drivers of high vaccination rates around the world (distribution problems aside) is that people who trust what their governments are saying have generally trusted the vaccines. This goes beyond ideology or politics; if the prime minister (or whoever) gets in front of the populace and says "This is important, and we need you to roll up your sleeves and help out" and people don't have ample reason to think s/he's lying they will likely cooperate.

While the time to build credibility is before you need it the pandemic was an opportunity to build it. An opportunity squandered. And it will make the next emergency harder to deal with and the next disease outbreak deadlier.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Aug 14, 2021 - 5:59am

 sirdroseph wrote:

B I N G O and bingo was his nameo.

I also include how my actions may impact others in the cost-benefit analysis. 



sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 14, 2021 - 5:05am

 steeler wrote:
 sirdroseph wrote:

I am concerned about both, they are not mutually exclusive.

Never said they were. It is a cost-benefit analysis.
 
B I N G O and bingo was his nameo.
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 13, 2021 - 7:21am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

oh grief, looks like I really got up people's noses with my accusation of needing a teddy and a hot chocolate. 

{#Lol}


Maybe I'll just shout us all a round of hot chocolate... 
 


well that was directed out into the universe 
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 13, 2021 - 7:16am

 miamizsun wrote:
 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

reaching out and talking it through... ad nauseam if need be.. as one does... so how's your day so far?
 


real dialogue? 
the problem with engaging people and honestly addressing concerns is that it will likely lead to an amiable solution
in the early stages that could be very uncomfortable or challenging for those locked into foolish political narratives
initial conversations should be open, non-threatening and tolerant of all beliefs
build a little trust, good will and work forward from there? a recipe for success?
i'll engage almost anyone as long as hey are sincere and civil
obviously hateful speech, grave dancing, finger pointing and insults are not going to get us the desired outcome
unfortunately there are a lot of folks that buy into that dogma
the results are on display, yet people may not understand why they're not effective
i think if you're persistent you will be doing the world a great service
good luck
 
oh grief, looks like I really got up people's noses with my accusation of needing a teddy and a hot chocolate. 

{#Lol}

Maybe I'll just shout us all a round of hot chocolate... 
 
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 13, 2021 - 6:29am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

reaching out and talking it through... ad nauseam if need be.. as one does... so how's your day so far?
 


real dialogue? 
the problem with engaging people and honestly addressing concerns is that it will likely lead to an amiable solution
in the early stages that could be very uncomfortable or challenging for those locked into foolish political narratives
initial conversations should be open, non-threatening and tolerant of all beliefs
build a little trust, good will and work forward from there? a recipe for success?
i'll engage almost anyone as long as hey are sincere and civil
obviously hateful speech, grave dancing, finger pointing and insults are not going to get us the desired outcome
unfortunately there are a lot of folks that buy into that dogma
the results are on display, yet people may not understand why they're not effective
i think if you're persistent you will be doing the world a great service
good luck

steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Aug 13, 2021 - 5:32am

 sirdroseph wrote:

I am concerned about both, they are not mutually exclusive.

Never said they were. It is a cost-benefit analysis.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 13, 2021 - 5:26am

 Lazy8 wrote:
 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
When A meets B, when the scared and rootless start eroding that general consensus in an attempt to remedy their fears by destroying the very thing holding things together I get kind of angry. edit: and, yes, scared for our future.

I'm gonna repeat my question: What else you got? The fear that civilization is hanging by a thread, btw, is more than a little hyperbolic—but let's say your breathless take is accurate. Shouldn't that motivate you all the more? If it's important enough to make you wring your hands why isn't it important enough for you to try a more persuasive approach?
 
reaching out and talking it through... ad nauseam if need be.. as one does... so how's your day so far?
 
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 13, 2021 - 4:08am

 steeler wrote:
 sirdroseph wrote:

And this does not concern you?  Seems to me the virus itself and its journey is the more deciding factor and that will reveal itself much sooner.

It seems you are waiting to be proven right about your choice not to get vaccinated —  not to be proven wrong about that choice.  I am concerned about the virus. I am not concerned about the safety of the vaccine. While acknowledging that nothing is guaranteed or foolproof, I trust those epidemiologists and others in the field who have determined it to be sufficiently safe. I consider placing trust in these people and institutions to be logical.  I readily acknowledge that I have no basis or requisite background knowledge upon which to study the issue myself and reach my own conclusion. So, yes, it is a matter of trust in those experts, those institutions, and, writ large, science itself.
 
I am concerned about both, they are not mutually exclusive.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Aug 12, 2021 - 8:26pm

The government distrust chickens have come home to roost...

steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Aug 12, 2021 - 4:46pm

 black321 wrote:


sure, i think this a bit of a communication breakdown:
Dont want to speak for him, but... i didnt get the sense Sir was trying to push no vaxx...but rather highlight some of the potential l-t risks of a mrna vaccine.
Suggest you watch the Weinstein video from the covid thread for perspective.

Hmmm . . . I am thinking When The Levee Breaks:

Going down, going down now.
Going down. I'm going down now
Going down, going down
Going down, going down
Oh
Going down, going down now
Going down, going down now
Going down, going down now
Going down, going, dow- dow- dow- dow- down now
ooh, ooh

Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 12, 2021 - 2:47pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
When A meets B, when the scared and rootless start eroding that general consensus in an attempt to remedy their fears by destroying the very thing holding things together I get kind of angry.

edit: and, yes, scared for our future.

I'm gonna repeat my question: What else you got?

The fear that civilization is hanging by a thread, btw, is more than a little hyperbolic—but let's say your breathless take is accurate. Shouldn't that motivate you all the more? If it's important enough to make you wring your hands why isn't it important enough for you to try a more persuasive approach?
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 12, 2021 - 12:23pm

 steeler wrote:





The context: I had first asked SirD whether he could be persuaded to get vaccinated and, if so, what might persuade him. He responded by saying that he was choosing to stand by. I wondered how long he would wait to make a determination as it might be years before adverse side effects of the vaccine might surface. He responded by wondering why I was not concerned about that. As reflected in my response that you have bolded, SirD’s responses indicate to me that he has made up his mind and believes the passage of time will validate his choice. In sum, I do not think there is anything that would persuade him to get vaccinated, given his current circumstances and beliefs. So, I believe I have the answers to the questions I posed.

I also acknowledged that his circumstances were rather unique in terms of the degree of isolation he and his wife can and do exercise. He did say that he does make infrequent visits to grocery stores and other such stops. I guess I wonder why he seemingly is trying to convince others that eschewing vaccination is the better choice  when he has to know that the circumstances of the lives of the vast majority differ from his. As you say, above, most do not have that option, at least not to that degree. And, as noenz has said, the vast majority do not want to live that way.






sure, i think this a bit of a communication breakdown:
Dont want to speak for him, but... i didnt get the sense Sir was trying to push no vaxx...but rather highlight some of the potential l-t risks of a mrna vaccine.
Suggest you watch the Weinstein video from the covid thread for perspective.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Aug 12, 2021 - 12:02pm

 black321 wrote:

What's wrong with that, in Sird's case? He has the luxury of self isolating, without impacting his economic or personal life, or risking the health of others.
It seems the more prudent step, for him.
The rest of us have to, or want to be out in the world...so the more prudent thing is take the shot. 










The context: I had first asked SirD whether he could be persuaded to get vaccinated and, if so, what might persuade him. He responded by saying that he was choosing to stand by. I wondered how long he would wait to make a determination as it might be years before adverse side effects of the vaccine might surface. He responded by wondering why I was not concerned about that. As reflected in my response that you have bolded, SirD’s responses indicate to me that he has made up his mind and believes the passage of time will validate his choice. In sum, I do not think there is anything that would persuade him to get vaccinated, given his current circumstances and beliefs. So, I believe I have the answers to the questions I posed.

I also acknowledged that his circumstances were rather unique in terms of the degree of isolation he and his wife can and do exercise. He did say that he does make infrequent visits to grocery stores and other such stops. I guess I wonder why he seemingly is trying to convince others that eschewing vaccination is the better choice  when he has to know that the circumstances of the lives of the vast majority differ from his. As you say, above, most do not have that option, at least not to that degree. And, as noenz has said, the vast majority do not want to live that way.




NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 12, 2021 - 10:33am

 black321 wrote:

What's wrong with that, in Sird's case? He has the luxury of self isolating, without impacting his economic or personal life, or risking the health of others.
It seems the more prudent step, for him.
The rest of us have to, or want to be out in the world...so the more prudent thing is take the shot. 



nothing in my book. He has chosen isolation and is happy living by it. Fine by me.
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 12, 2021 - 10:23am

 black321 wrote:

What's wrong with that, in Sird's case? He has the luxury of self isolating, without impacting his economic or personal life, or risking the health of others.
It seems the more prudent step, for him.
The rest of us have to, or want to be out in the world...so the more prudent thing is take the shot. 



h3ll, i've been vaccinated twice, two different vaccines
AZ late last year in a random control trial, which didn't receive  emergency use authorization 
so my alternative was pfizer (jabbed early and late may))
of course i'm around a lot of people, old people
i say that as someone hatched in 60

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 12, 2021 - 10:12am

 steeler wrote:

It seems you are waiting to be proven right about your choice not to get vaccinated —  not to be proven wrong about that choice. 

I am concerned about the virus. I am not concerned about the safety of the vaccine. While acknowledging that nothing is guaranteed or foolproof, I trust those epidemiologists and others in the field who have determined it to be sufficiently safe. I consider placing trust in these people and institutions to be logical.  I readily acknowledge that I have no basis or requisite background knowledge upon which to study the issue myself and reach my own conclusion. So, yes, it is a matter of trust in those experts, those institutions, and, writ large, science itself.


What's wrong with that, in Sird's case? He has the luxury of self isolating, without impacting his economic or personal life, or risking the health of others.
It seems the more prudent step, for him.
The rest of us have to, or want to be out in the world...so the more prudent thing is take the shot. 

NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 12, 2021 - 7:06am

 steeler wrote:

It seems you are waiting to be proven right about your choice not to get vaccinated —  not to be proven wrong about that choice. 

I am concerned about the virus. I am not concerned about the safety of the vaccine. While acknowledging that nothing is guaranteed or foolproof, I trust those epidemiologists and others in the field who have determined it to be sufficiently safe. I consider placing trust in these people and institutions to be logical.  I readily acknowledge that I have no basis or requisite background knowledge upon which to study the issue myself and reach my own conclusion. So, yes, it is a matter of trust in those experts, those institutions, and, writ large, science itself.



That's the way I see it too. On an individual level, there are basically two choices: 
1. get vaccinated and avoid a real and imminent threat of severe illness (as well as help get the R number below 1 and stymie the spread) 
OR
2. not get vaccinated to avoid a potential but unlikely threat of something unforeseen in the distant future (when I could well be dead or demented anyway) which entails accepting the risk of getting severely ill in the near future from the very real pandemic surrounding us.

From a social perspective, there's basically no argument. Get vaccinated or isolate.



steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Aug 12, 2021 - 6:18am

 sirdroseph wrote:

And this does not concern you?  Seems to me the virus itself and its journey is the more deciding factor and that will reveal itself much sooner.

It seems you are waiting to be proven right about your choice not to get vaccinated —  not to be proven wrong about that choice. 

I am concerned about the virus. I am not concerned about the safety of the vaccine. While acknowledging that nothing is guaranteed or foolproof, I trust those epidemiologists and others in the field who have determined it to be sufficiently safe. I consider placing trust in these people and institutions to be logical.  I readily acknowledge that I have no basis or requisite background knowledge upon which to study the issue myself and reach my own conclusion. So, yes, it is a matter of trust in those experts, those institutions, and, writ large, science itself.

sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 12, 2021 - 6:10am

 rgio wrote:
 sirdroseph wrote:
In addition to that, both my wife and I rarely leave our property even before this all happened because this is our homesteading lifestyle and the outside world offers us very little that we desire so why go anywhere? Basically, we were already built for this and have not had to alter our lives at all sans wearing a mask when going on grocery store and feed supply runs of which only I do. My wife has been blessed to never have the need to leave the property and has no plans to do so. So there is no persuading me either way, I am on standby.

So then why do you continue to question everyone else, who don't have the luxury of hiding from the world and need to interact to survive?  Your "math" on risk and reward has almost no relevance in the normal lives of the vast majority of the world.  The virus has provided confirmation bias that your concerns about society "were right all along", and apparently loneliness gives you the time to share videos with the dozen people on these boards to reinforce your point of view.  I for one commend your choice to isolate, and thank you on behalf of those where you used to live. Having the luxury to "wait and see" doesn't apply to most, so are they better off risking their lives to the virus or taking what appears to be an incredibly safe, incredibly useful vaccine to protect themselves and the others they interact with? The title of the thread is meant as an indictment to institutions, but selfish misinformation is infinitely more dangerous than any institutional plan.
 
Loneliness?  Loneliness is a state of mind and may or may not have anything to do with the number of people you come in contact with.  Some of the most lonely people are constantly surrounded by others.  If I were lonely, I would take steps to alleviate this seeing how we have the power to create our own reality.{#Meditate}
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 74, 75, 76  Next