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miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 15, 2013 - 6:46pm

 sirdroseph wrote:


Did you even read the link? Must not have.  Please read the link and get back to me. It is from that crazy right wing Forbes magazine and has nothing to do with Sarah Palin, we are way past that dude.

The Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.


Here, let the friendly officer give you a nice tour of the vehicles:



 
obviously there are a few here and dhs funds have been given to applicants/towns to purchase stuff like this (see domestic militarization links in this story too)

a colossal waste of hundreds of millions of dollars for sure (like we need to strap our children with more debt to fund something like this)

and they're going to be used somewhere, so it becomes a matter of geography

if it's considered a bad thing here, would it not be bad elsewhere?

enabling and facilitating senseless war is bad anywhere

and we're forced to pay regardless of moral and ethical objections

either that or we're robbed and or locked in a cage

and when brave souls come forward with evidence of this evil, like bradley manning/wikileaks, we lock them in a cage

where's the outrage?

we should be ashamed

regards


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 15, 2013 - 5:49pm

 islander wrote:

Broken clock theory says they will eventually get a scary story right though. And the more they get wrong just increases the odds that the *Next* one will be the real deal.

Alt conspiracy theory:  The .gov is planting all these fake stories to make the conspiracy theorists look bad and desensitize the populace for their opportunity to go big. 

 
Let's bring a couple of facts we might be able to agree on into the discussion.

The .gov is cooking the books.  Standard accounting practices have gone out the window everywhere except for maybe the CBO, but they get ignored by everyone anyway so they no longer matter.  Reference measurements for standard stats like the CPI and unemployment have been changed in order to not reflect reality and are accepted by everyone.   Especially the media who just blindy reports them without question or concern which adds credibility and acceptance of these bogus numbers. 

Work rules are being changed to redefine a full time worker for the purpose of health care benefits.  Full time positions are being changed to part time positions in order accomodate these new rules.  Regardless of how we got here, it is generally accepted that there are 9 miliion total fewer jobs (slots) available since the crash in 2008.  In order to remain even with population growth, 250k jobs must be created every month.  That is not and has not happened for a long time and will not anytime soon.  More people will become part time employees requiring them to work two jobs instead of one and end up with no health care benefits because of permanent part time status.  Underemployment will rise sharply. 

End of facts.

Meanwhile, we are told inflation is only 2% and unemployment is falling.  Real inflation as measured back in the 80's is closer to 8% and the real unemployment rate as measured long ago is closer to 20%.  I can provide support for these numbers if you really need it.  The only reason the Dow is going up is because interest rates are zero and there is no other place to put money.  The fed is printing $85 Billion a month and buying toxic debt with it.  The FDIC has changed the rules on deposit insurance for a total insured amount of $250k regardless of how many accounts you have it stashed in.  So technically any amount an individual has in the bank over $250K is taking a chance that the rest of it will actually be there.  2% inflation ?  How much longer are people gonna believe that its raining when it is really something much less pleasant.

This big healthcare thing is being trotted out now after the election for all to see and marvel over and wonder at.  This is the thing that we have all been waiting for to save us and turn this country around and be worthy of all the sacrifice and suffering it took to accomplish it.  What is going to happen when the reality of it sinks in and everyone discovers just how had they were and how bogus it is ?  The 15 page application for Obamacare has just been unveiled.  And that is only the application.  What happens when those who get Medicaid because of the increased income allowances find out that they cannot hold many assets and get coverage ?  Own a home ?  Sorry no Medicaid for you, you own something of value.  Have to sell it.  What ?  Underwater, no buyers ?  Too bad, so sad.  Oh, I know, you can turn it over to the .gov.  We'll give you some credit for it.

So the Dow is going to 20,000 ?  Life is gonna be ducky, forever.  Or we get a correction, interest rates take off and we have a whole lot of upset people who are majorly disappointed with the reality of Obamacare.  I guess the smart money is on the former.  All the wimps are cashing out too soon I guess, if I am to believe everyone I hear saying I'm crazy. 
.
And I just decided that I am going to go and try and get certified to become A application filler outer helperer and get rich.  Just think of all those those in need who cannot read !  The public schools are turning them out in droves !


sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 15, 2013 - 9:00am

 islander wrote:

Broken clock theory says they will eventually get a scary story right though. And the more they get wrong just increases the odds that the *Next* one will be the real deal.

Alt conspiracy theory:  The .gov is planting all these fake stories to make the conspiracy theorists look bad and desensitize the populace for their opportunity to go big. 

 

{#Lol}{#Eek}
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 15, 2013 - 8:48am

 Lazy8 wrote:
sirdroseph wrote:
Believe it or not I actually find that comforting if the majority are indeed going to the Navy and don't misunderstand my concern, it is not the concern of a conspiracy. I look at it more as a barometer of things to come watching the actions of the government.  You know that those in power have more access to information, their behavior needs to be closely scrutinized as the canary in the coalmine. It is no coincidence that government, political leaders and military high end officers are the biggest clientele group of underground doomsday shelters, jes sayin.

Scrutinized, sure. Not lied about. Not panicked over.

Of course, you're not concerned about a conspiracy—you treated this bullshit urban legend as fact, reality to be dealt with. The government is preparing to put down massive civil unrest, here's the smoking gun...er, dripping water pistol. Whatever. On to the next.

When every single piece of evidence of impending doom turns out to be false do you ever think that maybe the conclusions you're drawing from that evidence might also be false? Or is the whole point to start with the conclusion and hack enough pieces off the truth to create the evidence?

 
Broken clock theory says they will eventually get a scary story right though. And the more they get wrong just increases the odds that the *Next* one will be the real deal.

Alt conspiracy theory:  The .gov is planting all these fake stories to make the conspiracy theorists look bad and desensitize the populace for their opportunity to go big. 
hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Mar 15, 2013 - 6:01am

 kurtster wrote:


That is my bottom line as well.  The words eminating as infered policy or denial mean nothing really.  It is the actions that have meaning and are what is really worthy of attention.

I find it odd that the .gov is buying billions of rounds of ammunition, seperately from what the military buys for its operations.  The civilian side of our .gov now has enough ammo that equals 10 rounds for every man, woman and child in this country and seeks to buy up even more.  How much is enough and enough for what ?  I saw a number that claimed our military only used about 70 or 80 million rounds annually.

Is there a benign reason for this ?  If there is, I would love to hear it.

 
How do you know this?
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 15, 2013 - 5:03am

 sirdroseph wrote:

Believe it or not I actually find that comforting if the majority are indeed going to the Navy and don't misunderstand my concern, it is not the concern of a conspiracy. I look at it more as a barometer of things to come watching the actions of the government.  You know that those in power have more access to information, their behavior needs to be closely scrutinized as the canary in the coalmine. It is no coincidence that government, political leaders and military high end officers are the biggest clientele group of underground doomsday shelters, jes sayin.

 

That is my bottom line as well.  The words eminating as infered policy or denial mean nothing really.  It is the actions that have meaning and are what is really worthy of attention.

I find it odd that the .gov is buying billions of rounds of ammunition, seperately from what the military buys for its operations.  The civilian side of our .gov now has enough ammo that equals 10 rounds for every man, woman and child in this country and seeks to buy up even more.  How much is enough and enough for what ?  I saw a number that claimed our military only used about 70 or 80 million rounds annually.

Is there a benign reason for this ?  If there is, I would love to hear it.
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 14, 2013 - 5:04pm

sirdroseph wrote:
Believe it or not I actually find that comforting if the majority are indeed going to the Navy and don't misunderstand my concern, it is not the concern of a conspiracy. I look at it more as a barometer of things to come watching the actions of the government.  You know that those in power have more access to information, their behavior needs to be closely scrutinized as the canary in the coalmine. It is no coincidence that government, political leaders and military high end officers are the biggest clientele group of underground doomsday shelters, jes sayin.

Scrutinized, sure. Not lied about. Not panicked over.

Of course, you're not concerned about a conspiracy—you treated this bullshit urban legend as fact, reality to be dealt with. The government is preparing to put down massive civil unrest, here's the smoking gun...er, dripping water pistol. Whatever. On to the next.

When every single piece of evidence of impending doom turns out to be false do you ever think that maybe the conclusions you're drawing from that evidence might also be false? Or is the whole point to start with the conclusion and hack enough pieces off the truth to create the evidence?
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 14, 2013 - 4:15pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
sirdroseph wrote:
Did you even read the link? Must not have.  Please read the link and get back to me. It is from that crazy right wing Forbes magazine and has nothing to do with Sarah Palin, we are way past that dude.

The Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.


Here, let the friendly officer give you a nice tour of the vehicles:


OFFS.

 
Believe it or not I actually find that comforting if the majority are indeed going to the Navy and don't misunderstand my concern, it is not the concern of a conspiracy. I look at it more as a barometer of things to come watching the actions of the government.  You know that those in power have more access to information, their behavior needs to be closely scrutinized as the canary in the coalmine. It is no coincidence that government, political leaders and military high end officers are the biggest clientele group of underground doomsday shelters, jes sayin.
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 14, 2013 - 3:58pm

 hippiechick wrote:
 islander wrote:

I'm just pointing out that there are far more options (most of them more likely) than a sinister conspiracy to seize control. The standard explanations of greed and incompetence fit pretty well here. 

I'm not all thrilled that we are militarizing our police. Just having a well armed SWAT team standing around seems to lead most police forces to go looking for a reason to use them. And although I have a healthy respect for people in law enforcement, I also know that there are a fair number of bully wanna be asshats in the ranks as well. So again: it's a bad idea, but not because the .gov is looking to take over when the zombies break free, it's because bubba doesn't need and can't be trusted with a tank.

The sequester?  That's only ~ 85 billion It's barely a weeks worth of spending.  If there wasn't money to be made with government contracts, the big companies wouldn't be seeking them. I bet there is plenty of margin left in the 3.75+ Trillion (Trillion with a freaking T) that they will still spend this year.

 

I would agree with you. There are, I believe, reasons to be concerned about a chance of riots or demonstrations in this country, as well as the chance that there will be some natural or manmade disaster that will require crowd control.

I noticed on the expressways in Chicago gates have been put up at entrances, so the roads can be closed down if necessary. 

We live in a dangerous world. SirD, maybe the gov is just preparing like you are.  

 
Actually I agree and that is exactly what I have been saying. We must be vigilant to keep up.
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 14, 2013 - 3:36pm

sirdroseph wrote:
Did you even read the link? Must not have.  Please read the link and get back to me. It is from that crazy right wing Forbes magazine and has nothing to do with Sarah Palin, we are way past that dude.

The Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.


Here, let the friendly officer give you a nice tour of the vehicles:


OFFS.
hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Mar 14, 2013 - 3:32pm

 islander wrote:

I'm just pointing out that there are far more options (most of them more likely) than a sinister conspiracy to seize control. The standard explanations of greed and incompetence fit pretty well here. 

I'm not all thrilled that we are militarizing our police. Just having a well armed SWAT team standing around seems to lead most police forces to go looking for a reason to use them. And although I have a healthy respect for people in law enforcement, I also know that there are a fair number of bully wanna be asshats in the ranks as well. So again: it's a bad idea, but not because the .gov is looking to take over when the zombies break free, it's because bubba doesn't need and can't be trusted with a tank.

The sequester?  That's only ~ 85 billion It's barely a weeks worth of spending.  If there wasn't money to be made with government contracts, the big companies wouldn't be seeking them. I bet there is plenty of margin left in the 3.75+ Trillion (Trillion with a freaking T) that they will still spend this year.

 

I would agree with you. There are, I believe, reasons to be concerned about a chance of riots or demonstrations in this country, as well as the chance that there will be some natural or manmade disaster that will require crowd control.

I noticed on the expressways in Chicago gates have been put up at entrances, so the roads can be closed down if necessary. 

We live in a dangerous world. SirD, maybe the gov is just preparing like you are.  
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 14, 2013 - 3:12pm

 sirdroseph wrote:

Yea, I gotta agree with you there, especially the last sentence.{#Yes}

 
We're all on the road to hell and will get there soon enough, no need to rush.
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 14, 2013 - 3:10pm

 islander wrote:

I'm just pointing out that there are far more options (most of them more likely) than a sinister conspiracy to seize control. The standard explanations of greed and incompetence fit pretty well here. 

I'm not all thrilled that we are militarizing our police. Just having a well armed SWAT team standing around seems to lead most police forces to go looking for a reason to use them. And although I have a healthy respect for people in law enforcement, I also know that there are a fair number of bully wanna be asshats in the ranks as well. So again: it's a bad idea, but not because the .gov is looking to take over when the zombies break free, it's because bubba doesn't need and can't be trusted with a tank.

The sequester?  That's only ~ 85 billion It's barely a weeks worth of spending.  If there wasn't money to be made with government contracts, the big companies wouldn't be seeking them. I bet there is plenty of margin left in the 3.75+ Trillion (Trillion with a freaking T) that they will still spend this year.

 
Yea, I gotta agree with you there, especially the last sentence.{#Yes}
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 14, 2013 - 3:06pm

 sirdroseph wrote:

Ok firstly, how about neither? I go with choice C. those in charge know something we don't and are gearing up to control the citizens in the case of social collapse, has nothing to do with Democrats or Republicans at all.   You guys seem to not be able to see anything out of the Democrat, Republican, liberal, conservative prism the powers that be have trained us all to think in all of these years that you automatically think that I am trying to discredit Democrats or Obama.  I don't even think that way, Obama does not even really exist in my eyes as anything but a cardboard cutout representative of the military industrial complex and the corporate elite ruling class.

Secondly, there is money available? White House tells us that the sequester is shutting everything down, all the money is dried up and the economy is going to collapse (maybe they actually believe that and are preparing?).   So even if you believe all of the reasons that the government is giving for building a domestic war machine, first with the sequester, how did they get the funds and secondly, they obviously did get the funds how do you feel about them spending so much money on ammo and military vehicles whilst cutting Medicare, Medicaid and other social programs?

 
I'm just pointing out that there are far more options (most of them more likely) than a sinister conspiracy to seize control. The standard explanations of greed and incompetence fit pretty well here. 

I'm not all thrilled that we are militarizing our police. Just having a well armed SWAT team standing around seems to lead most police forces to go looking for a reason to use them. And although I have a healthy respect for people in law enforcement, I also know that there are a fair number of bully wanna be asshats in the ranks as well. So again: it's a bad idea, but not because the .gov is looking to take over when the zombies break free, it's because bubba doesn't need and can't be trusted with a tank.

The sequester?  That's only ~ 85 billion It's barely a weeks worth of spending.  If there wasn't money to be made with government contracts, the big companies wouldn't be seeking them. I bet there is plenty of margin left in the 3.75+ Trillion (Trillion with a freaking T) that they will still spend this year.
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 14, 2013 - 2:45pm

 islander wrote:

So here are two scenarios, tell me which one you think is more plausible:

a. Military guy with connections in DHS knows there is money available. He gets a hold of surplus military vehicles and reworks them to fit the spec for DHS. ...Profit!

b. Government (led mostly by Democrats) decides to militarize to hold control (despite convincing margins of victory in recent elections and disarray in the opposing party). They devise a crafty plan to utilize military vehicles to bolster their forces. They then put a commercial for said vehicles on the internet to keep it a secret. 

I know, I'm naive, can't connect the dots, am insulated in my ivory tower, cheese eating surrender monkey, can't grow a real beard... 

 
Ok firstly, how about neither? I go with choice C. those in charge know something we don't and are gearing up to control the citizens in the case of social collapse, has nothing to do with Democrats or Republicans at all.   You guys seem to not be able to see anything out of the Democrat, Republican, liberal, conservative prism the powers that be have trained us all to think in all of these years that you automatically think that I am trying to discredit Democrats or Obama.  I don't even think that way, Obama does not even really exist in my eyes as anything but a cardboard cutout representative of the military industrial complex and the corporate elite ruling class.

Secondly, there is money available? White House tells us that the sequester is shutting everything down, all the money is dried up and the economy is going to collapse (maybe they actually believe that and are preparing?).   So even if you believe all of the reasons that the government is giving for building a domestic war machine, first with the sequester, how did they get the funds and secondly, they obviously did get the funds how do you feel about them spending so much money on ammo and military vehicles whilst cutting Medicare, Medicaid and other social programs?


islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 14, 2013 - 2:23pm

 sirdroseph wrote:


Here, let the friendly officer give you a nice tour of the vehicles:

 
So here are two scenarios, tell me which one you think is more plausible:

a. Military guy with connections in DHS knows there is money available. He gets a hold of surplus military vehicles and reworks them to fit the spec for DHS. ...Profit!

b. Government (led mostly by Democrats) decides to militarize to hold control (despite convincing margins of victory in recent elections and disarray in the opposing party). They devise a crafty plan to utilize military vehicles to bolster their forces. They then put a commercial for said vehicles on the internet to keep it a secret. 

I know, I'm naive, can't connect the dots, am insulated in my ivory tower, cheese eating surrender monkey, can't grow a real beard... 
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 14, 2013 - 11:56am

 aflanigan wrote:


Dude, if your idea of "independent" political thinking is regurgitating right wing conspiracy theories, you should at least pick ones that aren't instantly recognizable as recycled old BS via Sarah Palin and Alex Jones.



Sarah Palin's New Conspiracy Theory was Debunked Before She Even Wrote About It

 

Did you even read the link? Must not have.  Please read the link and get back to me. It is from that crazy right wing Forbes magazine and has nothing to do with Sarah Palin, we are way past that dude.

The Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.


Here, let the friendly officer give you a nice tour of the vehicles:




aflanigan

aflanigan Avatar

Location: At Sea
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 14, 2013 - 11:51am

 sirdroseph wrote:


Yea I saw this one too, the DHS scarfing up ammo and buying urban assault vehicles all over the country looks like it has finally been accepted by mainstream media as beyond reasonable explanation fodder now as well.  I just think that everyone already knows all this and those that care do and those that don't, don't. Vatta u gonna do? 

 

Dude, if your idea of "independent" political thinking is regurgitating right wing conspiracy theories, you should at least pick ones that aren't instantly recognizable as recycled old BS via Sarah Palin and Alex Jones.



Sarah Palin's New Conspiracy Theory was Debunked Before She Even Wrote About It
hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Mar 14, 2013 - 6:53am

 Red_Dragon wrote:

Perhaps the 300 million learned their lesson when Bush went to war anyway - they don't matter, so why bother.

 
I have been to the White House, and I can tell you, there are lots of people protesting there all the time, for lots of different reasons.
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Mar 14, 2013 - 6:50am

 sirdroseph wrote:


Partly apathy, partly political partisianship and the rest is standard human nature sprinkled with some jingoism that "well at least only the towel heads are getting it and our boys are safe."{#Rolleyes}


 
Perhaps the 300 million learned their lesson when Bush went to war anyway - they don't matter, so why bother.


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