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oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 9, 2016 - 9:29pm

 Isabeau wrote:

oh. okay. {#Biggrin} 

 
War in any context makes fools of most of us. The rest it kills...


Isabeau

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Location: sou' tex
Gender: Female


Posted: Jan 9, 2016 - 9:25pm

 oldviolin wrote:

You're directing your righteous indignation at the wrong person. I find no need for equivocation regarding the madness of fools.

 
oh. okay. {#Biggrin} 
oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 9, 2016 - 9:22pm

 Isabeau wrote:

Then let's have some lovely shots of innocent civilian Mothers and children blown to bits by OUR bombs in Middle East Wars.
Sound muted, with Wagner playing as the blood spatters.

Why the horror of a Process ending but not equally of a Live Result? A Process that often ends similarly around the time when many miscarriages happen. Most women do not have terminations after 8-10 weeks. I once met a woman with 3 children, one with Spinal Bifida, sobbing, because the spermicide/condom didn't work and she found herself pregnant. She felt she had to terminate this pregnancy.... simply for her and her husband to afford to take care of the family they have.

Whose quality of life is being threatened, changed, or in any way affected what an American woman does with her personal and family issues?
Is Liberty Only about Federal Lands, Guns, Ignoring EPA rules and Religious Expression? 
What business of yours interfering with a Woman's own personal decision, between her, her family, her doctor and her relationship with  God.

For a country that worships is War, Guns and Capital Punishment, it has NO CREDIBILITY weighing on the 'Value' of Life.
The Nazarene clearly stated his rejection of violence in Any form. Too many conveniently play Spiritual Hopscotch between the Testaments when it suits their arguments.
 

It is merely SELECTIVE MORALITY. 

and WE still pay for it
 
You're directing your righteous indignation at the wrong person. I find no need for equivocation regarding the madness of fools.
Isabeau

Isabeau Avatar

Location: sou' tex
Gender: Female


Posted: Jan 9, 2016 - 9:12pm

 islander wrote:

I've been going through some old pictures. I have one that has me as an infant on the kitchen floor while my mom has her back turned and is doing something at the stove (I doubt it was cooking, that just wasn't her style).  I affectionately call 'benign neglect'. I think it worked out okay.

 
You Survived!! {#Roflol}
Isabeau

Isabeau Avatar

Location: sou' tex
Gender: Female


Posted: Jan 9, 2016 - 9:02pm

 oldviolin wrote:
Anyone with any doubts about what abortion is should google it and turn your image filter off.

 
Then let's have some lovely shots of innocent civilian Mothers and children blown to bits by OUR bombs in Middle East Wars.
Sound muted, with Wagner playing as the blood spatters.

Why the horror of a Process ending but not equally of a Live Result? A Process that often ends similarly around the time when many miscarriages happen. Most women do not have terminations after 8-10 weeks. I once met a woman with 3 children, one with Spinal Bifida, sobbing, because the spermicide/condom didn't work and she found herself pregnant. She felt she had to terminate this pregnancy.... simply for her and her husband to afford to take care of the family they have.

Whose quality of life is being threatened, changed, or in any way affected what an American woman does with her personal and family issues?
Is Liberty Only about Federal Lands, Guns, Ignoring EPA rules and Religious Expression? 
What business is it of yours interfering with a Woman's own personal decision, between her, her family, her doctor and her relationship with  her God?

For a country that worships is War, Guns and Capital Punishment, it has NO CREDIBILITY weighing on the 'Value' of Life.
The Nazarene clearly stated his rejection of violence in Any form. Yet too many conveniently play Spiritual Hopscotch between teaching and testaments when it suits their arguments.
 

It's merely SELECTIVE MORALITY. 

and WE still pay for it


meower

meower Avatar

Location: i believe, i believe, it's silly, but I believe
Gender: Female


Posted: Jan 8, 2016 - 4:49am

 islander wrote:

I've been going through some old pictures. I have one that has me as an infant on the kitchen floor while my mom has her back turned and is doing something at the stove (I doubt it was cooking, that just wasn't her style).  I affectionately call 'benign neglect'. I think it worked out okay.

 
I remember a picture of my brother at my mom's feet on the floor of the front seat of my parents 195something Buik
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 7, 2016 - 1:21pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

I think that's ...good enough. :slapsknee:
 
Some of those, I would want to strive for 100%, some would say spanking is required...

Being present most of the time is good, All of the time, is that helicopter parenting? 

 
I've been going through some old pictures. I have one that has me as an infant on the kitchen floor while my mom has her back turned and is doing something at the stove (I doubt it was cooking, that just wasn't her style).  I affectionately call 'benign neglect'. I think it worked out okay.
meower

meower Avatar

Location: i believe, i believe, it's silly, but I believe
Gender: Female


Posted: Jan 7, 2016 - 9:40am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

I think that's ...good enough. :slapsknee:
 
Some of those, I would want to strive for 100%, some would say spanking is required...

Being present most of the time is good, All of the time, is that helicopter parenting? 

 
right. every parent likely accidently says something "shameful" or doesn't control themselves once in a while and hits......

I think all of the time is helicopter parenting. Much  of knowing how to entertain one's self is learned as a kid......

I also want to say that parenting is hard (I think ) so want to give people space to sometimes get lost in a freecell game on their phone or or or


ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 7, 2016 - 9:35am

 meower wrote:

Agreed. Likely a large part of the reason that I didn't become a parent.

In the Biz, we talk about "good enough parenting" which honestly MOST parents are able to provide, I think.

a good enough parent is there most of the time that their child (in a developmentally appropriate manner) needs them, and puts their child first much of the time. A good enough parent does not use shame to manage their child's behavior 99% of the time. A good enough parent doesn't use their physical ways to manage their child's behavior 99% of the time. A good enough parent is present with their child MOST of the time. A good enough parent talks to their child about family/school/community values and works to get their child to abide by these values much of the time.

I think.

 (obviously I'm not a parent, so please chime in moms'ndads)

 
I think that's ...good enough. :slapsknee:
 
Some of those, I would want to strive for 100%, some would say spanking is required...

Being present most of the time is good, All of the time, is that helicopter parenting? 
meower

meower Avatar

Location: i believe, i believe, it's silly, but I believe
Gender: Female


Posted: Jan 7, 2016 - 9:10am

 miamizsun wrote:

a few random thoughts...

i'm exposed through my job and my other half (a pre-k, k and first grade teacher) to the inner city school system

it's pretty brutal

i do support a woman's right to choose

and i'm not a big fan of abortion, however i think using birth control to prevent both (unwanted children and pregnancy) would be much wiser

a question that should be posed to parents: what am i responsible for?

having/raising children is a huge responsibility

what would be the goal/incentive of having a child?

people thinking about having children should understand what is involved and what conditions need to be in place for a child to flourish

i think if we look at the successful cases we'll see some clues

has anyone looked the data or provided that data to your agency?

just curious

peace

 
Agreed. Likely a large part of the reason that I didn't become a parent.

In the Biz, we talk about "good enough parenting" which honestly MOST parents are able to provide, I think.

a good enough parent is there most of the time that their child (in a developmentally appropriate manner) needs them, and puts their child first much of the time. A good enough parent does not use shame to manage their child's behavior 99% of the time. A good enough parent doesn't use their physical ways to manage their child's behavior 99% of the time. A good enough parent is present with their child MOST of the time. A good enough parent talks to their child about family/school/community values and works to get their child to abide by these values much of the time.

I think.

 (obviously I'm not a parent, so please chime in moms'ndads)




sirdroseph

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Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 6, 2016 - 7:24am



Cologne New Year gang assaults: Victim, 18, says up to 30 men groped and robbed her and her 11 friends


floydoftherocks

floydoftherocks Avatar

Location: Frisco


Posted: Jan 5, 2016 - 8:55pm

 marko86 wrote:

One of many reasons I a have an extreme dislike to Republicans, because they are, by all accounts, fundamentally against birth control. They have been pretty much all opposed to health coverage for birth control. Plan B availability (which prevents coverage, and most importantly Planned Parenthood, which primarily provide health services to women and especially birth control to poor women. Isn't it way cheaper to provide birth control then pay for children on welfare? 

 
I think that is not entirely true. Go to YouTube and you will find a video of Sean Hannity, of all people, being pretty nasty to a Catholic priest on the show for being against birth control. 

Did you ever think you and Hannity would agree about birth control? {#Stupid} 
marko86

marko86 Avatar

Location: North TX
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 5, 2016 - 11:43am

 miamizsun wrote:


and i'm not a big fan of abortion, however i think using birth control to prevent both (unwanted children and pregnancy) would be much wiser
 
One of many reasons I a have an extreme dislike to Republicans, because they are, by all accounts, fundamentally against birth control. They have been pretty much all opposed to health coverage for birth control. Plan B availability (which prevents coverage, and most importantly Planned Parenthood, which primarily provide health services to women and especially birth control to poor women. Isn't it way cheaper to provide birth control then pay for children on welfare? 
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jan 5, 2016 - 8:33am

 oldviolin wrote:
(...) One of us is twisting what the other is saying into the usual regression. (...)

But of course. {#Doh}
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 5, 2016 - 8:21am

 meower wrote:
Anyone who has any doubts about what it is to grow up as an unwanted/poor child should work in my job for one day, and see whether you support a woman's right to choose.

 
a few random thoughts...

i'm exposed through my job and my other half (a pre-k, k and first grade teacher) to the inner city school system

it's pretty brutal

i do support a woman's right to choose

and i'm not a big fan of abortion, however i think using birth control to prevent both (unwanted children and pregnancy) would be much wiser

a question that should be posed to parents: what am i responsible for?

having/raising children is a huge responsibility

what would be the goal/incentive of having a child?

people thinking about having children should understand what is involved and what conditions need to be in place for a child to flourish

i think if we look at the successful cases we'll see some clues

has anyone looked the data or provided that data to your agency?

just curious

peace
oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 5, 2016 - 8:05am

 RichardPrins wrote:

Repeated talk of judgement and "reaping what you sow" suggests the opposite. Assured knowledge and a lack of doubt doesn't strike me as particularly humble either, but that's how it's usually presented.

The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell.

Since we've apparently come to the tit for tat portion of our exchange I'll just leave it there. One of us is twisting what the other is saying into the usual regression. I'll only say that one need only look at the state of the world today to make their own judgements as to knowledge juxtaposed with doubt. Thanks for the clarification.
 


R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jan 5, 2016 - 7:53am

 oldviolin wrote:
Au contraire, Richard. I appeal not to fear, but to reason. I know beyond the shadow of my own doubts that virtue is in fact spiritually evolved, and that humanistic and prideful man left to his own devices stands no chance without humility and the universality of LOVE. 

Repeated talk of judgement and "reaping what you sow" suggests the opposite. Assured knowledge and a lack of doubt doesn't strike me as particularly humble either, but that's how it's usually presented.

The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell.
oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 4, 2016 - 11:47pm

 RichardPrins wrote:

No small or easy thing at all. It takes a lot of work to question the received wisdom, but that quest in itself will reveal and beat the repeated appeals to fear.

From pop culture: There's nothing to fear, but fear itself. Don't fear the reaper.

 
Au contraire, Richard. I appeal not to fear, but to reason. I know beyond the shadow of my own doubts that virtue is in fact spiritually evolved, and that humanistic and prideful man left to his own devices stands no chance without humility and the universality of LOVE.


R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jan 4, 2016 - 8:28pm

 oldviolin wrote:
No small thing, then? The proverbial proof of the pudding is in the eating? You can easily and cleverly attempt belittle a worldview quite in contrast with your own. I take no umbrage beyond a virtual wince for the attempt at bruising the pretension of my delicate but assured self knowledge. And as to the rest? Well, let us thank the convolution of statistics for the exquisite wisdom they enlighten us with.
 
No small or easy thing at all. It takes a lot of work to question the received wisdom, but that quest in itself will reveal and beat the repeated appeals to fear.

From pop culture: There's nothing to fear, but fear itself. Don't fear the reaper.
oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 4, 2016 - 8:05pm

 RichardPrins wrote:

The responsibility to choose wisely and rationally includes seeing through the illusions that so many hold on to as a (subjective) truth. Only then is it a personal choice. Others will happily, and with pride, wear their ancient chains.

Evolution marches on in any case, providing some (i.e. in the US) with as many miscarriages as there are abortions. However, added together they're still a much smaller minority than those that get to procreate successfully...

 
No small thing, then? The proverbial proof of the pudding is in the eating? You can easily and cleverly attempt to belittle a worldview quite in contrast with your own. I take no umbrage beyond a virtual wince for the attempt at bruising the pretension of my delicate but assured self knowledge. And as to the rest? Well, let us thank the convolution of statistics for the exquisite wisdom they enlighten us with.


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