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Index » Regional/Local » Africa/Middle East » Israel Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 194, 195, 196  Next
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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 1:48pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
would be kind of cool, wouldn't it? Take out the Russian air superiority. Or do you seriously want Russian control to be reinstated over East Germany, oh come on, let's be generous, all of Europe!

who cares what i said 5 minutes ago - i dont (NoEnzo)

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 1:47pm

But back to Marx. ..   any ideas?
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 1:46pm

 thisbody wrote:

would be kind of cool, wouldn't it? Take out the Russian air superiority. Or do you seriously want Russian control to be reinstated over East Germany, oh come on, let's be generous, all of Europe!
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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 1:43pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
 wtf?  1) I have never said anything about F-16s IIRC, and bullying? srsly?  You obviously went to a different type of school than I did

Seems yer getting older as well.

So don't let me dig back any deeper, please. (I'm only 63 yrs young.)

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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 1:22pm

 thisbody wrote:

Exactly. So do his forecasts for Ukraine with the "total F-16" impact, etc. etc. etc.
So much for...

"Let's just say... this and that" ...honest? Or rather dishonest? A pity when he could indeed be learning to empathize and begin to discuss, instead of bullying.

   wtf?  1) I have never said anything about F-16s IIRC, and bullying? srsly?  You obviously went to a different type of school than I did.

C'mon guys, step up to the challenge. Explain to me how Russia and Hamas fit into a Marxist scenario of historical evolution. Maybe we all learn something from the discussion.




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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 1:19pm

 R_P wrote:
Your support for the US/Israel/NATO and every form of escalation (see Macron) suggests otherwise.

Exactly. So do his forecasts for Ukraine with the "total F-16" impact, etc. etc. etc.
So much for...

"Let's just say... this and that" ...honest? Or rather dishonest? A pity when he could indeed be learning to empathize and begin to discuss, instead of bullying.
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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 1:16pm

 R_P wrote:

Your support for the US/Israel/NATO and every form of escalation (see Macron) suggests otherwise.


Täter/Opferumkehr

You are the biggest fan here of Russia's invasion.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 1:15pm

 R_P wrote:

Pretty amazing that a limited "Rules Based Order" would support such a far-right ultra-nationalist government to the hilt. Oh wait, it's not surprising at all. Ultranationalism, despotism or far-right shenanigans are to be excused as long as "we" can agree on the bigger picture.
Even if the protests intensify soon—another outcome of IDI’s poll—and the country heads for elections sometime during 2024, there is a huge question mark in regard to the structural changes in Israeli political thinking and public support for unpopular moves. That includes support for the two-state solution—a consensus shared around the world, but a big no-no for almost all Israeli politicians from the extreme right to the center. To ignite a process that will allow for a realistic discussion about “the day after” in Gaza and the need to implement the two states solution, Israeli society first needs to acknowledge that the policies that Netanyahu has advanced since 2009 have failed, and to start searching for alternatives. October 7, 2023 might be the beginning of the end of Netanyahu’s era, but it will be truly finished only when his political legacy of maintaining the status quo is gone.
Centrists, in particular, love the status quo.



C'mon Richard. You are being disingenuous, Hamas themselves are not in favour of a two-state solution.  
Me? I'm in favour of it. But I kind of suspect my voice doesn't count for much.
On that note, what's your standpoint? Eradication of the state of Israel à la Hamas or a two-state solution?


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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 1:13pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
I think we are all completely disgusted by the misery of war. Let's just say we share that in common.

Your support for the US/Israel/NATO and every form of escalation (see Macron) suggests otherwise.
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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 1:08pm

 thisbody wrote:

Feudal Russia and Hamas, ahumm... I see where your intellectual horizon is taking you (admit it - you gained that view from warhawk training, US, Nato, or EU based) without any impartial context at all, and the higher your "social organization" will be taking the world, the more people will die from hunger, I'm sure, as Marx wasn't calculating with global capitalism in mind. Instead you masquerade as intellectually open but your heart remains closed and dark.



I think we are all completely disgusted by the misery of war. Let's just say we share that in common.  

Let's get back to Marx. Marx was most definitely thinking of global capitalism. In fact that was his whole point (and his weakness - like most 19C thinkers he thought he had discovered a natural law, like  the theory of evolution).

Full disclosure: I am not a Marxist but as a student I identified myself as a Marxist and was (temporarily) a member of a Trotskyist progressive movement. I studied political science and have read a fair bit of Marxist writing.  I may not be the most knowledgeable here at RP on the subject but am very willing to discuss it with you, if you are up for an honest discussion on the subject.
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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 1:01pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
well, yes, of course they would . They felt their very existence was under threat. The very same right-wing law-and-order / external threat bullshit that works so well at the ballot box. By posting this, you are buying into it. That won't solve anything.

Pretty amazing that a limited "Rules Based Order" would support such a far-right ultra-nationalist government to the hilt. Oh wait, it's not surprising at all. Ultranationalism, despotism or far-right shenanigans are to be excused as long as "we" can agree on the bigger picture.
Even if the protests intensify soon—another outcome of IDI’s poll—and the country heads for elections sometime during 2024, there is a huge question mark in regard to the structural changes in Israeli political thinking and public support for unpopular moves. That includes support for the two-state solution—a consensus shared around the world, but a big no-no for almost all Israeli politicians from the extreme right to the center. To ignite a process that will allow for a realistic discussion about “the day after” in Gaza and the need to implement the two states solution, Israeli society first needs to acknowledge that the policies that Netanyahu has advanced since 2009 have failed, and to start searching for alternatives. October 7, 2023 might be the beginning of the end of Netanyahu’s era, but it will be truly finished only when his political legacy of maintaining the status quo is gone.
Centrists, in particular, love the status quo.

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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 12:59pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
That last bit is just plain wrong. 
And yes, I'd be very happy to talk about Marx.  At least he understood that capitalism was a necessary precursor to higher levels of social organisation which seems to be something the entire armada of "Marxists" following him seem to have misunderstood. Instead of that, you seem to want to return us all to feudalism, a form of government that pretty accurately describes the religious orthodoxy of Russia and Hamas. My bet is that you don't understand much at all about Marx.

Feudal Russia and Hamas, ahumm... I see where your intellectual horizon is taking you (admit it - you gained that view from warhawk training, US, Nato, or EU based) without any impartial context at all, and the higher your "social organization" will be taking the world, the more people will die from hunger, I'm sure, as Marx wasn't calculating with global capitalism in mind. Instead you masquerade as intellectually open but your heart remains closed and dark.

Stop now - not meaning to accuse you of anything - you're not speaking of any way out of the current misery which is war. ... I'd like to emphasize the potential for peace. Peace and always peace. Negotiations...

Instead we're always reading about weapons needed and such on either front. - Sorry, I'm completely sick of this.
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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 12:49pm

 R_P wrote:

Netanyahu might be losing ground, but his politics still resonate with most Israelis
By denying any direct responsibility for the security breach on October 7, 2023—the worst in Israel’s history—Netanyahu is basically telling Israelis that his theory, which maintains the status quo and the impermissibility of the Palestinian state no matter what it takes, was correct and that the danger to the state of Israel would be even greater otherwise. If the prime minister believes that he did nothing wrong, and that the full weight of the blame lies on the shoulders of the security services (as Netanyahu and his supporters argued soon after the fateful events of October 7, 2023), then there is no need to change a thing—neither the coalition that includes extreme-right elements, nor the ideology that rejects a Palestinian state. In other words, no grand deal.

But what does Israeli society think today about Netanyahu, his responsibility for October 7, 2023, and his ideology of accommodating Hamas while denying the Palestinians statehood? Polls show that the Israeli public is torn on many issues, but trust in Netanyahu’s government is not one of them. Israelis repeatedly show a historically low level of confidence in the prime minister, while support for his Likud party keeps dwindling.

At the same time, it’s also clear that the general public in Israel supports Netanyahu’s policies. According to a poll conducted by the daily newspaper Israel Hayom, the public is almost equally divided about “which of the two goals of the war is more important”: 46.6 percent prioritized securing the release of hostages, while 44.8 percent said “victory in the war against Hamas” is more important. However, the respondents’ answers also show that a vast majority of the public is not ready to accept the Hamas terms for the release of the abductees.

In the same poll, respondents were asked, “What is the best way to obtain the release of the hostages?” and 81.5 percent answered that “military pressure should be applied to Hamas so that it agrees to acceptable conditions for the release of the abductees.” This is something that Netanyahu and his military chiefs repeat every day.
Bomb until obedient or the end of resistance against occupation.



well, yes, of course they would . They felt their very existence was under threat. The very same right-wing law-and-order / external threat bullshit that works so well at the ballot box. By posting this, you are buying into it. That won't solve anything.
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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 12:46pm

 thisbody wrote:

Arghh.. read Marx, damn it. Although his visions for the future weren't met, money still is making the world go round, whereas the have-nots try to survive. Israel is financially (and politically) heavily invested in the US and partaking or even founding in their establishment. No? How-else is it possible that TikTok is all of a sudden being "banned" by congress? One could read the reason being too much posts in favor of Palestinians were the real reason (not purported by the corporate media of course)... hey, Bruce... let us not wind up the whole of public knowledge here, although - agreed - US citizens, and especially RP forum posters - usually know shit to zero about what's going on in the world, outside of America.


That last bit is just plain wrong. 
And yes, I'd be very happy to talk about Marx.  At least he understood that capitalism was a necessary precursor to higher levels of social organisation which seems to be something the entire armada of "Marxists" following him seem to have misunderstood. Instead of that, you seem to want to return us all to feudalism, a form of government that pretty accurately describes the religious orthodoxy of Russia and Hamas. My bet is that you don't understand much at all about Marx.
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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 12:44pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

of course, not, there's a whole armada of people supporting him. 

But there's also an armada of people IN ISRAEL opposing him. 

By painting them all with the one brush, you are only prolonging the agony.


Netanyahu might be losing ground, but his politics still resonate with most Israelis
By denying any direct responsibility for the security breach on October 7, 2023—the worst in Israel’s history—Netanyahu is basically telling Israelis that his theory, which maintains the status quo and the impermissibility of the Palestinian state no matter what it takes, was correct and that the danger to the state of Israel would be even greater otherwise. If the prime minister believes that he did nothing wrong, and that the full weight of the blame lies on the shoulders of the security services (as Netanyahu and his supporters argued soon after the fateful events of October 7, 2023), then there is no need to change a thing—neither the coalition that includes extreme-right elements, nor the ideology that rejects a Palestinian state. In other words, no grand deal.

But what does Israeli society think today about Netanyahu, his responsibility for October 7, 2023, and his ideology of accommodating Hamas while denying the Palestinians statehood? Polls show that the Israeli public is torn on many issues, but trust in Netanyahu’s government is not one of them. Israelis repeatedly show a historically low level of confidence in the prime minister, while support for his Likud party keeps dwindling.

At the same time, it’s also clear that the general public in Israel supports Netanyahu’s policies. According to a poll conducted by the daily newspaper Israel Hayom, the public is almost equally divided about “which of the two goals of the war is more important”: 46.6 percent prioritized securing the release of hostages, while 44.8 percent said “victory in the war against Hamas” is more important. However, the respondents’ answers also show that a vast majority of the public is not ready to accept the Hamas terms for the release of the abductees.

In the same poll, respondents were asked, “What is the best way to obtain the release of the hostages?” and 81.5 percent answered that “military pressure should be applied to Hamas so that it agrees to acceptable conditions for the release of the abductees.” This is something that Netanyahu and his military chiefs repeat every day.
Bomb until obedient or the end of resistance against occupation.

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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 12:38pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
that's confusing. what do you mean "the capital"?

Arghh.. read Marx, damn it. Although his visions for the future weren't met, money still is making the world go round, whereas the have-nots try to survive. Israel is financially (and politically) heavily invested in the US and partaking or even founding in their establishment. No? How-else is it possible that TikTok is all of a sudden being "banned" by congress? One could read the reason being too much posts in favor of Palestinians were the real reason (not purported by the corporate media of course)... hey, Bruce... let us not wind up the whole of public knowledge here, although - agreed - US citizens, and especially RP forum posters - usually know shit to zero about what's going on in the world, outside of America.

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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 12:27pm

 thisbody wrote:

Agreed, that's what it seems like. The "capital" will stay alive, no matter what...


that's confusing. what do you mean "the capital"?
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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 12:25pm

 R_P wrote:

It won't stop if Netanyahu is replaced. He's a useful scapegoat now. A bad apple to save face for historical Western complicity.


Agreed, that's what it seems like. The "capital" will stay alive, no matter what...
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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 12:24pm

of course, not, there's a whole armada of people supporting him. 

But there's also an armada of people IN ISRAEL opposing him. 

By painting them all with the one brush, you are only prolonging the agony.
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Posted: Apr 8, 2024 - 12:22pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
R. it is obvious that Netanyahu is exploiting this conflict to stay in power. It is also obvious that the orthodox hard right in Israel have committed crimes by pushing for settlement of the West Bank / annexation of Jerusalem and been as obnoxious as hard right parties are practically everywhere.

It won't stop if Netanyahu is replaced. He's a useful scapegoat now. A bad apple to save face for historical Western complicity.

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