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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Immigration Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 26, 27, 28 ... 38, 39, 40  Next
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aflanigan

aflanigan Avatar

Location: At Sea
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 25, 2017 - 8:13am

 Lazy8 wrote:
 Nowadays people exchange insults on Twitter.

 
Somehow I feel left out.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 24, 2017 - 4:35pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
 islander wrote:
I caught this over the weekend in pieces. I just went back to pick up the parts I had missed (especially the first segment). I think it sums up the looming problems in our country. It's us vs. them. I can understand the fear the anti- crowd feels, but I can't rationalize it. The people in Homer - WTF?  We are headed for a split in our nation at best, and a full on civil war at worst.  I've been against it for ever, but I'm resigned now.  I don't think there is common ground anymore. I hope I can get my alternative citizenship sorted out in time.

The country survived Nixon. It survived the impeachment of Bill Clinton. It will survive Trump.

Immigration isn't near as divisive as the Vietnam war, or segregation, or any number of culture-shredding issues we've faced. Keep it in perspective—things move faster now but not any farther. The hottest rhetoric is from keyboard warriors. They're all talk. When I was a kid we had actual terrorist movements blowing things up, hijacking airliners, kidnapping heiresses, setting fire to ROTC buildings. Hell, you throw a riot in Berkley these days and they trash a Starbucks and set a trash can on fire. I remember 1968 when the whole country seemed to be burning. Nowadays people exchange insults on Twitter.

 
True, but I don't think we've seen the worst of what lies ahead. My concern is that I listen to what people say and try to see it through their eyes, and while I can get there, I can't believe the rationalizations it takes. We are at a point where many people hate the other side so much, they will give up their ideals if the other side adopts them, while turning a blind eye to their own candidates blatant hypocrisy. When we reach the point of interstate trade breaking down, it will come to look like a just cause to go after those resources, and since we hate those people anyway...

I think a lot rides on how Congress reacts to Trump, and so far I'm hedging my bets offshore.
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 24, 2017 - 3:25pm

 islander wrote:
I caught this over the weekend in pieces. I just went back to pick up the parts I had missed (especially the first segment). I think it sums up the looming problems in our country. It's us vs. them. I can understand the fear the anti- crowd feels, but I can't rationalize it. The people in Homer - WTF?  We are headed for a split in our nation at best, and a full on civil war at worst.  I've been against it for ever, but I'm resigned now.  I don't think there is common ground anymore. I hope I can get my alternative citizenship sorted out in time.

The country survived Nixon. It survived the impeachment of Bill Clinton. It will survive Trump.

Immigration isn't near as divisive as the Vietnam war, or segregation, or any number of culture-shredding issues we've faced. Keep it in perspective—things move faster now but not any farther. The hottest rhetoric is from keyboard warriors. They're all talk. When I was a kid we had actual terrorist movements blowing things up, hijacking airliners, kidnapping heiresses, setting fire to ROTC buildings. Hell, you throw a riot in Berkley these days and they trash a Starbucks and set a trash can on fire. I remember 1968 when the whole country seemed to be burning. Nowadays people exchange insults on Twitter.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 24, 2017 - 3:06pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
This is a very illuminating look at the current immigration debate, at the hysteria surrounding it and the people exploiting it. It starts out with an immigration controversy in Homer, Alaska—a place without immigration problems and for the most part without immigrants, where nonetheless passions can be aroused and fear stoked and exploited. It also explores the Rockville, Maryland sexual assault case that got so much attention in the right wing media and subsequently here in this very thread.

If you're interested in the current immigration debate I urge you to give it a listen. If you stake out your position in that debate based on fear I beg you to listen to it.

621: Fear and Loathing in Homer and Rockville

Jul 21, 2017
This week we look at two different towns grappling with a question the country is trying to make sense of – who do we let in? One town has immigrants that became the focus of national news. The other, a small town in Alaska, hardly has any immigrants at all.


 
I caught this over the weekend in pieces. I just went back to pick up the parts I had missed (especially the first segment). I think it sums up the looming problems in our country. It's us vs. them. I can understand the fear the anti- crowd feels, but I can't rationalize it. The people in Homer - WTF?  We are headed for a split in our nation at best, and a full on civil war at worst.  I've been against it for ever, but I'm resigned now.  I don't think there is common ground anymore. I hope I can get my alternative citizenship sorted out in time.
pigtail

pigtail Avatar

Location: Southern California
Gender: Female


Posted: Jul 24, 2017 - 10:31am

 kurtster wrote:

CdMHS Class of 1970.  The wife is Class of 1971.  Lived in Cameo Highlands.  Surrey Drive up top in the back.  Back when Lincoln was a JrHS it was possible to see the Matterhorn at Disneyland from a couple of my classroom windows on a clear day..  There were Irvine Ranch cows outside the fence of the athletic field on the west side of it.  Cow tipping at recess :)

Loved every minute of it.

 
yep my dad lives in Cameo Highlands. 
Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 24, 2017 - 10:20am

 Lazy8 wrote:
This is a very illuminating look at the current immigration debate, at the hysteria surrounding it and the people exploiting it. It starts out with an immigration controversy in Homer, Alaska—a place without immigration problems and for the most part without immigrants, where nonetheless passions can be aroused and fear stoked and exploited. It also explores the Rockville, Maryland sexual assault case that got so much attention in the right wing media and subsequently here in this very thread.

If you're interested in the current immigration debate I urge you to give it a listen. If you stake out your position in that debate based on fear I beg you to listen to it.

621: Fear and Loathing in Homer and Rockville

Jul 21, 2017
This week we look at two different towns grappling with a question the country is trying to make sense of – who do we let in? One town has immigrants that became the focus of national news. The other, a small town in Alaska, hardly has any immigrants at all.


 
Yes, I listened to that over the weekend.  It was very well produced and well rounded, as well as enlightening.
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 24, 2017 - 9:37am

This is a very illuminating look at the current immigration debate, at the hysteria surrounding it and the people exploiting it. It starts out with an immigration controversy in Homer, Alaska—a place without immigration problems and for the most part without immigrants, where nonetheless passions can be aroused and fear stoked and exploited. It also explores the Rockville, Maryland sexual assault case that got so much attention in the right wing media and subsequently here in this very thread.

If you're interested in the current immigration debate I urge you to give it a listen. If you stake out your position in that debate based on fear I beg you to listen to it.

621: Fear and Loathing in Homer and Rockville

Jul 21, 2017
This week we look at two different towns grappling with a question the country is trying to make sense of – who do we let in? One town has immigrants that became the focus of national news. The other, a small town in Alaska, hardly has any immigrants at all.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 5, 2017 - 3:47pm

 pigtail wrote:

I grew up in Corona Del Mar and my dad still lives there.

 
CdMHS Class of 1970.  The wife is Class of 1971.  Lived in Cameo Highlands.  Surrey Drive up top in the back.  Back when Lincoln was a JrHS it was possible to see the Matterhorn at Disneyland from a couple of my classroom windows on a clear day..  There were Irvine Ranch cows outside the fence of the athletic field on the west side of it.  Cow tipping at recess :)

Loved every minute of it.


pigtail

pigtail Avatar

Location: Southern California
Gender: Female


Posted: Jul 5, 2017 - 3:37pm

 kurtster wrote:

Very well put and thoughtful.  I too, grew up in California in the 50's and 60's.  In NorCal and SoCal.  Never really got to know any Mexicans until I moved to SoCal in the mid 60's.  But in the Bay Area in the 50's and 60's I knew and grew up with many Asians, Chinese and Japanese.  I came to admire their culture, traditions and respect for the family structure.  It has been an important part of my life view since the beginning.

On Mexicans, since this article is predominantly regarding Mexicans as opposed to all immigrants, the experiences I had with them were normal and pleasant as could be expected.  SoCal was decidedly Mexican in overtones with the culture and architecture and simply the names of places that made up the area back then.  The town I lived in was named Corona del Mar.  Crown of the Sea.  Moving to Cleveland, my second wife's sister was married to a Mexican and we all had a great time in family get togethers and what not.  No bad blood or any aversions.  Not to mention that when I moved to Cleveland in the early 70's there was a recognized 92 separate ethnic cultures alive and well here.  I have experienced cultural diversity throughout my life and benefited from it greatly.  I am not xenophobic.

Having said all of that, immigration is not the problem, illegal immigration is the problem.

peace and out ...

.
An edit ...  A little history lesson for those who conflate things a little too easily.  Mexicans as an ethnicity have only been in North America since the late 1500's.  They are the result of rape of the indigenous by the Spanish conquistadors led by Cortes.  The Mayans and Aztecs were a separate ethnicity and their surviving descendants are the true natives.  They have been cast aside as the Mexican ethnicity grew and came to dominate the region.  If Mexicans are said to be native with so called native rights, what about those of us who came here to America in the early 1600's ?  By that token, do not those of us have the same or similar rights based upon the same longevity within a region ?  Just a thought.

 
I grew up in Corona Del Mar and my dad still lives there.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 5, 2017 - 2:48pm

 miamizsun wrote:

A Kind Word on Behalf of Mexicans

Overall, I have found Mexicans—both those with whom I grew up in California and those among whom I now reside in Mexico—on average to be fine people in all relevant dimensions. They are devoted to their families and love their children. They are extremely hard workers, often under extraordinarily difficult and unpleasant conditions. They are good-natured and friendly, courteous and generous. They are also in many cases surprisingly resourceful, knowing how to build or repair all sorts of things, often without proper tools or materials. Many of them have an artistic capacity that allows them to create various products that are not only practical but also beautiful. Centuries of oppression and brutality by the ruling classes have not destroyed their hope for a better future, and they are often willing to bear great personal costs in order to make that future better for themselves and their children.


 
Very well put and thoughtful.  I too, grew up in California in the 50's and 60's.  In NorCal and SoCal.  Never really got to know any Mexicans until I moved to SoCal in the mid 60's.  But in the Bay Area in the 50's and 60's I knew and grew up with many Asians, Chinese and Japanese.  I came to admire their culture, traditions and respect for the family structure.  It has been an important part of my life view since the beginning.

On Mexicans, since this article is predominantly regarding Mexicans as opposed to all immigrants, the experiences I had with them were normal and pleasant as could be expected.  SoCal was decidedly Mexican in overtones with the culture and architecture and simply the names of places that made up the area back then.  The town I lived in was named Corona del Mar.  Crown of the Sea.  Moving to Cleveland, my second wife's sister was married to a Mexican and we all had a great time in family get togethers and what not.  No bad blood or any aversions.  Not to mention that when I moved to Cleveland in the early 70's there was a recognized 92 separate ethnic cultures alive and well here.  I have experienced cultural diversity throughout my life and benefited from it greatly.  I am not xenophobic.

Having said all of that, immigration is not the problem, illegal immigration is the problem.

peace and out ...

.
An edit ...  A little history lesson for those who conflate things a little too easily.  Mexicans as an ethnicity have only been in North America since the late 1500's.  They are the result of rape of the indigenous by the Spanish conquistadors led by Cortes.  The Mayans and Aztecs were a separate ethnicity and their surviving descendants are the true natives.  They have been cast aside as the Mexican ethnicity grew and came to dominate the region.  If Mexicans are said to be native with so called native rights, what about those of us who came here to America in the early 1600's ?  By that token, do not those of us have the same or similar rights based upon the same longevity within a region ?  Just a thought.


aflanigan

aflanigan Avatar

Location: At Sea
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 5, 2017 - 1:58pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
As if it mattered...

The Rockville Rape Case Is a Cautionary Tale for Anti-Immigrant Zealots and Victims’ Advocates

Maryland no longer prosecuting Henry Sanchez Milian and Jose Montano for sexual assault.

The state of Maryland is no longer pursuing sexual assault charges against two teenagers who were accused of dragging a 14-year-old girl into the bathroom of Rockville High School and raping her.

The accused students, 18-year-old Henry Sanchez Milian and 17-year-old Jose Montano, are reportedly immigrants who entered the U.S. illegally. That made them people of great interest for foes of illegal immigration: Right-leaning pundits cited the pair as evidence that our schools were threatened by armies of illegal immigrant rapists. #RockvilleRape was a popular topic on Fox News, where one guest said "they're raping and killing our people, and that's why Trump won." Breitbart continuously played up the gruesome details, noting that "the suspects allegedly forced a girl to perform oral sex on them in a bathroom stall while they raped and sodomized her, despite her crying out in pain, begging them to stop, police said."

Now the case against the two teens has collapsed.


 
Missed this when it came out. Thanks for posting.
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 30, 2017 - 8:13am

 miamizsun wrote:

A Kind Word on Behalf of Mexicans

Overall, I have found Mexicans—both those with whom I grew up in California and those among whom I now reside in Mexico—on average to be fine people in all relevant dimensions. They are devoted to their families and love their children. They are extremely hard workers, often under extraordinarily difficult and unpleasant conditions. They are good-natured and friendly, courteous and generous. They are also in many cases surprisingly resourceful, knowing how to build or repair all sorts of things, often without proper tools or materials. Many of them have an artistic capacity that allows them to create various products that are not only practical but also beautiful. Centuries of oppression and brutality by the ruling classes have not destroyed their hope for a better future, and they are often willing to bear great personal costs in order to make that future better for themselves and their children.


 




That has been my experience as well and also with other latin American countries which living in S. Florida you are aware of. When I lived there, the Latinos were for the most part the only friendly people. The Canadians and New Jerseyans made up the rest of the population and you were best to avoid them! lol
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 30, 2017 - 8:02am

A Kind Word on Behalf of Mexicans

Overall, I have found Mexicans—both those with whom I grew up in California and those among whom I now reside in Mexico—on average to be fine people in all relevant dimensions. They are devoted to their families and love their children. They are extremely hard workers, often under extraordinarily difficult and unpleasant conditions. They are good-natured and friendly, courteous and generous. They are also in many cases surprisingly resourceful, knowing how to build or repair all sorts of things, often without proper tools or materials. Many of them have an artistic capacity that allows them to create various products that are not only practical but also beautiful. Centuries of oppression and brutality by the ruling classes have not destroyed their hope for a better future, and they are often willing to bear great personal costs in order to make that future better for themselves and their children.



Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: May 5, 2017 - 3:03pm

As if it mattered...

The Rockville Rape Case Is a Cautionary Tale for Anti-Immigrant Zealots and Victims’ Advocates

Maryland no longer prosecuting Henry Sanchez Milian and Jose Montano for sexual assault.

The state of Maryland is no longer pursuing sexual assault charges against two teenagers who were accused of dragging a 14-year-old girl into the bathroom of Rockville High School and raping her.

The accused students, 18-year-old Henry Sanchez Milian and 17-year-old Jose Montano, are reportedly immigrants who entered the U.S. illegally. That made them people of great interest for foes of illegal immigration: Right-leaning pundits cited the pair as evidence that our schools were threatened by armies of illegal immigrant rapists. #RockvilleRape was a popular topic on Fox News, where one guest said "they're raping and killing our people, and that's why Trump won." Breitbart continuously played up the gruesome details, noting that "the suspects allegedly forced a girl to perform oral sex on them in a bathroom stall while they raped and sodomized her, despite her crying out in pain, begging them to stop, police said."

Now the case against the two teens has collapsed.

sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 12, 2017 - 12:05pm

 sirdroseph wrote:
 R_P wrote:
Wages rise on California farms. Americans still don’t want the job
Trump’s immigration crackdown is supposed to help U.S. citizens. For California farmers, it’s worsening a desperate labor shortage.

 








All we have to do is to give California back (at least from say San Francisco south, Emerald Triangle needs to remain with us) to its rightful owners, Mexico. Boom! Everyone is a legal citizen and Californian residents no longer have to put up with the United States. See? I am solutions oriented.

 




Well, well, well. It seems I am not the only one who supports this plan, there are leaders in Mexico who are on the same page! They want Texas and some other southwest states as well which not being a big fan of desert I am good with, but we should offer California and they should be good with that.

http://www.businessinsider.com/old-us-mexico-border-called-for-1846-2017-4




"They are making the case that Mexico should return to its 1848 boundaries, before the United States snatched large chunks of their territory, including most of California, Utah, Nevada, New Mexico, and Arizona, during the Mexican-American war.

Cuauhtémoc Cárdenas, a respected left-wing politician and former presidential candidate, is leading the charge. He has been calling for the Mexican government to bring a lawsuit against the United States in the International Court of Justice, for reparations and indemnification.

“We are going to make a strong and tough case, because we are right. They were in Mexican territory in a military invasion,” Guillermo Hamdan Castro, a lawyer working with Cárdenas on the case, told reporters in March.

The gambit hinges on a line in the first sentence of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, the document that sealed America’s victory over Mexico on Feb. 2, 1848 at the end of the Mexican-American war. The sentence includes an admission the U.S. army invaded Mexico, and Hamdan argues that signing an agreement under such duress renders it null, and therefore Mexican immigrants can’t be expelled."

Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 3, 2017 - 3:33pm

kurtster wrote:
1)  Accepting a grant is a choice.  A choice to agree with the terms and conditions or not and turn down the grant.  No mandates, choices.

The grants were made without said conditions and accepted on that basis. Trump wants to change the rules after the fact, which is counter to what Congress voted on.

2)  Indefinite detention ?  Unlikely.  Where are all the complaints of indefinite detention regarding these detainer warrants ?

Embedded in the list of jurisdictions declining detainers you posted. The jurisdictions have to pay for the jail space, and some are insisting the feds cover that before honoring the detainers. If that were no big deal (see item 4 below) why would ICE even mention it?

3) A) Specious ...

You're telling me!

B)   Yes.  Used your exact words for search terms.  Known almost immediately, depending on where you get your news.  Evidence of how little this is being covered in the National Media Sphere of Influence.  Why is that (rhetorical) ?

Clicky for more proof from local outlet.  Please note the date of the article.

This is one of the things you learn when you actually find out what the law says: those kids weren't criminals just for being here without visas. That's not a criminal statute. You won't face jail time for it, just deportation. So the very term "illegal alien" is a misnomer.

Their status was unclear when they were picked up or they would have already been deported. They could rot in a holding cell until ICE and the immigration courts decide what to do about them (which happens a distressing fraction of the time; I need to emphasize that these people are children who have just made journeys—on their own—of thousands of miles in many cases, facing hardships you can't imagine or won't contemplate), or they can be released to the custody of relatives—who will house and feed them with no cost to the taxpayers.

4)  Bill the feds for services rendered.  Happens all the time.  Not necessary if you've accepted a grant, you're paid in advance.

See above.

5)  Aren't we pretty much saying the same thing here ?  We already allow an average of a million a year.  That is no small number.  Guest workers, yes.  Didn't I mention something that would be the same thing in essence ?

No. No, we're not.

You want harsh treatment for the symptoms of a mostly-non-existent problem before we reform the law when the law is at the root of some very real problems. And there are actual human beings involved, people with lives and communities that depend on them to disrupt. That doesn't seem to be worth mentioning.

The numbers are large because we're a very large country, but let me point out some more large numbers: the wait times before the few legal pathways that are actually open will allow a family to reunite or a business or university to hire a unique talent. It can take 10 years from most countries to get a visa for a family member (double that for visas from Mexico—they are "oversubscribed"). Children have to be under 21 and unmarried at the time of the visa issuance. That means that if you apply for a visa when your kid is 11 (or a year old in Mexico) that kid will grow up (without you) while stuck in the queue, then turn 21 and the whole effort collapses.

Yeah, it's nobody you know. Still a problem—a problem we could actually fix. But won't, while we wait for a wall we can't afford and airtight dragnets on our neighbors.


Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 3, 2017 - 2:52pm

 kurtster wrote:
Here's the latest report about all those grandma's and their crimes that Sanctuary Cities are preventing from being transferred to ICE custody.

 ENFORCEMENT AND REMOVAL OPERATIONS

Weekly Declined Detainer Outcome Report For Recorded Declined Detainers Feb 4 – Feb 10, 2017

Sorry it took me so long to respond to this, been busy. And—time to 'fess up—I've been busy working on a refugee resettlement project.

Part of that project is studying the relevant law. Last night I was at an immigration law seminar and I'm currently enrolled in an online college course on international refugee law. So between that, other volunteer stuff, and life it's been tough to pay attention to online arguments.

Back to the topic at hand: go look at the list of detainers, and look at the crimes listed. See all the ones labeled "charged"? Those people haven't been convicted yet. They have court dates they'll have to show up for.

If you have a murder suspect why would you turn him over to ICE for deportation? Wouldn't you want to try and convict him rather than let him escape to a foreign country via Uncle Sam's travel service? The outrage is misplaced here.

Go look at the list of jurisdictions and the conditions they put in place on honoring an ICE detainer. They aren't all blanket refusals, many have exceptions for felony convictions, court orders, etc. And some have requirements that ICE pay for any costs incurred. Don't know if ICE would pay such an invoice when they can get all the people they need to meet their quotas without having to pay to jail them.

You're trying to paint this as something it's not, but that's the immigration debate for you.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 30, 2017 - 4:47pm

Here's the latest report about all those grandma's and their crimes that Sanctuary Cities are preventing from being transferred to ICE custody.

 ENFORCEMENT AND REMOVAL OPERATIONS

Weekly Declined Detainer Outcome Report For Recorded Declined Detainers Feb 4 – Feb 10, 2017


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 30, 2017 - 10:02am

 Lazy8 wrote:

1) Sorry, thought we were discussing the legal precedents. As the Supremes ruled in the Prinz case the feds can't mandate that local law enforcement enforce federal law. Making that a condition of receiving grants (as authorized by Congress) is unconstitutional.

2) If it's that high a priority ICE can get there in time to pick the suspect up; otherwise you're arguing for indefinite detention.

If ICE doesn't get there in time all the suspect's particulars (address, court dates, etc.) are available from local law enforcement. They can go find him, that's their job.

3) A)  If only no illegal immigrants ever came here then illegal immigrants would commit no crimes. Got it.

B)  So you know the suspects in the Rockville crime were caught and released? Where did you hear that?

4) See #2.

5) No, really, there wasn't. In fact you used those very words more than once—with no actual description of how that would be accomplished.

You can't enforce a law against someone until you can catch him. How do you do that, beyond what's already being done?  Non compliance with the visa terms will not be tolerated; they're already not tolerated. Get caught overstaying a visa and you'll be deported. How do you propose to accelerate the catching part?

My solution: reform immigration laws so that legal immigration is a practical option, that the waits and uncertainties weren't a question of decades but days. Make it possible for guest workers to come and work legally. Provide a legal path to living and working in the US—a path that's actually open—and illegal immigration will drop.

 
1)  Accepting a grant is a choice.  A choice to agree with the terms and conditions or not and turn down the grant.  No mandates, choices.

2)  Indefinite detention ?  Unlikely.  Where are all the complaints of indefinite detention regarding these detainer warrants ? 

3) A) Specious ... 

    B)   Yes.  Used your exact words for search terms.  Known almost immediately, depending on where you get your news.  Evidence of how little this is being covered in the National Media Sphere of Influence.  Why is that (rhetorical) ?

Clicky for more proof from local outlet.  Please note the date of the article.

4)  Bill the feds for services rendered.  Happens all the time.  Not necessary if you've accepted a grant, you're paid in advance.

5)  Aren't we pretty much saying the same thing here ?  We already allow an average of a million a year.  That is no small number.  Guest workers, yes.  Didn't I mention something that would be the same thing in essence ?
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 30, 2017 - 8:51am

 kurtster wrote:

1)  You brought up the matter of DOJ withholding funds for Sanctuary Cities.  Cities that choose to ignore federal immigration laws.  The specific here is withholding funds for law enforcement.  I think that these are directly related.  There are no bridges involved. 

2)  Requests from ICE to continue holding someone in custody until ICE can come in and pick them up and transfer custody.  To refuse to honor a detainer is to effectively interfere with the legal process and block deportation should that be the eventual outcome.

3)  Again you limit your thinking.  If the borders were actually defended and trespassers caught at the border and returned immediately, it would then be preventable.  Catch and release is not the answer.  It is how these suspects were allowed to keep on going until arriving in Rockville.  Catch and return would have prevented this particular crime.  We already know that the oldest suspect was in fact caught and released.  I believe that true of the younger but not sure.  

4)  This is obvious. see 2 above. 

5)  There was much more than just enforce the laws mentioned.  What is your solution ?  Open borders and no rules I bet.
 
1) Sorry, thought we were discussing the legal precedents. As the Supremes ruled in the Prinz case the feds can't mandate that local law enforcement enforce federal law. Making that a condition of receiving grants (as authorized by Congress) is unconstitutional.

2) If it's that high a priority ICE can get there in time to pick the suspect up; otherwise you're arguing for indefinite detention.

If ICE doesn't get there in time all the suspect's particulars (address, court dates, etc.) are available from local law enforcement. They can go find him, that's their job.

3) If only no illegal immigrants ever came here then illegal immigrants would commit no crimes. Got it.

So you know the suspects in the Rockville crime were caught and released? Where did you hear that?

4) See #2.

5) No, really, there wasn't. In fact you used those very words more than once—with no actual description of how that would be accomplished.

You can't enforce a law against someone until you can catch him. How do you do that, beyond what's already being done?  Non compliance with the visa terms will not be tolerated; they're already not tolerated. Get caught overstaying a visa and you'll be deported. How do you propose to accelerate the catching part?

My solution: reform immigration laws so that legal immigration is a practical option, that the waits and uncertainties weren't a question of decades but days. Make it possible for guest workers to come and work legally. Provide a legal path to living and working in the US—a path that's actually open—and illegal immigration will drop.
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