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Mixtape Culture Club - miamizsun - Oct 13, 2019 - 7:09am
 
Poetry Forum - Antigone - Oct 12, 2019 - 4:28pm
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - haresfur - Oct 12, 2019 - 1:40pm
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - BillG - Oct 12, 2019 - 10:44am
 
Eclectic mix not working - BillG - Oct 12, 2019 - 9:22am
 
Celebrity Deaths - miamizsun - Oct 12, 2019 - 7:07am
 
Dialing 1-800-Manbird - haresfur - Oct 12, 2019 - 2:18am
 
RP is not available Echo - WestMidsMatt - Oct 12, 2019 - 1:57am
 
Roku Update Wishlist - BillG - Oct 11, 2019 - 7:36pm
 
Lyrics That Remind You of Someone - buddy - Oct 11, 2019 - 6:41pm
 
Which Five Guests? - buddy - Oct 11, 2019 - 6:37pm
 
Top Lists - R_P - Oct 11, 2019 - 4:02pm
 
Derplahoma Questions and Points of Interest - Red_Dragon - Oct 11, 2019 - 1:11pm
 
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Canada - westslope - Oct 11, 2019 - 8:28am
 
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Suggestion: Americana Mix - davekrug - Oct 10, 2019 - 3:20pm
 
New Music - R_P - Oct 10, 2019 - 3:16pm
 
• • • Clownstock • • •  - Proclivities - Oct 10, 2019 - 1:47pm
 
Advertising Gone Mad - Proclivities - Oct 10, 2019 - 1:44pm
 
Old Time and Folk - miamizsun - Oct 10, 2019 - 1:13pm
 
HALF A WORD - miamizsun - Oct 10, 2019 - 1:04pm
 
Mexico - R_P - Oct 10, 2019 - 12:52pm
 
Things that make you go Hmmmm..... - Proclivities - Oct 10, 2019 - 11:54am
 
Trump Lies - Proclivities - Oct 10, 2019 - 11:48am
 
HALF A WORLD - Proclivities - Oct 10, 2019 - 10:46am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Oct 10, 2019 - 8:38am
 
Party planning advice - Proclivities - Oct 10, 2019 - 6:53am
 
FLAC stream - black321 - Oct 10, 2019 - 6:07am
 
Cuban, Venezuelan, DR music - miamizsun - Oct 10, 2019 - 5:18am
 
Interview: Samuel L. Jackson - Egctheow - Oct 10, 2019 - 1:29am
 
Best Radio Station in the World - KurtfromLaQuinta - Oct 9, 2019 - 5:07pm
 
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R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 23, 2019 - 5:25pm

 kurtster wrote:
Catch and Release is in fact a de facto open border ...

Still dodging and adding straw with them Trumpist tropes...
Rhetorically, the trope of widespread, pernicious “catch and release” should be understood as a new variation on Trump’s favorite themes: that immigrants are infiltrating the homeland and importing violence and crime, and border agents can’t be as tough as they need to be because of feckless politicians — Democrats, mostly — who don’t believe in borders.

What you can’t tell by listening to Trump is that “catch and release” doesn’t refer to a single policy practiced by the government. It’s a label that gets applied to a handful of different practices that all have the same result: The US keeps trying to deport an immigrant, but it releases her from physical custody.

Deporting someone isn’t as simple as spotting her, handcuffing her, and putting her on a plane. Immigrants have to be issued an official order of removal — and usually, it needs to be issued by an immigration judge. Immigration courts are so backlogged right now that a wait to see a judge could take weeks; if an immigrant actually has an argument to be  allowed to stay in the United States, it could be years before the case is resolved.
But patriots prefer putting people in concentration camps indefinitely (while turning a handsome profit). Win-win!
kurtster

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Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 23, 2019 - 5:10pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
 
I don't see a policy proposal for de jure open borders. I see proposed reform in the margins on existing law for trespassers (as offered in a televised debate). Still a(nother) straw man.

So you already have open borders, and yet some want (more?) open borders. I guess all these Border Patrol people are twiddling their thumbs and posting on Facebook as they just let everybody through... "Walk right through, we don't need no stinkin' visas. Have a great day!"
 
Catch and Release is in fact a de facto open border ...
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 23, 2019 - 4:31pm

 kurtster wrote:
 
I don't see a policy proposal for de jure open borders. I see proposed reform in the margins on existing law for trespassers (as offered in a televised debate). Still a(nother) straw man.

So you already have open borders, and yet some want (more?) open borders. I guess all these Border Patrol people are twiddling their thumbs and posting on Facebook as they just let everybody through... "Walk right through, we don't need no stinkin' visas. Have a great day!"
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jul 23, 2019 - 4:13pm

Imaginary lines kill.
kurtster

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Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 23, 2019 - 4:06pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
Tell me why.

I could not disagree more.  Some of the democratic party candidates have declared that as part of their agenda.
 
Show me (and the rest of the class), and then tell me how much power these supposed candidates have in making policy AND getting it passed as law...

PS: Since we're hunting a straw man, those would be candidates with a policy for de jure open borders, not de facto.
 

We already have de facto open borders.

.
2020 Democrats Overwhelmingly Back Decriminalizing Border Crossings In Thursday Debate
kurtster

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Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 23, 2019 - 3:55pm

 black321 wrote:

LA doesnt look much different than when i was there 25 years ago.  I like Miami's idea.  If you make it fair and easy to get legal access, combined with harsh rules for those attempting illegal entry, people will be inclined to follow the rules.  
 
Define fair and easy.  

Would fair and easy mean that meaningful identification documents are optional and we take your word as to who you are why you are coming here ?  I say that because asking that of US citizens when they show up to vote is now considered racist and hateful.

Also come January 2020 anyone who tries to board a commercial plane in the US will have to prove their identity with a certified Federal ID.  It will require having your birth certificate as proof of who you are.  The freedom of travel is now formally restricted within our borders.  Thought that by the time I reached my present age I would never need to have my birth certificate to prove who I am anymore.  Seems that the state issued DL I have had for over 40 years is not considered valid enough.  Silly me ... 

What else would be part of a fair and easy and enforceable solution ?  

It is unreasonable for me to expect a reply based upon my mostly rhetorical question.  Somewhere, sometime, someone has to be the bad guy and say no, you cannot come in because ...    

Until we agree on what because is, there will be no solution(s).
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 23, 2019 - 3:06pm

 kurtster wrote:
Tell me why.

I could not disagree more.  Some of the democratic party candidates have declared that as part of their agenda.
 
Show me (and the rest of the class), and then tell me how much power these supposed candidates have in making policy AND getting it passed as law...

PS: Since we're hunting a straw man, those would be candidates with a policy for de jure open borders, not de facto.
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: A sunset in the desert
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 23, 2019 - 3:04pm



 kurtster wrote:

Tell me why.

I could not disagree more.  Some of the democratic party candidates have declared that as part of their agenda.
 

And trump called immigrants rapists and drug dealers.  Where are we going with this?
kurtster

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Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 23, 2019 - 3:01pm

 R_P wrote:
"Open borders" is a big fat straw man.
 
Tell me why.

I could not disagree more.  Some of the democratic party candidates have declared that as part of their agenda.
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: A sunset in the desert
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 23, 2019 - 3:00pm



 kurtster wrote:
 

LA doesnt look much different than when i was there 25 years ago.  I like Miami's idea.  If you make it fair and easy to get legal access, combined with harsh rules for those attempting illegal entry, people will be inclined to follow the rules.  
R_P

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Posted: Jul 23, 2019 - 2:55pm

"Open borders" is a big fat straw man.
kurtster

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Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 23, 2019 - 2:52pm

 black321 wrote:


 Lazy8 wrote:
While I'd rather hear this straight from the agent it's still pretty damning. The agency responsible didn't just spring out of the current administration, it's been a reservoir of authoritarian abuse thru its entire history. While I worry about the damage we're doing to the people in cages what do we do with the people guarding them? How do we redeem a government agency where every officer in it has been complicit in this ongoing atrocity?

A Border Patrol Agent Reveals What It’s Really Like to Guard Migrant Children

With the agency under fire for holding children in deplorable conditions and over racist and misogynistic Facebook posts, one agent speaks about what it’s like to do his job. “Somewhere down the line people just accepted what’s going on as normal.”

 

Compelling piece.  What's the solution for a country increasingly divided on this?  Many want a wall, others open borders.  Somewhere in between seems the worst of both worlds, judging by what we've "accomplished" to date.  
 
I read it.  Nothing unexpected in the piece.  So this is what most people do when faced with an overwhelming situation, they detach or decay as sane human beings.

With no detention centers, we have open borders.  With no rules being followed, we have open borders. 

With open borders we have chaos.  With open borders we have anarchy.  Open borders means everyone for themselves.

We have those who are complaining about the conditions yet work even harder to block any efforts to improve the humanitarian conditions.

Whose job or duty is it to fix this ?  And why haven't they fixed this ?

There is only one choice available.  Either we start enforcing the existing laws and fix the bad ones or we give up, declare our laws meaningless and open up the borders to any and all who wants to cross.  Either we have enforced restrictions for entry or we don't.  

Open borders also renders citizenship to be worthless.  That is the ultimate goal of the globalists as I perceive it.  To replace the term citizen with resident and end the national sovereignty that provides and protects the rights of its citizens.  Somewhere in this ramble, the fate of private property rights also comes up in the long term reality.  Easier to take property from residents than citizens.

I also have visions of our country looking like this everywhere with open borders ...

L A  January 2017.  I seriously doubt that things have improved there since this picture was taken.



R_P

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Posted: Jul 23, 2019 - 2:21pm

If you look like a rapist/thug/etc...
A Dallas-born citizen picked up by the Border Patrol has been detained for three weeks
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: A sunset in the desert
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 23, 2019 - 1:46pm



 miamizsun wrote:


de-politicize the entire process

of course this won't happen over night

both parties are grandstanding/posturing for votes

the fight for political power and control has ugly consequences

if it was up to me, i'd just let them go

screen for some diseases, a basic background check and let them go free

it needs to end like all other wars: after enough damage, destruction, death and debt, you just stop

just come home and do something productive

let peaceful people alone

let them be

that's it
 

Yup, and when i fart, fairies fly out of my ass.  Just kidding.  I agree, but just can't seem to imagine that world anymore.  
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 23, 2019 - 1:11pm

 black321 wrote:
Compelling piece.  What's the solution for a country increasingly divided on this?  Many want a wall, others open borders.  Somewhere in between seems the worst of both worlds, judging by what we've "accomplished" to date.  
 

de-politicize the entire process

of course this won't happen over night

both parties are grandstanding/posturing for votes

the fight for political power and control has ugly consequences

if it was up to me, i'd just let them go

screen for some diseases, a basic background check and let them go free

it needs to end like all other wars: after enough damage, destruction, death and debt, you just stop

just come home and do something productive

let peaceful people alone

let them be

that's it
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: A sunset in the desert
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 23, 2019 - 12:41pm



 Lazy8 wrote:
While I'd rather hear this straight from the agent it's still pretty damning. The agency responsible didn't just spring out of the current administration, it's been a reservoir of authoritarian abuse thru its entire history. While I worry about the damage we're doing to the people in cages what do we do with the people guarding them? How do we redeem a government agency where every officer in it has been complicit in this ongoing atrocity?

A Border Patrol Agent Reveals What It’s Really Like to Guard Migrant Children

With the agency under fire for holding children in deplorable conditions and over racist and misogynistic Facebook posts, one agent speaks about what it’s like to do his job. “Somewhere down the line people just accepted what’s going on as normal.”


 

Compelling piece.  What's the solution for a country increasingly divided on this?  Many want a wall, others open borders.  Somewhere in between seems the worst of both worlds, judging by what we've "accomplished" to date.  
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 23, 2019 - 8:13am

While I'd rather hear this straight from the agent it's still pretty damning. The agency responsible didn't just spring out of the current administration, it's been a reservoir of authoritarian abuse thru its entire history. While I worry about the damage we're doing to the people in cages what do we do with the people guarding them? How do we redeem a government agency where every officer in it has been complicit in this ongoing atrocity?

A Border Patrol Agent Reveals What It’s Really Like to Guard Migrant Children

With the agency under fire for holding children in deplorable conditions and over racist and misogynistic Facebook posts, one agent speaks about what it’s like to do his job. “Somewhere down the line people just accepted what’s going on as normal.”


R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 9:26am

Imperial Borders and Mythical Frontiers
The Cruel Truth of Immigration and American Empire
As the American empire spread, the American nation fortified its borders. At the turn of the century the first checkpoints were built along the US-Mexico border. In 1917 laws were passed that mandated literacy tests, entry fees, and quota restrictions for immigrants, and in 1924 the US Border Patrol was created. In the 1920s, Herbert Hoover deported over a million people to Mexico (an estimated 60 percent were US citizens of Mexican descent), and in his 1932 presidential campaign he scapegoated Mexican migrant workers for low wages and lack of jobs at home. The “border-fication of our politics” (as Grandin 
calls it) had begun. As we invaded more countries, we worried that we were under threat of secret invasion ourselves. Anti-immigrationists in the 1920s fabricated stories of thousands of Communists sneaking in through our southern border (years later it was rumored the whole Chinese Army was in Mexico prepping for invasion). Today, anti-immigrationists claim Arabic pamphlets are found in the Arizona desert, left by Islamic terrorists coming in the same way the make-believe Communists did.

“For most of the twentieth century,” writes Grandin, “the United States’ border with Mexico had served as the shadow side of the nation’s frontier universalism, a two-thousand-mile-long margin to which racist extremism was relegated.” The extremism Grandin catalogs—the violence and exploitation—is horrifying. Hispanic migrant workers murdered by anti-immigrant goons; migrant workers transported to Texas farms by US Border Patrol only to be raided and deported by that same agency just before payday; Hispanic women traded to judges for a blind eye and to a sports team for season tickets.

“It is tempting,” writes Grandin, to think the border myth is a “more accurate assessment of how the world works, especially when compared to the myth of the frontier.” The border wall, he continues,
is a monument to disenchantment, to a kind of brutal geopolitical realism: racism was never transcended; there’s not enough to go around; the global economy will have winners and losers; not all can sit at the table; and government policies should be organized around accepting these truths.

haresfur

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Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 14, 2019 - 10:52pm



 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
and then there is this plonker 
In reply, Daniel Lawes, the founder and chief executive of YouthPolitics UK, tweeted: “Captained by an immigrant, batting led by an immigrant, fastest bowler an immigrant, leading all-rounder an immigrant, main spinner son of an immigrant.”


 Yeah, they can do without all those great French and German cricketers. 


NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 14, 2019 - 10:44pm

and then there is this plonker 
In reply, Daniel Lawes, the founder and chief executive of YouthPolitics UK, tweeted: “Captained by an immigrant, batting led by an immigrant, fastest bowler an immigrant, leading all-rounder an immigrant, main spinner son of an immigrant.”
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