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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Ask an Atheist Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 52, 53, 54  Next
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R_P

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Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 1:40pm

 Ohmsen wrote:
 Red_Dragon wrote:

 
<quote>Curse and displeasure<unquote>, yes. Bashing religion, yes. Not really what I asked, an opposite, rather.
 
You missed the answer: it's innate.
Ohmsen

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Location: Valhalla
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Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 1:34pm



 Red_Dragon wrote:


 Ohmsen wrote:



<quote>Curse and displeasure<unquote>, yes. Bashing religion, yes. Not really what I asked, an opposite, rather.
 

Pointing out the horrific realities of it qualifies as "bashing"?
 

I was asking about goodness and moral values. ~ While there certainly is no shortage of moral values being put in front, as the New Atheism morphed into the Social Justice movement seems beyond debate. 

Yet where the focus goes, the energy flows. 

Meaning, I can concentrate on this or that, and strengthen it this way. ~ Why does it always have to be negative with these atheist lighthouse-keepers? Negative in negating the purposed 'other'? Concentrating on 'their' failures and wrongdoings?

Does that lead to any progress for society as a whole? 

Since Cain and Abel, not. 

*chuckle*
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 1:28pm



 Ohmsen wrote:



<quote>Curse and displeasure<unquote>, yes. Bashing religion, yes. Not really what I asked, an opposite, rather.
 

Pointing out the horrific realities of it qualifies as "bashing"?
Ohmsen

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Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 1:23pm



 Red_Dragon wrote:

 

<quote>Curse and displeasure<unquote>, yes. Bashing religion, yes. Not really what I asked, an opposite, rather.
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 1:18pm

 Ohmsen wrote:
What of goodness and moral values?

Those 4 horsemen don't necessarily seem to follow. ~ Or?!
 
Ohmsen

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Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 1:12pm

What of goodness and moral values?

Those 4 horsemen don't necessarily seem to follow. ~ Or?!
Ohmsen

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Posted: Apr 19, 2020 - 12:43pm

Hahaha.. 
R_P

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Posted: Apr 19, 2020 - 12:38pm

 buddy wrote:
Oh, it’s definitely us.
 
Definitely some of us.

buddy

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Posted: Apr 19, 2020 - 11:59am



 Lazy8 wrote:

 

Oh, it’s definitely us.
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Apr 19, 2020 - 9:06am



 Lazy8 wrote:

 




Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
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Posted: Apr 19, 2020 - 9:03am


R_P

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Posted: Apr 17, 2020 - 12:53pm

 black321 wrote:
Directions?  Never.
 
Are you looking for directions?

black321

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Posted: Apr 16, 2020 - 5:00pm

Directions?  Never.
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Apr 16, 2020 - 4:47pm



 Lazy8 wrote:

If you want to see the whole thing (rather than a cherry-picked snippet) you can watch the debate below. It's rather interesting (if somewhat long at almost 2 hours) and I recommend it.

 
Indeed. I think I've seen most of Hitch's debates - including that one - and in every case he hands them their ass.

Lazy8

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Posted: Apr 16, 2020 - 4:43pm

Ohmsen wrote:

A hearty debate:

If you want to see the whole thing (rather than a cherry-picked snippet) you can watch the debate below. It's rather interesting (if somewhat long at almost 2 hours) and I recommend it.

Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
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Posted: Apr 16, 2020 - 4:36pm

Ohmsen wrote:
Well, did you really read the article, and not only peer over it's graphs? 

It states the movement of New Atheism dissolved as such, first into Atheism-Plus, which is Atheism + Social Justice movements, and eventually dissolved further into a singular Social Justice movement. 

Also, I wasn't aiming at success of religionism, much less at that of any churchism here. 


The term "New Atheism" was one coined outside the actual atheist movement by a journalist. The usual suspects (the "Four Horsemen" listed in the first article) never used it that I know of. Tom Flynn wrote a nice compact criticism of the moniker and the associated characterization of the atheist movement for Rational Inquiry magazine (unfortunately subscription access only, but excerpted here).

There never has been an organization claiming to speak for New Atheism, so to claim that it evolved into something else is an exercise in putting words in other people's mouths.

The Atheism Plus movement (which is indeed defunct, at least its website is anyway) was founded by Jennifer McCreight and as far as I know was never endorsed by or involved any of the New Atheist characters. In fact it seems to have formed out of a sexual harassment accusation against Dawkins, which caused a Gamergate-like schism within the atheist community. So no, New Atheism never existed in the first place as an entity and if it had Atheism Plus is not where it would have gone.

You don't get to conjure up a movement then declare victory over it. I mean, I guess you can, but you might as well claim to have beaten the Forces of the Dark Lord.

Which I guess happens all the time, so whatever.
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Apr 16, 2020 - 3:15pm



 buddy wrote:


I'm sure he's looking down on you and smiling, Dave  ;)
 


 brutal

Ohmsen

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Posted: Apr 16, 2020 - 2:26pm


A hearty debate:

Ohmsen

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Posted: Apr 16, 2020 - 1:45pm



 Lazy8 wrote:
Ohmsen wrote:

What needs to "happen"? Did any of those mentioned renounce the cause? Hitchens up and died; if you expect him to speak from the grave you missed the point of his late work. Some of them have said what they needed to say and moved on, and to a large extent their arguments carried the day.

On 9/11/01 (which the article correctly points out as the spark that lit their fires) declaring yourself an atheist meant an end to your public participation in political debates in any meaningful sense; that's no longer true. There is now space in public discourse for people who don't believe in gods.

Here's another one:
How did it fail?



I don't see anything in the article to indicate failure
, unless your only metric is google search terms. The author includes a telling graph projecting current trends in religious affiliation—nothing but down. Religious affiliation has been declining for decades and that trend has only accelerated. If anything religion is failing. Or do you have some other definition of success?
 

Well, did you really read the article, and not only peer over it's graphs? 

It states the movement of New Atheism dissolved as such, first into Atheism-Plus, which is Atheism + Social Justice movements, and eventually dissolved further into a singular Social Justice movement. 

Also, I wasn't aiming at success of religionism, much less at that of any churchism here. 


buddy

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Location: Rocky Mountains
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 16, 2020 - 1:07pm



 Red_Dragon wrote:


 Lazy8 wrote:

What needs to "happen"? Did any of those mentioned renounce the cause? Hitchens up and died; if you expect him to speak from the grave you missed the point of his late work. Some of them have said what they needed to say and moved on, and to a large extent their arguments carried the day.

On 9/11/01 (which the article correctly points out as the spark that lit their fires) declaring yourself an atheist meant an end to your public participation in political debates in any meaningful sense; that's no longer true. There is now space in public discourse for people who don't believe in gods.

Here's another one:
How did it fail?



I don't see anything in the article to indicate failure, unless your only metric is google search terms. The author includes a telling graph projecting current trends in religious affiliation—nothing but down. Religious affiliation has been declining for decades and that trend has only accelerated. If anything religion is failing. Or do you have some other definition of success?
 



I regret not having discovered him until after his departure.
 

I'm sure he's looking down on you and smiling, Dave  ;)
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