Good point. Credentialism has been with us since the days of the guilds, right?
Letting go of old patterns and habits can definitely be difficult. There are various people sounding the alarm regarding credential inflation and pointing out that four year degrees/ advanced degrees aren't the bargain they used to be. So far I don't think middle class parents are convinced.
Maybe we need to convince people that we've reached a sort of singularity/tipping point with respect to our current version of capitalism. If trying all the old tricks that worked in the past fail to yield results now, if the middle class continues to shrink and wealth/wage gaps of various kinds continue to grow, maybe we can accept that some fundamental changes beyond the usual approach are in order.
Ah yes, capitalism. Real capitalism quit existing when the term too big to fail was introduced. Too big to fail is the antithesis of capitalism. In straight forward capitalism, nothing is too big to fail.
Its a brave new / old world. Earlier, I mentioned the unemployment rate for 4 year grads and yes you were correct as a lot of that had to do with the selection of majors. In today's employment climate, it is unreasonable to expect full gainful employment with a degree in philosophy or art for example. Yet there are many going into these areas. Why ? Is it poor counseling or wishful thinking on the part of the student ?
Someone needs to properly counsel on what majors will end up with good employment outcomes. These are not the times where the pursuit of personal indulgence ends up with gainful employment.
An old factoid ... Back in the 70's I once heard that over half of over the road truck drivers had majored in psychology.
I alluded to the shrinkage of the middle class previously below. Another aspect of this issue is that, however we define middle class these days, regardless of their numbers, they are not doing so hot financially.
This was posted on Huffpo today presumably in anticipation of the SOTU speech tonight:
I've often been bewildered by the whole "need a degree" stuff. I have a friend who had to get an associates degree to be a park ranger - basically plowing roads, participating in controlled fires, etc. Then there's my own spouse who flunked out of college twice but made the reason for his flunking (goofing around on the computers back in the early days) into a career. Pretty much EVERY job he's ever had required a degree, but his experience has trumped that. He wouldn't succeed in the same way today, I'm afraid. Us computing dinosaurs used to get a kick out of the CS majors coming into the industry. Book learning did NOT prepare them for the trench (fun) jobs.
agreed
life experience
on the job training/journeyman
peer instruction/training or self taught
competency versus credential-ism
fortunately your hubby's employers understood this
Sure, but the difference is you were after a degree/education. If we send the boy just because everyone should go to college, it's doomed to failure. If he finds himself wanting it, then cool.
I've often been bewildered by the whole "need a degree" stuff. I have a friend who had to get an associates degree to be a park ranger - basically plowing roads, participating in controlled fires, etc. Then there's my own spouse who flunked out of college twice but made the reason for his flunking (goofing around on the computers back in the early days) into a career. Pretty much EVERY job he's ever had required a degree, but his experience has trumped that. He wouldn't succeed in the same way today, I'm afraid. Us computing dinosaurs used to get a kick out of the CS majors coming into the industry. Book learning did NOT prepare them for the trench (fun) jobs.
Sure, but the difference is you were after a degree/education. If we send the boy just because everyone should go to college, it's doomed to failure. If he finds himself wanting it, then cool.
I know so many non-collegiate people who found their niche (some more than just one), threw their all into it, and absolutely thrived. That was MY plan at first. Then, four years after high school, I decided I wanted to teach the little ones and started a nine-year journey of part-time college with a full time job. Life and its curve balls.....
Being crap at book learning doesn't necessarily mean college is a bad thing. My brother and I both navigated it successfully using different strategies. He went to a large Uni and applied his genius to figuring out how to get by while using the minimal effort. (When he was in High School they had standardised exams but students with a good enough record through the year didn't have to take them. He decided it was much easier to read the text the night before the exam than to do all those assignments during the year).
I went to a small liberal arts school with small classes and lots of personal attention from the professors who managed to encourage/cajole/drag me through the program. Somehow they brought out the best in me.
Sure, but the difference is you were after a degree/education. If we send the boy just because everyone should go to college, it's doomed to failure. If he finds himself wanting it, then cool.
We're there. The girl will thrive in college (our biggest challenge will be steering her toward a useful major). The boy will not. He's sharp as a tack but has his dad's knack for book-learnin'. I certainly would have been better served to have a focused non-college plan. Well, after the 2-year AS that I got locally, anyway. We're assuming he's going to get that alternative plan.
Being crap at book learning doesn't necessarily mean college is a bad thing. My brother and I both navigated it successfully using different strategies. He went to a large Uni and applied his genius to figuring out how to get by while using the minimal effort. (When he was in High School they had standardised exams but students with a good enough record through the year didn't have to take them. He decided it was much easier to read the text the night before the exam than to do all those assignments during the year).
I went to a small liberal arts school with small classes and lots of personal attention from the professors who managed to encourage/cajole/drag me through the program. Somehow they brought out the best in me.
So far I don't think middle class parents are convinced.
We're there. The girl will thrive in college (our biggest challenge will be steering her toward a useful major). The boy will not. He's sharp as a tack but has his dad's knack for book-learnin'. I certainly would have been better served to have a focused non-college plan. Well, after the 2-year AS that I got locally, anyway. We're assuming he's going to get that alternative plan.
Well it's in the best interest of everyone who has a degree to make it stay that way. I know a guy who flunked out of college who's smarter than any of us, and worked his way up to fairly upper management in the oil industry... who considered transferring to a local business so he didn't have to travel. It would have been a huge step down in responsibility, pay, etc. but he put in for it anyway. Didn't even get a second look... because it's a small town, he heard back that the college was the problem... no one would hire him because if it didn't work out, their boss would have fired both of them.
Good point. Credentialism has been with us since the days of the guilds, right?
Letting go of old patterns and habits can definitely be difficult. There are various people sounding the alarm regarding credential inflation and pointing out that four year degrees/ advanced degrees aren't the bargain they used to be. So far I don't think middle class parents are convinced.
Maybe we need to convince people that we've reached a sort of singularity/tipping point with respect to our current version of capitalism. If trying all the old tricks that worked in the past fail to yield results now, if the middle class continues to shrink and wealth/wage gaps of various kinds continue to grow, maybe we can accept that some fundamental changes beyond the usual approach are in order.
How do we change the national dialog away from the current mantra of "four year degree or you'r going to fail as an adult"? If middle class parents start valuing vocational ed, the schools will probably reemerge to accept their dollars.
Well it's in the best interest of everyone who has a degree to make it stay that way. I know a guy who flunked out of college who's smarter than any of us, and worked his way up to fairly upper management in the oil industry... who considered transferring to a local business so he didn't have to travel. It would have been a huge step down in responsibility, pay, etc. but he put in for it anyway. Didn't even get a second look... because it's a small town, he heard back that the college was the problem... no one would hire him because if it didn't work out, their boss would have fired both of them.
I agree with Vo-Ed and Vo-Tech, but being employed in higher ed, and one of 9 legacy children to attend the same school, it's hard for me to encourage one of my sons to pursue a vocation, though I really think it might be his route.
Just because we can't envision ourselves in a particular life path or life style doesn't mean it might not be suited for anyone else, offspring included.
I heard the unemployment rate for college grads is around 7 percent. Maybe you mean half can't find a career in the field they studied in, and settle for a lower-wage job? That sounds more likely to me.
I did throw out a lot below, so we should probably stick to one issue at a time, and college is a good start, I suppose.
I mostly agree that college is not really appropriate for everyone, especially every graduating HS senior. I think bringing back Vo-Ed or Vo-tech training would be good as well. How do we change the national dialog away from the current mantra of "four year degree or you'r going to fail as an adult"? If middle class parents start valuing vocational ed, the schools will probably reemerge to accept their dollars.
I agree with Vo-Ed and Vo-Tech, but being employed in higher ed, and one of 9 legacy children to attend the same school, it's hard for me to encourage one of my sons to pursue a vocation, though I really think it might be his route.
