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Index » Regional/Local » Africa/Middle East » Iraq Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 135, 136, 137  Next
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R_P

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Posted: Jun 18, 2014 - 11:10am

 sirdroseph wrote:
That is pretty much how I see it along with Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey, Iran, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and just about anywhere else for that matter.  I predict much mess in all of these countries and there is not a darn thing we can do about it.   The only way that we can truly help if we can at all is to do nothing.  Doing nothing is so often forgotten as a legitimate option.
 
Aside from us civilized folks selling weapons to all sides of those conflicts, of course (jobs!)... {#Mrgreen}
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Posted: Jun 18, 2014 - 11:06am

 black321 wrote:
screw it, let them fight it out.  A civil war had been predicted for years (assuming Hussein was toppled)...politicians said it back in the 90s, most academics predicted it right after the invasion and now its happening.  Keeping troops there another 10, 20 years would have only resulted in more soldiers dying for what seems inevitable. 

 

That is pretty much how I see it along with Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey, Iran, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and just about anywhere else for that matter.  I predict much mess in all of these countries and there is not a darn thing we can do about it.   The only way that we can truly help if we can at all is to do nothing.  Doing nothing is so often forgotten as a legitimate option.
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jun 18, 2014 - 11:03am

 DaveInVA wrote: 
Here's an idea: let them have their caliphate and leave them the hell alone. These people hate us because we fuck with them.
black321

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Posted: Jun 18, 2014 - 11:00am

screw it, let them fight it out.  A civil war had been predicted for years (assuming Hussein was toppled)...politicians said it back in the 90s, most academics predicted it right after the invasion and now its happening.  Keeping troops there another 10, 20 years would have only resulted in more soldiers dying for what seems inevitable. 
DaveInVA

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Posted: Jun 18, 2014 - 10:46am

OP-ED: Let the Islamists Have Their Caliphate—Then Bomb Them

A desperate proposal for a desperate time


R_P

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Posted: Jun 17, 2014 - 9:06am

There is "absolutely" a link between the invasion of Iraq and the rise of terror group Isis, for which Tony Blair bears "total responsibility", says a leading academic who advised the then prime minister in the run-up to the war.

Speaking exclusively to The Huffington Post UK, Professor George Joffe of Cambridge University said Tony Blair had a "shallow mind" and had refused to heed his warnings of post-war chaos and sectarianism in Iraq.

In November 2002, Joffe was one of three Iraq experts invited into Downing Street to brief Blair on the potential fallout from an Anglo-American attack on Baghdad.

"We were not allowed to talk about whether or not it was a good idea to invade, but only about what the aftermath would be," he told HuffPost UK, adding: "It was clear that the decision had already been made.. to invade Iraq”.

Joffe says Blair wasn't interested in listening. In response to warnings from the Cambridge academic and the two other Iraq experts, Dr Toby Dodge and Dr Charles Tripp, that the country could descend into civil war and a Sunni-led insurgency, Blair merely responded, in reference to Saddam Hussein, "But the man's evil, isn't he?"

According to Joffe, Blair "personalised" the whole issue in the form of Hussein and thus "the whole structure of Iraq was utterly irrelevant.. It was very two-dimensional." (...)

Dick Cheney: My Thoughts and Prayers Are with the Iraqi Oil Wells : The New Yorker
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Posted: Jun 16, 2014 - 3:38pm

Media Lens - Blair: Bombing Iraq Better. Again

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Posted: Jun 14, 2014 - 5:29pm

The Fog Machine of War
The U.S. Military’s Campaign Against Media Freedom
By CHELSEA MANNING

Loss of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
katzendogs

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Posted: Jun 14, 2014 - 4:07pm

Its dead Jim.
R_P

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Posted: Jun 14, 2014 - 12:17pm

The Second Iran-Iraq War and the American Switch
By Juan Cole | Jun. 13, 2014 |
Iran has decided to intervene directly in Iraq and has already sent fighters to the front, according to the Wall Street Journal, based on Iranian sources. It is alleged that Iranian special forces have helped the Iraqi army push back in Tikrit, the birth place of Saddam Hussein that was overrun earlier this week by ISIS, which captured the city’s police force. These reports come on the heels of President Hassan Rouhani’s pledge on Thursday that Iran would not stand by and allow terrorists to take over Iraq. The hyper-Sunni Islamic State of Iraq and Syria fighters are closing in on a major Shiite shrine in Samarra and have pledge to take Baghdad, the capital, itself.

Iran has allegedly supplied small numbers of advisers and even hired Afghan fighters to the Syrian regime, and encouraged Lebanon’s Hizbullah to intervene in Syria to prevent the fall of Homs to Sunni extremists. These Iranian interventions in Syria did shore up the al-Assad regime and reverse rebel momentum. Iran’s Revolutionary Guards Corps may believe it can use the same tactics to roll back ISIS in Iraq. Iran is largely Shiite and has a Shiite religious ideology as the basis of the state. Iraq is 60% Shiite and the ruling government since 2005 has come from that community. Sunni Arabs in Iraq are probably only 17% or so, but had been the elite for most of Iraq’s medieval and modern history, until George W. Bush overthrew the predominantly Sunni Saddam Hussein regime and allowed the Shiites to come to power.

Iraqi Shiites predominate in Baghdad and parts south. Shiites are more like traditional Catholics in venerating members of the holy family and attending at their shrines. Contemporary Salafi Sunni Islam is more like the militant brand of Protestantism of the late 1500s that denounced intermediaries between God and the individual and actually attacked and destroyed shrines to saints and other holy figures, where pleas for intercession were made. The shrine in Samarra is associated with the 12th in the line of vicars of the Prophet Muhammad, called Imams in Shi’ism, Muhammad al-Mahdi, a direct descendant of the Prophet himself. Shiites have a special emphasis on a millenarian expectation that the Twelfth Imam will soon return to restore justice to the world (rather as Christians believe in the return of Christ). When the Samarra shrine was damaged by Sunni militants in 2006, it threw Iraq into civil war, in which 3000 civilians were being killed every month. Baghdad was ethnically cleansed by 2008 of most of its Sunnis, becoming a largely Shiite capital. ISIS wants to reverse that process. Baghdad was founded by the Abbasid caliphate, who claimed to be vicars of the Prophet, in 762 AD and is a symbol of the glories of early Islam. ISIS leaders are threatening also to destroy the shrine of Ali in Najaf and the shrine of Husain in Karbala (Najaf for Shiites is the equivalent of the Basilica of St. Peter for Catholics).

The specter of Iranian troops on Iraqi soil can only recall the first Iran-Iraq War.

From September of 1980, when Saddam Hussein’s Iraqi army invaded Iran’s oil-rich Khuzistan Province, until summer 1988 when Ayatollah Khomeini finally accepted an armistice, Iran and Iraq fought one of the Middle East’s longest and bloodiest wars. Its trench warfare and hidden naval encounters recalled the horrors of World War I, as did the Iraqi Baath government’s deployment of mustard gas against Iranian soldiers at the front and sarin gas against Kurdish civilians suspected of pro-Iranian sentiments.

The Reagan administration in the United States largely backed Iraq from 1983, when Reagan dispatched then Searle CEO Donald Rumsfeld to shake Saddam’s hand. This, despite Iraq being the clear aggressor and despite Reagan’s full knowledge of Iraqi use of chemical weapons, about which George Schultz at the State Department loudly complained until he was shushed. Then, having his marching orders straight, Schultz had the US ambassador to the UN deep-six any UN Security Council resolution condemning Iraq for the chemical weapons deployment. The US navy fought an behind the scenes war against Iranian ships in the Persian Gulf, becoming a de facto appendage of the Baath military.

Just because the Reagan administration was so Machiavellian, it also gave some minor support Iran in the war. Reagan stole anti-tank and anti-aircraft weaponry from the Pentagon storehouses and illegally sold them to Khomeini despite Iran being on the US terrorism watch list. He then had Iran pressure the Shiite militiamen in Lebanon to release American hostages. Reagan sent the money received from Iran to death squads in Nicaragua fighting the people’s revolution there against a brutal American-installed dictatorship. This money was sent to Nicaragua in defiance of the Boland Amendment passed by Congress forbidding US monies to go there. Ollie North, whom you see prevaricating on Fox News these days, was a bag man for the operation. (...)


'Baghdad Bob' and His Ridiculous, True Predictions - Atlantic
steeler

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Posted: Jun 14, 2014 - 9:47am

 mutepoint wrote:
Amid Iraq Crisis, Kerry Recites Poetry

America is in the best of hands!  The best, I tell ya!

smh 



 
What a hatchet job by Neil Munro.  Absolute drivel.

Assails Kerry for reciting Maya Angelou poetry at a global summit on curbing rape as part of warfare while war atrocities are being committed elsewhere, most particularly in Iraq.  Should he not have attended the summit?  Attended but not cited Maya Angelou?  What, exactly?

Note the third paragraph in this inflammatory lede about this being a "long-planned summit."

Jihadis are advancing on Baghdad, and yet the nation’s foreign policy chief today flew to London for the chance to recite a poem by Maya Angelou.

“Out of the huts of history’s shame / I rise / Up from a past that’s rooted in pain / I rise,” Secretary of State John Kerry intoned at the “Global Summit to End Sexual Violence in Conflict.”

Kerry’s poetic foray capped off his scheduled speech at the long-planned summit, where activists and diplomats met to push for new spending programs to curb rape in warfare.


This kind of "analysis" does nothing; it is solely for  political purposes, feeding red meat to those wed to the short view.


sirdroseph

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Posted: Jun 14, 2014 - 8:57am

 mutepoint wrote:

I'm implying no such thing.  

My sarc is specifically that the problem is far more complex than your statements/analysis suggest.  It's not about whether to interfere or not.  Consequences exist either way.  

Geo-politics is a very complicated thing.  Many decisions made by so-called world leaders are short-term in nature, to only address their own needs.  And the decisions made are frequently not the best if one is to take the long view.  And by long view, I'm not measuring that in four year increments around anyone's election/ re-election potential.

I selectively read - and dismiss a lot of tripe.  I choose to take the long view - multiple decades forward versus what need be done to boost a given leader's/political party's poll numbers prior to the next election.

The #Bush'sFault tag is my not very damn subtle kick in the ass to readers (and not necessarily the post author) who take the short term view.  Because: stupid/ignorant-ill-informed/ don't care etc.

 

Oh ok, I got it.  I agree.{#Cheers}
sirdroseph

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Posted: Jun 14, 2014 - 8:51am

 Red_Dragon wrote:
Hmmm... the agreement to withdraw US troops from Iraq in 2011 was signed by Dubya in 2008. hmmmmm

 

Not surpising.  Dubya, Obama whatever.  Same guys, different year.
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jun 14, 2014 - 8:46am

Hmmm... the agreement to withdraw US troops from Iraq in 2011 was signed by Dubya in 2008. hmmmmm
sirdroseph

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Posted: Jun 14, 2014 - 8:44am

 mutepoint wrote:

#Bush'sFault!

Of course. 

 

I know you weren't implying that I am blaming everything on Bush.  If so, you obviously selectively read only the post that even give the slightest implication that he did anything wrong at all.  If you were really paying full attention to all of the political converstations and my contributions to them you would realize that my beef is just as much with Obama and quite frankly virtually all US foreign policy over the past 50 plus years in regards to the middle east and other parts of the world as well.  It is you that seem to only see the world in left and right perspectives even when they obviously continue with the same policy, virtually unchanged, administration after administration regardless of the letter behind their name.
sirdroseph

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Posted: Jun 14, 2014 - 8:26am

This is what years of colonial imperialism, unwanted invasions and clandestine meddling while backing leaders who are hostile to their own population has wrought us in the Middle East.  We are now funding and assisting in one country, Syria and preparing to fight in another country, Iraq, the same people who have the ultimate and obvious goal of turning their aggression towards us wholly as soon as we help them with the Shia.{#Eek}

Watch: ISIS Leader In Iraq Makes Chilling Promise To America 
sirdroseph

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Posted: Jun 14, 2014 - 5:54am

 katzendogs wrote:
Its dead Jim.

 

{#Lol}
katzendogs

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Posted: Jun 13, 2014 - 7:26pm

Its dead Jim.
R_P

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Posted: Jun 13, 2014 - 7:08pm

(...) No. The most creative defense lawyer trying to defend these two occupations—these twin crimes against humanity—will be hard-pressed to do so, or even to defend them as ultimately vindicated by results. The results, it turns out are horrific.

These occupations, conducted in the name of the people of this country, are a national shame. But they were not the decision of the people, however the people may have been misled by warmongers’ disinformation. They resulted from decisions based on geopolitical calculations underlined by an amoral and brainless commitment to U.S. exceptionalism, including the right to slaughter without any international legal consequences.

The consequences are unfortunately not felt at the Hague, in the International Court of Justice that the U.S. refuses to join (on the straightforward grounds that U.S. forces must never be tried by foreigners, possibly falling victim to anti-American sentiment).

The consequences are rather felt in the innumerable ways rage and hatred express themselves, when the most arrogant and vicious attack the most weak and vulnerable. By inflicting such ongoing pain throughout the “Greater Middle East,” those secretly praying for another 9/11 seem hell-bent on provoking one, following their last gangbang in Libya and the abortion of the planned Syria assault last August based (once again) on lies. Their failures never deter them. They know they need never apologize. They are assured of employment as cable news “foreign policy experts,” fawning interviews and sometimes book sales.

These occupations have been failures, even if if judged by the occupiers’ expectations and plans. If judged by common global moral standards, they are world-class atrocities. That they should be followed by an al-Qaeda faction’s conquest of much of Iraq and Syria, and the prospect of a Taliban return to power in Afghanistan, is deeply troubling.

But hardly less so than the prospect of an ongoing U.S. berserker rampage designed to instill fear and obedience in a world less and less inclined to fear, respect or obey the exceptional nation, and the One Percent who drive its global aggression.


R_P

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Posted: Jun 13, 2014 - 6:10pm

Iraq Crisis: Created by Bush & Blair and Bankrolled by Saudi Arabia
Bush and Blair said Iraq was a war on Islamic fascism. They lost
by Robert Fisk


Young men in Baghdad chant slogans against Isis outside the main army recruiting centre yesterday, where they are volunteering to fight the extremist group. (Credit: Karin Kadim/AP)

So after the grotesquerie of the Taliban and Osama bin Laden and 15 of the 19 suicide killers of 9/11, meet Saudi Arabia’s latest monstrous contribution to world history: the Islamist Sunni caliphate of Iraq and the Levant, conquerors of Mosul and Tikrit – and Raqqa in Syria – and possibly Baghdad, and the ultimate humiliators of Bush and Obama.

From Aleppo in northern Syria almost to the Iraqi-Iranian border, the jihadists of Isis and sundry other groupuscules paid by the Saudi Wahhabis – and by Kuwaiti oligarchs – now rule thousands of square miles.

"Bush and Blair destroyed Saddam’s regime to make the world safe and declared that Iraq was part of a titanic battle against 'Islamofascism.' Well, they lost."

Apart from Saudi Arabia’s role in this catastrophe, what other stories are to be hidden from us in the coming days and weeks?

The story of Iraq and the story of Syria are the same – politically, militarily and journalistically: two leaders, one Shia, the other Alawite, fighting for the existence of their regimes against the power of a growing Sunni Muslim international army.

While the Americans support the wretched Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and his elected Shia government in Iraq, the same Americans still demand the overthrow of Bashar al-Assad of Syria and his regime, even though both leaders are now brothers-in-arms against the victors of Mosul and Tikrit.

The Croesus-like wealth of Qatar may soon be redirected away from the Muslim rebels of Syria and Iraq to the Assad regime, out of fear and deep hatred for its Sunni brothers in Saudi Arabia (which may invade Qatar if it becomes very angry).

We all know of the “deep concern” of Washington and London at the territorial victories of the Islamists – and the utter destruction of all that America and Britain bled and died for in Iraq. No one, however, will feel as much of this “deep concern” as Shia Iran and Assad of Syria and Maliki of Iraq, who must regard the news from Mosul and Tikrit as a political and military disaster. Just when Syrian military forces were winning the war for Assad, tens of thousands of Iraqi-based militants may now turn on the Damascus government, before or after they choose to advance on Baghdad.

No one will care now how many hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been slaughtered since 2003 because of the fantasies of Bush and Blair. These two men destroyed Saddam’s regime to make the world safe and declared that Iraq was part of a titanic battle against “Islamofascism.” Well, they lost. Remember that the Americans captured and recaptured Mosul to crush the power of Islamist fighters. They fought for Fallujah twice. And both cities have now been lost again to the Islamists. The armies of Bush and Blair have long gone home, declaring victory.

Under Obama, Saudi Arabia will continue to be treated as a friendly “moderate” in the Arab world, even though its royal family is founded upon the Wahhabist convictions of the Sunni Islamists in Syria and Iraq – and even though millions of its dollars are arming those same fighters. Thus does Saudi power both feed the monster in the deserts of Syria and Iraq and cosy up to the Western powers that protect it.

We should also remember that Maliki’s military attempts to retake Mosul are likely to be ferocious and bloody, just as Assad’s battles to retake cities have proved to be. The refugees fleeing Mosul are more frightened of Shia government revenge than they are of the Sunni jihadists who have captured their city.

We will all be told to regard the new armed “caliphate” as a “terror nation.” Abu Mohamed al-Adnani, the Isis spokesman, is intelligent, warning against arrogance, talking of an advance on Baghdad when he may be thinking of Damascus. Isis is largely leaving the civilians of Mosul unharmed.

Finally, we will be invited to regard the future as a sectarian war when it will be a war between Muslim sectarians and Muslim non-sectarians. The “terror” bit will be provided by the arms we send to all sides.


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