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kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 1:13pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

nope. you're forgetting all those frictional losses aka bovine burping and farting.. which will be avoided by going vegetarian/vegan..

it is waaaay more efficient for us to eat the crops directly (well ok, not grass, but you get my drift).
 
So what about the CO² emissions from humans ?

The average human exhales about 2.3 pounds of carbon dioxide on an average day. ... Take this number and multiply by a population of 7 billion people, breathing away for 365.25 days per year, and you get an annual CO2 output of 2.94 billion tons.

Time to reduce the human population, too ?

Ohmsen

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Location: Over the rainbow
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Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 1:11pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
huh?  Kurtster brought up the vegan thing, not me. FWIW I am not vegetarian but my wife is.

You brought up the cows' blurp...

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 1:08pm

 Ohmsen wrote:
 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
you're forgetting all those frictional losses aka bovine burping and farting.. which will be avoided by going vegetarian/vegan..

it is waaaay more efficient for us to eat the crops directly (well ok, not grass, but you get my drift).

You seem to be blowing one smokescreen after another.

 
huh?  Kurtster brought up the vegan thing, not me. FWIW I am not vegetarian but my wife is.
Ohmsen

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Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 1:06pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
you're forgetting all those frictional losses aka bovine burping and farting.. which will be avoided by going vegetarian/vegan..

it is waaaay more efficient for us to eat the crops directly (well ok, not grass, but you get my drift).

You seem to be blowing one smokescreen after another.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 12:59pm

 Ohmsen wrote:
 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

and btw.. it is not just energy consumption in all those sectors


Industrial farming is another (great) malefactor, while 80-90% of farmers worldwide still do it with their bare hands
 
my beef with industrial farming is primarily the loss of biodiversity and topsoil depletion, but yes, it also has a carbon footprint.. 
R_P

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Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 12:57pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
nope. you're forgetting all those frictional losses aka bovine burping and farting.. which will be avoided by going vegetarian/vegan..

it is waaaay more efficient for us to eat the crops directly (well ok, not grass, but you get my drift).

Oh noes, The Deep State is coming for your hamburgers/steaks!

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 12:54pm

 kurtster wrote:

Well, if we go vegan, then we have to make energy efficiency improvements for the expansion required in other parts of agriculture in order to replace the offenders, energy efficiently.
.
Right ?
 
nope. you're forgetting all those frictional losses aka bovine burping and farting.. which will be avoided by going vegetarian/vegan..

it is waaaay more efficient for us to eat the crops directly (well ok, not grass, but you get my drift).
Ohmsen

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Location: Over the rainbow
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 12:27pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

and btw.. it is not just energy consumption in all those sectors


Industrial farming is another (great) malefactor, while 80-90% of farmers worldwide still do it with their bare hands
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 12:26pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
and btw.. it is not just energy consumption in all those sectors
 
Well, if we go vegan, then we have to make energy efficiency improvements for the expansion required in other parts of agriculture in order to replace the offenders, energy efficiently.
.
Right ?
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 12:22pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

who says that?  
 
You seemed to imply that with your expression of urgency and impatience.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 12:21pm

and btw.. it is not just energy consumption in all those sectors
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 12:20pm

 kurtster wrote:

Not only what you said, but regarding the bolded above in NoEnz's thought, flattening the energy curve applies to all of the sectors above in the chart.  It is in the natural best interest to improve energy efficiency in all of them.  To think that no one is trying is just bizarre at any informed level.
 
who says that?  
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
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Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 11:59am

 Ohmsen wrote:
 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:


energy production and transport are just part of the problem. 
"flattening the demand curve" as you put has to extend to all other sectors as well OR we find new technologies to allow demand to stay high but simultaneously become more sustainable, or, even better, we do both at once for the fastest possible response.
 


Constant growth as paradigm is a malefactor, esp. in economics.

 
Not only what you said, but regarding the bolded above in NoEnz's thought, flattening the energy curve applies to all of the sectors above in the chart.  It is in the natural best interest to improve energy efficiency in all of them.  To think that no one is trying is just bizarre at any informed level.
Ohmsen

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Location: Over the rainbow
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Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 11:53am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:


energy production and transport are just part of the problem. 
"flattening the demand curve" as you put has to extend to all other sectors as well OR we find new technologies to allow demand to stay high but simultaneously become more sustainable, or, even better, we do both at once for the fastest possible response.
 


Constant growth as paradigm is a malefactor, esp. in economics.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 11:47am



energy production and transport are just part of the problem. 
"flattening the demand curve" as you put has to extend to all other sectors as well OR we find new technologies to allow demand to stay high but simultaneously become more sustainable, or, even better, we do both at once for the fastest possible response.
 
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 11:41am

 kurtster wrote:

Yes, but no.  The best and fastest solution, imho, is to flatten and then reduce the energy demand curve, while we work on electrical energy generation advances.

There is a natural incentive to do this as energy is a huge part of the cost of production, let alone just living.  This natural incentive does not need political or ideological intervention, hence the opposition or diversion from this type of approach.  It is just simple economics.

And then we have to also work on electrical energy transmission problems, so that it does not start wildfires such as in NorCal, for example.
 
I've got no real idea of what you are actually trying to say here.. that climate activists should just shut up because it is all going to fix itself because of natural incentives?
Like this kind of natural incentive?



it's just natural economics. 
kurtster

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Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 11:04am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

yep, but not changing consumption patterns in the hope that there will be some kind of technology fix is also kind of irresponsible, don't you think?  It's going to take both a change in consumption and investment in new technology. Only when we have the new technology can you think about upping your consumption (if you even need to). 
 
 
Yes, but no.  The best and fastest solution, imho, is to flatten and then reduce the energy demand curve, while we work on electrical energy generation advances.

There is a natural incentive to do this as energy is a huge part of the cost of production, let alone just living.  This natural incentive does not need political or ideological intervention, hence the opposition or diversion from this type of approach.  It is just simple economics.

And then we have to also work on electrical energy transmission problems, so that it does not start wildfires such as in NorCal, for example.
Ohmsen

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Location: Over the rainbow
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 11:01am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
yep, but not changing consumption patterns in the hope that there will be some kind of technology fix is also kind of irresponsible, don't you think?  It's going to take both a change in consumption and investment in new technology. Only when we have the new technology can you think about upping your consumption (if you even need to).   

Less is more for one and all. - Something, not only the wise ones kept teaching, but Corona (meaning 'crown') seems to be teaching us, as well. 

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 10:57am

 kurtster wrote:
Just to make a point about technology and energy consumption.

The LED light is one such development that is groundbreaking in the kind of advancement I have been talking about.

It uses a fraction of the energy of incandescent and fluorescent lights (which are hazardous waste).  They also generate next to nothing in heat, requiring no air conditioning (more energy) to offset the heat.  The total energy usage savings of this one development has probably done more than anything else to reduce the greenhouse gases by reducing the need for energy versus direct intervention at the energy producing source.

These advances will come.  Someone is always trying to build a better mousetrap. 
 
yep, but not changing consumption patterns in the hope that there will be some kind of technology fix is also kind of irresponsible, don't you think?  It's going to take both a change in consumption and investment in new technology. Only when we have the new technology can you think about upping your consumption (if you even need to). 
 
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 9, 2021 - 10:47am

Just to make a point about technology and energy consumption.

The LED light is one such development that is groundbreaking in the kind of advancement I have been talking about.

It uses a fraction of the energy of incandescent and fluorescent lights (which are hazardous waste).  They also generate next to nothing in heat, requiring no air conditioning (more energy) to offset the heat.  The total energy usage savings of this one development has probably done more than anything else to reduce the greenhouse gases by reducing the need for energy versus direct intervention at the energy producing source.

These advances will come.  Someone is always trying to build a better mousetrap. 
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