oldslabsides wrote: 
In part I agree...but this is well trodden ground for us so I'll leave it at that.

 callum wrote: 
*my Upper Palaeolithic hunter/gatherer/anarchist ideals aside for a moment*

If we're going to have government and social manipulation and nanny states, then I am with Robert Heinlein and believe that there should be a strata to that society: those who chose to complete a term of service and thereby earn the privileges of "full" citizenship, and those who chose not to.

The term of service need not be strictly military, but could include pretty much anything the nanny state seeks to accomplish; infrastructure construction/maintenance, social work, etc.  Those completing the term would be able to "own" property, vote, etc.  Those who chose not to cannot "own" property, vote, etc.

I honestly believe that the sheer number of us has created societal problems that didn't exist a few thousand years ago when the entire population of the planet could comfortably reside in say, Rhode Island.

*goes off to shower. ew*

 oldslabsides wrote: 
Pzacly.  I think its the responsibility of my generation to bring back the logic and sense of duty back into public life.  In WWI millions of men my age volunteered out of duty*.  People had a sense of what was right; I wish we could see that again.  With a sense of belonging to a community and of having rights must come a sense of duty to protect and help those who need it.  We have to stand by each other if we want to keep those rights and freedoms we are so fortunate to have.  That doesn't mean joining the army for 3 years before you are 25 (unless you want to), but it means everyone pulling their weight and helping their community out - whether it be helping tidy the local park or visiting the elderly or whatever.  If everyone helped out the world would be a much better place.

edit:  this links into logic (IMO) thus:
People should also have a duty to read and research large issues that they want to have an opinion.  If you are concerned with climate change then take the time to find out something about it.  Don't let other people tell you what you should believe and sway you with emotionally driven arguments.  Additionally a better educated population will have better educated discussions rather than simplifying everything down...
*yes, gross oversimplification and yes there was conscription and yes it was terrible since most of them died, but the fact remains - many people volunteered to fight because they saw it as a duty 

 callum wrote: 
Truly.

Yes, we could use a bit of Vulcan.  Emotions are wonderful things for personal relationships, appreciating art, music, food etc.  Unfortunately, they have no place in decisions regarding purely mathmatical subjects.  Subjects like, say, finance, engineering and the preservation of the only place in the universe we know of that can support our existence.

 hobiejoe wrote: 
Indeed.  But logical solutions always seem to be at a disadvantage.  Sometimes I wish we were just a little bit more Vulcan.

 dionysius wrote: 
Too late.

 jadewahoo wrote: 
oooh — Schlabby and Jade for Prez and VP!

 hobiejoe wrote: 

'Night! And for the irony-challenged? Screw 'em! The Culture Wars will be overtaken by Reality Wars soon enough, alas.

 dionysius wrote: 

'Tis true 'nuff, but the deniers are very keen to cast the argument in those terms - to avoid the science and to blame the need to cut emissions on freedom-hating tree-huggers and green lefties, or lefty greenies or whatever. That these weirdo communist "world scientific community" commies are conspiring to take away your freedoms, even though a pretty sybaritic American Lifestyle™ could easily be maintained without frying the planet if only fossil fuels were taken/priced out of the market.
 
Hmmmph. Sounds like a new front is being opened in the Culture Wars.
 
And I've also gotten too serious......
  
"Time for bed" said Florence...
 
"Boinnnnggg" said Zebadee.

 
 
   

 maryte wrote: 

 dionysius wrote: 

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote: 
Why are you channeling my wife?

 dionysius wrote: 
Whadda you mean "us" white man?

hoping you all get reference to obscure joke

 dionysius wrote: 
No need to get nasty now.

 hobiejoe wrote: 
Gracious, he's sounds just like one of us tree-hugging Green lefties now, doesn't he?

 oldslabsides wrote: 

There it is, beautifully put, plain and simple.
 

 lowelltr wrote: 

No.  The greater the population grows, the greater the supply problem becomes.  Simple math, not-so-simple solutions.

 Lazy8 wrote: 

All true comments - IF there is a "water problem", it's one humans have always had, and is one not of supply, but of distribution.......

 jadewahoo wrote: 
  Watch out US !!

 oldslabsides wrote:We could set up big magnifying lenses in space and zap all the ignorant asshats with the focused rays of the sun.