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Index » Internet/Computer » Streaming/Media » Reccomended System or Powered Speakers Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
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Milo

Milo Avatar

Location: Vancouver, BC
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 13, 2009 - 11:18am

 mzpro5 wrote:

Outlaw 990/7700 - pre/pro amp combo

I agree about matching components.  This is what I am currently using in my setup and it took a while to get the components that sound good in the entire system.

 
I note that your pre and power amps together cost about.....$3,000, thus proving my point. If you spend the money there is some great stuff out there, but anything you find at Best Buy (including many brands that used to be good) isn't worth having. And I'd still put my $55 Marantz up against it knowing that at the very least it would be comparable.

mzpro5

mzpro5 Avatar

Location: Budda'spet, Hungry
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 13, 2009 - 11:07am

 Milo wrote:

If you're listening to mp3s you'll hardly notice any difference between your modern whatsit and something old and nice, but with CDs, records, DVDs you sure should. And always consider the magic of component matching. I have lots and lots of gear and all of it sounds great...when combined with the right other gear. I am not a fan of my H/K CD player with the Marantz reciever, but it sounds good with the H/K reciever and great with my Pioneer integrated. My Marantz HD770 speakers only really work well with the Pioneer, with everything else they sound like they have a whole in the mid-range (and they do really, the Pioneer just turns them into this great rock system).
 
Outlaw 990/7700 - pre/pro amp combo
Behringer A500 - 2nd zone amp
SVS 20-39 PC +, SVS MTS-01 towers, SVS MCS-01 center, SVS MBS-01 surrounds - 5.1 speakers
Samsung PN58B650, DirecTV HR-20 700 - TV and tuner
Sony CDP-545, Phillips CDR 765, Oppo BDP-83, Panasonic DMR E515, Technics SL-DL5, Squeezebox 3, - media sources
Remote MX-850 - Universal remote

I agree about matching components.  This is what I am currently using in my setup and it took a while to get the components that sound good in the entire system.

Milo

Milo Avatar

Location: Vancouver, BC
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 13, 2009 - 10:46am

 mzpro5 wrote:

Do you really believe this?  There is a load of equipment well under 4 figures that will provide stellar performance. Have you sonically compared equipment from the '70s with equipment from today?  You would spend probably two thirds the price of a new receiver to fix the old one....IF...you could find someone that knows how to do component level repair. Most repairs today are done only to board level....problem on a board, that's as far as you go, replace the whole board.  Not sure that would work with a '70s era receiver if the parts are available.  You can get more performance for less money in a modern receiver.

Though they may not be "elite" equipment you can get more performance for less money in a number of moderately priced receivers.

The attitude that it is better just because it is older is silly.

Of course this is just my opinion as a serious A/V fan for over 40 years that would not trade my current setup for my 1974 receiver for all the money in the world.
 
Yes.

There is of course old crap and new crap, new good stuff and old good stuff, but as a general rule bang for your buck with the old stuff is much better. Just for starters, modern power supplies are feeble. I have done many back to back comparisons, including between my HK730 (40 watts RMS a side) and my Marantz 2245 (45 watts RMS a side) against the receiver they replaced, an Onkyo model from the 90s (100 watts RMS a side). The Onkyo didn't have a chance, both in terms of warmth and quality of sound and overall power. When I bought it I thought it was a great amp, as soon as I bought the Harman/Kardon it was obvious just how much it was lacking.

There is a chicken and the egg type situation with modern music recordings and modern music reproducing electronics. In both cases they tend to sound cold and as though the loudness button is depressed at all times. I suspect the records are EQed to work with the sound systems, though it is possible that it is the other way round. I listen primarily to older music, acoustic music, jazz, etc, both of which sound amazing on both of my systems. Modern rock, sounds great too. At times in the past, though not currently, I've had a system (also vintage, but different brands) set up that sounds fantastic with modern rock recordings. Older recordings, acoustic music, jazz, etc sound like crap on it because its got a sharper, harder, bassier and treblier sound.

If you're listening to mp3s you'll hardly notice any difference between your modern whatsit and something old and nice, but with CDs, records, DVDs you sure should. And always consider the magic of component matching. I have lots and lots of gear and all of it sounds great...when combined with the right other gear. I am not a fan of my H/K CD player with the Marantz reciever, but it sounds good with the H/K reciever and great with my Pioneer integrated. My Marantz HD770 speakers only really work well with the Pioneer, with everything else they sound like they have a whole in the mid-range (and they do really, the Pioneer just turns them into this great rock system).

I spent $30 on the Marantz 2245 and $25 in parts to fix it up. Nothing you can find at the store for under $500 has a chance and you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands, because I will never ever give it up. But you're welcome to come and listen to it anytime.

mzpro5

mzpro5 Avatar

Location: Budda'spet, Hungry
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 13, 2009 - 10:10am

 mjmurphy61 wrote:
Good news.

Problem solved. I just opened up the top, grabbed some compressed air and contact cleaner from my gig bag, blew away about 30 years of dust, cleaned all the contacts, and now I'm listening in ridiculously great stereo sound again! The thing is blasting RP as I write this.

Since I never had a problem before, the amp was 30 years old and in storage for a year, I just figured it was probably toast.... and time for a new one when I "lost" the right channel. Anyway, thanks to all who posted on this. I learned a bunch and saved some serious dough too!

Now for those speakers...

Lets rock!

 
Good to hear!  Glad you got it working.

mjmurphy61

mjmurphy61 Avatar

Location: Saint Louis, MO
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 13, 2009 - 10:07am

 cc_rider wrote:

Outstanding! Some of that dust was prolly shorting across something. Glad to hear all is well!
 
Yup, kind of embarrased that I posted the problem BEFORE I opened it up and looked under the hood, but actually I was inspired to dig into it when I read some of these posts. It's a great piece of gear, and I can't say any of of my other electronics has lasted that long (except a couple guitars.)

cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 13, 2009 - 9:58am

 mjmurphy61 wrote:
Good news.

Problem solved. I just opened up the top, grabbed some compressed air and contact cleaner from my gig bag, blew away about 30 years of dust, cleaned all the contacts, and now I'm listening in ridiculously great stereo sound again! The thing is blasting RP as I write this.

Since I never had a problem before, the amp was 30 years old and in storage for a year, I just figured it was probably toast.... and time for a new one when I "lost" the right channel. Anyway, thanks to all who posted on this. I learned a bunch and saved some serious dough too!

Now for those speakers...

Lets rock!

 
Outstanding! Some of that dust was prolly shorting across something. Glad to hear all is well!

mjmurphy61

mjmurphy61 Avatar

Location: Saint Louis, MO
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 13, 2009 - 9:42am

Good news.

Problem solved. I just opened up the top, grabbed some compressed air and contact cleaner from my gig bag, blew away about 30 years of dust, cleaned all the contacts, and now I'm listening in ridiculously great stereo sound again! The thing is blasting RP as I write this.

Since I never had a problem before, the amp was 30 years old and in storage for a year, I just figured it was probably toast.... and time for a new one when I "lost" the right channel. Anyway, thanks to all who posted on this. I learned a bunch and saved some serious dough too!

Now for those speakers...

Lets rock!
cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 13, 2009 - 8:18am

 mzpro5 wrote:

Do you really believe this?  There is a load of equipment well under 4 figures that will provide stellar performance. Have you sonically compared equipment from the '70s with equipment from today?  You would spend probably two thirds the price of a new receiver to fix the old one....IF...you could find someone that knows how to do component level repair. Most repairs today are done only to board level....problem on a board, that's as far as you go, replace the whole board.  Not sure that would work with a '70s era receiver if the parts are available.  You can get more performance for less money in a modern receiver.

Though they may not be "elite" equipment you can get more performance for less money in a number of moderately priced receivers.

The attitude that it is better just because it is older is silly.

Of course this is just my opinion as a serious A/V fan for over 40 years that would not trade my current setup for my 1974 receiver for all the money in the world.
 
These days, most repairs can ONLY be done to board level. The 'circuit boards' in the old gear appear to be one small step up(?) from point-to-point wiring, so replacing components on them is not quite so difficult as trying to extract an IC from a SMT PCB. Which is why the small appliance repairman has pretty much gone the way of the cobbler and the tinker.

mzpro5

mzpro5 Avatar

Location: Budda'spet, Hungry
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 13, 2009 - 6:33am

 Milo wrote:

{#Lol} Unless your budget has four digits or you really must have a remote control, you're not going to buy better equipment than they made in the 70s. Unless you're shopping for a CD player, in which case the best ones are from the early to mid nineties.

And you're not feeding the throwaway society we have become, which is just as important.
 
Do you really believe this?  There is a load of equipment well under 4 figures that will provide stellar performance. Have you sonically compared equipment from the '70s with equipment from today?  You would spend probably two thirds the price of a new receiver to fix the old one....IF...you could find someone that knows how to do component level repair. Most repairs today are done only to board level....problem on a board, that's as far as you go, replace the whole board.  Not sure that would work with a '70s era receiver if the parts are available.  You can get more performance for less money in a modern receiver.

Though they may not be "elite" equipment you can get more performance for less money in a number of moderately priced receivers.

The attitude that it is better just because it is older is silly.

Of course this is just my opinion as a serious A/V fan for over 40 years that would not trade my current setup for my 1974 receiver for all the money in the world.

vaiodon

vaiodon Avatar

Location: Halfway to Paradise
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2009 - 1:53pm

 mjmurphy61 wrote:
Yay, my trusy Harmon Kardon HK380i tuner/receiver/amplifier circa 1979 just lost it's right channel. I was using it in my living room streaming to an Apple Airport Express, so RP is currently playing though one speaker. Got a good 30 years out of that sucker!

Now I get to go audio shopping. Oh yeah. Wait a minute, I'm broke! Well not totally, can anybody reccomend an inexpensive powered speaker system. I've been kind of looking around lately and so much is surround sound stuff that I'm just not into. I just want something in the 1 to 2 hundred dollar range that will do the job. I'm using a pair of Edirol powered speakers in my bedroom that sound great, but I'm not sure I wan't two pair of those, besides those are more studio monitors (near field) than I would like for the living room.

Anybody using anything that they love?

 
I use Airport Expresses to receive iTunes or Airfoil fed audio streams around my house, I have one inputting to the main hifi system (Quad amp & Linn speakers, my Quad 33 and 405 are about the same vintage as your HK380i and the Indexes aren't much younger) plus another two APX inputting to Sonic Impact T-Amps with Q-Associates 1010i speakers. For about £200 the Airport Express + T-Amp + 1010i combination is fantastic.

The Sonic Impact T-Amps seemed to get very positive reviews and given the price, about $65, they are great but I can't see any for sale any more.

I've been looking for an alternate simple and inexpensive 2 ch amp to replace a pair of powered desk speakers and turned up the Audiosource AMP-100. Again it gets good reviews and fulfils the 'simple' requirement with only a volume and balance control. Try to google for the AMP-100, it should fall within your price limits.

(former member)

(former member) Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2009 - 1:53pm

 Milo wrote:

Is that the recommended spelling?
 
See, double consonants in each word.
Milo

Milo Avatar

Location: Vancouver, BC
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2009 - 1:52pm

 dmax wrote:

Thhe correct spelling: Recommended

Just seems right somehow, doesn't it? 

 
Is that the recommended spelling?

(former member)

(former member) Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2009 - 1:47pm

 hippiechick wrote:
The correct spelling: Recommended
 
Thhe correct spelling: Recommended

Just seems right somehow, doesn't it? 
hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Oct 12, 2009 - 1:29pm

The correct spelling: Recommended
Milo

Milo Avatar

Location: Vancouver, BC
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2009 - 1:15pm

 mjmurphy61 wrote:

Okay you guys are guilting me out. I've had this thing since high school and so of course I really do love it. I'm taking it down to the local repair shop and gettin' me another 30 years worth of awesome music! Man, good thing I wasn't looking for help on putting my dog down!
 
{#Lol} Unless your budget has four digits or you really must have a remote control, you're not going to buy better equipment than they made in the 70s. Unless you're shopping for a CD player, in which case the best ones are from the early to mid nineties.

And you're not feeding the throwaway society we have become, which is just as important.

mjmurphy61

mjmurphy61 Avatar

Location: Saint Louis, MO
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2009 - 1:09pm

 Beaker wrote:

In spite of the damage wrought unto the consumer electronics service industry by the advent of low-priced throw away technology, there still remain several shops with the knowledge and skills at hand.  If our owner of the HK unit valued this particular amp for its characteristics, the cost of repair would likely outweigh the attraction of its modern replacement.  But our RPeep seems more inclined to replacing it.  So be it.  The consumer always dictates the supply of goods and the availability of the necessary skills to repair same.

Sorry about your loss of the Mission amp.  I have an old HK Citation Twelve Deluxe main amp sitting here with one dead channel.  I'll get to it one day - one of these years. 
 
Okay you guys are guilting me out. I've had this thing since high school and so of course I really do love it. I'm taking it down to the local repair shop and gettin' me another 30 years worth of awesome music! Man, good thing I wasn't looking for help on putting my dog down!

Milo

Milo Avatar

Location: Vancouver, BC
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2009 - 12:52pm

 cc_rider wrote:

Absolutely agree. However, the likelihood of finding a tech to fix most ANYTHING these days is pretty remote. It's far more likely murph is faced with replacing it than having it repaired. Heck, the repair cost would almost certainly be far more than buying a comparable new unit: probably $75 just to open the case, IF he can find someone willing to even look at it.

 
I know of at least three places/people locally that would happily repair this reciever. Go to http://www.audiokarma.org and ask around, there is guaranteed to be somebody who will help you fix it yourself over the internet or that can recommend somebody in your area to do it.

 Beaker wrote:

Correctly sized and rated electrolytics as spec'd in the original device will most likely outlive the usefulness of the device.  If your head is all bent out of shape over the motherboard bad cap controversy, all you need know is that at its root were several cap manufacturers who put out sub-standard product.  Replacing the defective electrolytic cap with an identical valued electrolytic cap from a quality maker corrects the problem.  Except of course for a certain Toshiba DVD player of mine, one of many thousands, where indeed, the original designers were idiots and upping the replacement cap's voltage spec was necessary...

 

 cc_rider wrote:

Oh, the only reason I even ask is because I use film-and-foil caps for building speaker crossovers, that's all. In that world, electrolytics are considered inferior, but your experience says that's not the case in active devices. Since I'm not a EE or tech, I didn't know if there's anything to be gained by using the more exotic caps. Plus, some crossover designs employ a little bitty film cap on top of a larger electrolytic, to provide the required capacitance and still get the fast response of a film cap. It's fairly common in speakers, I was just wondering if the technique is ever used in amps as well.

 
I was under the understanding that the life span of many of the electrolytics in electronics of the past had a useful lifespan of about 25 years before they start losing performance due to drying up. Lots of people replace the electrolytics in their vintage stuff with more modern capacitors. But of course I am not an electronics technician and have never performed this modification on any of my many vintage pieces.

cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2009 - 12:47pm

 Beaker wrote:

Why ever would you want to?  To what purpose? 

Correctly sized and rated electrolytics as spec'd in the original device will most likely outlive the usefulness of the device.  If your head is all bent out of shape over the motherboard bad cap controversy, all you need know is that at its root were several cap manufacturers who put out sub-standard product.  Replacing the defective electrolytic cap with an identical valued electrolytic cap from a quality maker corrects the problem.  Except of course for a certain Toshiba DVD player of mine, one of many thousands, where indeed, the original designers were idiots and upping the replacement cap's voltage spec was necessary...

edit:  And polarity?  pbbt.  That's just one suggested way to install it - from an obviously biased party - the manufacturer...
 
Oh, the only reason I even ask is because I use film-and-foil caps for building speaker crossovers, that's all. In that world, electrolytics are considered inferior, but your experience says that's not the case in active devices. Since I'm not a EE or tech, I didn't know if there's anything to be gained by using the more exotic caps. Plus, some crossover designs employ a little bitty film cap on top of a larger electrolytic, to provide the required capacitance and still get the fast response of a film cap. It's fairly common in speakers, I was just wondering if the technique is ever used in amps as well.

cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2009 - 12:35pm

 Beaker wrote:

Not many techs find it either fun or efficient to work on something that an amateur tech has already had his hand in.  Incorrect substitutions, under or over-valued components, solder bridges where no solder bridge is supposed to be, busted traces, etc etc.  "You want an estimate?  I estimate that it will cost more to fix it now than if you brought it to us in the first place."

/former life as a service manager/tech

 
Absolutely agree. However, the likelihood of finding a tech to fix most ANYTHING these days is pretty remote. It's far more likely murph is faced with replacing it than having it repaired. Heck, the repair cost would almost certainly be far more than buying a comparable new unit: probably $75 just to open the case, IF he can find someone willing to even look at it.

With schematic in hand, and a little judicious cleaning/testing, he might be able to fix it. If not, well, he was already shopping for a new one anyway. Damn disposable society, but that's the way it is.

I used to have a massive MISSION amplifier a buddy gave me: it had some obvious hot spots and other issues, but nothing very easily repaired. I took it to a specialist in older gear, he had the dang thing for a couple years: neither of us was ever was able to track down a schematic for it. I finally took it back from the tech guy and tore it down for parts. Saved the transistors, big caps, and a couple of HUGE toroidal coils. Plus some cool heatsinks and whatnot. Not sure if I'll ever use any of them, but I couldn't bear to throw them away either. Oh well, maybe they'll come in handy if the Sansuis ever need anything. At this rate that seems unlikely.

BasmntMadman

BasmntMadman Avatar

Location: Off-White Gardens


Posted: Oct 12, 2009 - 12:12pm

 cc_rider wrote:

Wuss. You probably read the instructions before assembling stuff, don't you? And take maps for long trips? No guts.

Just kiddin' ya Beaks. That's awesome you were able to find the schematic, free no less. I had to buy the ones for my Sansuis, but since some poor devil took the time to scan them and everything, I didn't mind. Prolly saved me from blowing something up, too.

Just wondering, since we've mentioned caps and polarity, I might as well ask someone who will know: can you replace polarized electrolytics with film-and-foil caps? Obviously the size and lead configuration could be an issue, but is there any electrical reason?


 
ESR -equivalent series resistance - is one possible factor.

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