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kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 6:13pm

 romeotuma wrote:

Kurtster, I am relieved to see that you do not find FOX News to be a credible source...

 

 
{#Whipit}

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 5:27pm

 islander wrote:

They may be saying that, but it is no more true than your claim of the republicans lack of responsibility for matters of late.  How about we all as a populace demand better from our elected leaders?  Let's stop with the blame them not us mentality and hold ALL of their feet to the fire and force them to work out a real compromise that will address the problems at hand.

 
I hear you, but and I have to say but on at least this much, The Repubs were allowed absolutely no input on any legislation that passed through Congress since Obama's election until the lame duck session after the vote in November.  No admendments to bills, no meetings with the White House, except for the one famous meeting where Obama actually told the repubs, I won, what you have to say will not be considered.

All the Repubs had was the fillibuster in the Senate and if it weren't for that they would have been totally irrelevant.  They were not allowed to do anything in the House whatsoever.

Had the Repubs been allowed some input on legislation, they would have been held just as responsible and we would not have had the House turnover in 2010. 

Right now, the bigger issue is in the States, Wisconsin, Indiana and soon Ohio, with Democrats fleeing their duties and responsibilities in order to delay the inevitable, going on record and voting on matters put before them.  Doing what they were duly elected and paid to do.  Show up and vote.

Attention will turn again to the House in Spring when the Repubs present their version of a Budget for Fiscal year 2012.  They will do (or better do) what Obama has promised but been afraid to do, tackle the big issues.  Obama is making them propose the cuts in entitlements and will make them out to be the heavy by saying they are gonna make Grandma eat cat food and go to the Veternarian for their medicine.  The Republicans are still screwed.  The public will blame the Repubs and vote Dem in 2012.  All the Repubs are gonna have is these two years.

And when the economy finally goes tits up because of the turmoil in the Middle East and energy prices rising to the point where our economy finally collapses, history will declare that the collapse was entirely the fault of the Repubs, just as history is blaming this greatest economic mess since the Great Depression on the Reublicans and especially Bush. 

Anyone talking about Dodd and Frank and Obama and their legislation and coercion regarding Fannie and Freddie ?  No.  Its all about Bush and going back to Graham and his undoing of Glass Stiegel even though a Democrat, Clinton had to sign the Bill.  No credible sources blame the Democrats for anything.

I must say that I started out this current run talking about the issues at the state level and this quickly got turned around to how the Republicans were to blame for everything.  That alone speaks for itself, eh ?



Yibbyl

Yibbyl Avatar

Location: Gaäd only knows
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 5:19pm

 hippiechick wrote:
The governor refuses to discuss or compromise.

The Republicans are threatening to shut down the Federal government.
 
Good!  They can speed up the process by resigning ASAP!  Since the Dems are already quitting, that would be a clean sweep of all the idiots!  Finally, the common citizen of the US triumphs over special interests!  {#Dancingbanana_2}

Free at last!  Thank the FSM we're free at last!

islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 5:00pm

 kurtster wrote:
 
The Democrats have absolved themselves of everything that happened buring Bush's 8 years.  Bush has been blamed for everything.  That is fact.  Just ask Pelosi, Reid and Obama.  That's all I have heard for the past two years, Blame Bush, and nothing but.

The Democrats have accepted no responsibility for anything for the past 10 years.  Heck, the Dems were even instructed to avoid mentioning the Healthcare Bill during the 2010 election by the D leadership.
 
They may be saying that, but it is no more true than your claim of the republicans lack of responsibility for matters of late.  How about we all as a populace demand better from our elected leaders?  Let's stop with the blame them not us mentality and hold ALL of their feet to the fire and force them to work out a real compromise that will address the problems at hand.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 4:57pm

 hippiechick wrote:

Don't turn this around on me, it's not about me. I get tired of the double standard around here.
 
You asked, I answered. 
hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 4:46pm

 kurtster wrote:
 
The Democrats have absolved themselves of everything that happened buring Bush's 8 years.  Bush has been blamed for everything.  That is fact.  Just ask Pelosi, Reid and Obama.  That's all I have heard for the past two years, Blame Bush, and nothing but.

The Democrats have accepted no responsibility for anything for the past 10 years.  Heck, the Dems were even instructed to avoid mentioning the Healthcare Bill during the 2010 election by the D leadership.
 
That's because Bush deserves the blame! He put us into a war with lies, and this is now a fact, Jack, like it or not. How many billions and lives went to fighting the war in Iraq?

hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 4:44pm

 islander wrote:

He may have been a bit blunt with you, but I think it was short of insulting. I'd bet it's a matter of style. If you prefer the reaction I get maybe you should try what I do: take a deep breath before responding and re-read before submitting. 

 
Don't turn this around on me, it's not about me. I get tired of the double standard around here.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 4:44pm

 islander wrote:

That's as much crap as saying that the dems can be absolved of everything for the preceding 8 years.  The republicans don't have their fingerprints on anything because they refused to touch anything:


 

  
The Democrats have absolved themselves of everything that happened buring Bush's 8 years.  Bush has been blamed for everything.  That is fact.  Just ask Pelosi, Reid and Obama.  That's all I have heard for the past two years, Blame Bush, and nothing but.

The Democrats have accepted no responsibility for anything for the past 10 years.  Heck, the Dems were even instructed to avoid mentioning the Healthcare Bill during the 2010 election by the D leadership.

islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 4:38pm

 hippiechick wrote:

They did a good job of f**king it up before then. How in the world did our budget get so out of whack to begin with, after Clinton had balanced it. Hmmm? I remember when the Repubs would have midnight meetings and lock the Dems out of the room.

How come you respectfully disagree with him, but insult me? Hmmmm...
 
He may have been a bit blunt with you, but I think it was short of insulting. I'd bet it's a matter of style. If you prefer the reaction I get maybe you should try what I do: take a deep breath before responding and re-read before submitting. 
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 4:33pm

 kurtster wrote:


I will respectfully disagree with you.  The Repubs haven't had their fingerprints on anything coming out of Washington from January 20th, 2009 through December 2010.  The Repubs were shut out of everything, even to the extent of changing the locks on doors in the Capitol Building by the Democrats.

The Democrats had a Super Majority until Brown of Massachusetts was elected.  Other than a couple of nominations, what did the Republicans block in Congress during this peiod ?  Nothing that I can think of.

After two years of a Democrat Super Majority, the Democrats own everything. 

 
That's as much crap as saying that the dems can be absolved of everything for the preceding 8 years.  The republicans don't have their fingerprints on anything because they refused to touch anything:


 
hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 4:30pm

 kurtster wrote:


I will respectfully disagree with you.  The Repubs haven't had their fingerprints on anything coming out of Washington from January 20th, 2009 through December 2010.  The Repubs were shut out of everything, even to the extent of changing the locks on doors in the Capitol Building by the Democrats.

The Democrats had a Super Majority until Brown of Massachusetts was elected.  Other than a couple of nominations, what did the Republicans block in Congress during this peiod ?  Nothing that I can think of.

After two years of a Democrat Super Majority, the Democrats own everything. 

 
They did a good job of f**king it up before then. How in the world did our budget get so out of whack to begin with, after Clinton had balanced it. Hmmm? I remember when the Repubs would have midnight meetings and lock the Dems out of the room.

How come you respectfully disagree with him, but insult me? Hmmmm...

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 4:24pm

 islander wrote:

Again, both parties are solidly culpable in the current state of affairs where very little is brought forward. Both parties have lost understanding of the word compromise. But the republicans were the initial instigators in the block everything and refuse to do anything that wasn't on their agenda party in recent history. 

 

I will respectfully disagree with you.  The Repubs haven't had their fingerprints on anything coming out of Washington from January 20th, 2009 through December 2010.  The Repubs were shut out of everything, even to the extent of changing the locks on doors in the Capitol Building by the Democrats.

The Democrats had a Super Majority until Brown of Massachusetts was elected.  Other than a couple of nominations, what did the Republicans block in Congress during this peiod ?  Nothing that I can think of.

After two years of a Democrat Super Majority, the Democrats own everything. 


islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 4:00pm

 kurtster wrote:


The Budget was never even brought up for a vote, that is the responsibility of Reid and Pelosi.  How can one vote on something that isn't even brought up for a vote ?

This is the new Democrat style, avoid voting and going on the record.
 
Again, both parties are solidly culpable in the current state of affairs where very little is brought forward. Both parties have lost understanding of the word compromise. But the republicans were the initial instigators in the block everything and refuse to do anything that wasn't on their agenda party in recent history. 
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 3:59pm

 islander wrote:

He was hardly the first to express the sentiment. But it has never made a good position from which to govern - especially so when the electorate is so evenly split and a considerable portion of all voters are choosing the lesser of two evils.  I think it is all of our jobs to call out and not support this behavior from either side, especially your own.

 
You are correct.  Its a poor way to lead.

I would not have made the remark "We Won" to anyone else in a discussion of these issues.  It was directed to someone who thinks exclusively in these terms.
cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 3:59pm

 kurtster wrote:


The Budget was never even brought up for a vote, that is the responsibility of Reid and Pelosi.  How can one vote on something that isn't even brought up for a vote ?

This is the new Democrat style, avoid voting and going on the record.

  Um, WHY was it never brought up for a vote? Because Senators filibustered every other dang thing, or threatened to, which effectively shut down the proceedings. The Republican strategy was (is) delay, delay, DELAY. And it's not about that crook Tom this time. They pushed out important business, betting (rightly) the new batch of crooks would have more success.

They ALL engage in dirty tricks. Every single one. To say the Dems are 'not doing their job' is horseshit. Their job is to fight for their constituents, with whatever means are available, whether it's filibustering or denying a quorum. You don't like it, I don't like it, but that's the way the game is played.


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 3:50pm

 cc_rider wrote:

So, U.S. Senate Republicans who filibustered irrelevant bills, while the budget issue loomed, WERE doing their jobs?

Wisconsin's State Senators apparently do not have the option of filibuster. They used the only method available to block action on a bill they abhor. Republicans in the U.S. Senate have used the filibuster to block action on bills they abhor.

Kettle, meet Pot.
 

The Budget was never even brought up for a vote, that is the responsibility of Reid and Pelosi.  How can one vote on something that isn't even brought up for a vote ?

This is the new Democrat style, avoid voting and going on the record.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 3:50pm

 kurtster wrote:
 hippiechick wrote:

In case you aren't aware, this is about union busting and screwing the teachers. It's become the "style" now to blame all of the educations system's woes on the teachers' unions (See Chris Christie. )

The Republican's budget is full of vendetta, like denying $$ to Planned Parenthood and NPR, and it doesn't deserve to get passed.

Well if the results of the Teachers' skills is only 34% of Wisconsin's 8th graders reading at the 8th grade level, with some of the highest costs per pupil in the Mid West, then they deserve to get their union busted for protecting these teaching poseurs.

The Republicans have proposed no budget.  The only budgets being discussed are Democrat ones. 

I know you rarely deal with facts, as you are not dealing with facts now.

As Obama once said, We Won, get over it !   

How does it feel to be on the other side of that ?


 
He was hardly the first to express the sentiment. But it has never made a good position from which to govern - especially so when the electorate is so evenly split and a considerable portion of all voters are choosing the lesser of two evils.  I think it is all of our jobs to call out and not support this behavior from either side, especially your own.
hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 3:49pm

 kurtster wrote:
 hippiechick wrote:

In case you aren't aware, this is about union busting and screwing the teachers. It's become the "style" now to blame all of the educations system's woes on the teachers' unions (See Chris Christie. )

The Republican's budget is full of vendetta, like denying $$ to Planned Parenthood and NPR, and it doesn't deserve to get passed.


Well if the results of the Teachers' skills is only 34% of Wisconsin's 8th graders reading at the 8th grade level, with some of the highest costs per pupil in the Mid West, then they deserve to get their union busted for protecting these teaching poseurs.

The Republicans have proposed no budget.  The only budgets being discussed are Democrat ones. 

I know you rarely deal with facts, as you are not dealing with facts now.

As Obama once said, We Won, get over it !   

How does it feel to be on the other side of that ?


 
Oh snap, I guess you got me Kurt. You must be much smarter than me, so I see no point in trying to convince you otherwise.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 3:46pm

 hippiechick wrote:

In case you aren't aware, this is about union busting and screwing the teachers. It's become the "style" now to blame all of the educations system's woes on the teachers' unions (See Chris Christie. )

The Republican's budget is full of vendetta, like denying $$ to Planned Parenthood and NPR, and it doesn't deserve to get passed.


Well if the results of the Teachers' skills is only 34% of Wisconsin's 8th graders reading at the 8th grade level, with some of the highest costs per pupil in the Mid West, then they deserve to get their union busted for protecting these teaching poseurs.

The Republicans have proposed no budget.  The only budgets being discussed are Democrat ones. 

I know you rarely deal with facts, as you are not dealing with facts now.

As Obama once said, We Won, get over it !   

How does it feel to be on the other side of that ?



cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 3:37pm

 kurtster wrote:

The Governor is doing what he promised to do if elected.  No surprise, except for maybe a politician keeping campaign promises for a change ?

It will be the Democrats in the Senate who will shut down the Federal government by refsing to vote on the House's Budget proposal.  Now if the Democrats had passed a Budget last year like they were supposed to, this would not even be a possibilty.

The Democrats are responsible because they failed to do the job they were elected to do in the first place.
 
So, U.S. Senate Republicans who filibustered irrelevant bills, while the budget issue loomed, WERE doing their jobs?

Wisconsin's State Senators apparently do not have the option of filibuster. They used the only method available to block action on a bill they abhor. Republicans in the U.S. Senate have used the filibuster to block action on bills they abhor.

Kettle, meet Pot.

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