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Rock Movies/Documentaries - ScottFromWyoming - Oct 24, 2020 - 10:07pm
 
Baseball, anyone? - ScottFromWyoming - Oct 24, 2020 - 10:04pm
 
RPeeps I miss. - KurtfromLaQuinta - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:51pm
 
The Obituary Page - kurtster - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:39pm
 
Supreme Court: Who's Next? - Red_Dragon - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:13pm
 
2020 Elections - kurtster - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:12pm
 
COVID-19 - R_P - Oct 24, 2020 - 8:39pm
 
Favorite Quotes - ScottN - Oct 24, 2020 - 7:05pm
 
RightWingNutZ - R_P - Oct 24, 2020 - 5:01pm
 
Trump Lies - R_P - Oct 24, 2020 - 4:45pm
 
The Dragons' Roost - Red_Dragon - Oct 24, 2020 - 3:53pm
 
Strips, cartoons, illustrations - R_P - Oct 24, 2020 - 1:25pm
 
Trump - Red_Dragon - Oct 24, 2020 - 1:04pm
 
Great guitar faces - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 11:01am
 
Questions. - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 10:58am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 10:25am
 
More reggae, less Marley please - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 10:22am
 
What The Hell Buddy? - oldviolin - Oct 24, 2020 - 10:17am
 
Lyrics That Remind You of Someone - oldviolin - Oct 24, 2020 - 10:10am
 
Dialing 1-800-Manbird - oldviolin - Oct 24, 2020 - 10:09am
 
Things that piss me off - miamizsun - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:59am
 
Music Videos - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:50am
 
Ambient Music - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:41am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - miamizsun - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:35am
 
Live Music - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:11am
 
The 1960s - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:03am
 
The war on funk is over! - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 8:57am
 
Play the Blues - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 8:56am
 
HALF A WORLD - oldviolin - Oct 24, 2020 - 8:43am
 
The Dragon's Roots - oldviolin - Oct 24, 2020 - 8:38am
 
• • • BRING OUT YOUR DEAD • • •  - oldviolin - Oct 24, 2020 - 8:26am
 
Prog Rockers Anonymous - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 7:40am
 
Today in History - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 6:46am
 
Democratic Party - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 6:12am
 
Republican Party - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 6:03am
 
Anti-War - Ohmsen - Oct 23, 2020 - 11:39pm
 
Make Scott laugh - kcar - Oct 23, 2020 - 11:31pm
 
Counting with Pictures - ScottN - Oct 23, 2020 - 9:33pm
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - jarro - Oct 23, 2020 - 3:20pm
 
Among Us - R_P - Oct 23, 2020 - 3:06pm
 
China - miamizsun - Oct 23, 2020 - 11:27am
 
Health Care Stories - hayduke2 - Oct 23, 2020 - 9:55am
 
Economix - R_P - Oct 23, 2020 - 9:33am
 
Philosophy (Meaty Metaphysical Munchables!) - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Oct 23, 2020 - 9:00am
 
Mixtape Culture Club - ColdMiser - Oct 23, 2020 - 7:09am
 
Derplahoma Questions and Points of Interest - sunybuny - Oct 23, 2020 - 5:26am
 
Thanks for putting "Favorites" Channel back - chriswep - Oct 23, 2020 - 5:24am
 
260,000 Posts in one thread? - buddy - Oct 22, 2020 - 6:39pm
 
Radio Paradise NFL Pick'em Group - Manbird - Oct 22, 2020 - 4:55pm
 
Race in America - R_P - Oct 22, 2020 - 3:42pm
 
Joni Mitchell categorization error - pmrt - Oct 22, 2020 - 11:57am
 
Name My Band - Jester - Oct 22, 2020 - 10:52am
 
Cryptic Posts - Leave Them Guessing - oldviolin - Oct 22, 2020 - 8:40am
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - Oct 21, 2020 - 9:59pm
 
Things You Thought Today - jlf778 - Oct 21, 2020 - 5:19pm
 
Radio Paradise is awesome! - jlf778 - Oct 21, 2020 - 5:16pm
 
NASA & other news from space - oldviolin - Oct 21, 2020 - 4:17pm
 
New Music - scrinz - Oct 21, 2020 - 1:01pm
 
You might be getting old if...... - Ohmsen - Oct 21, 2020 - 9:05am
 
Rhetorical questions - oldviolin - Oct 21, 2020 - 8:37am
 
Working from home - rhahl - Oct 21, 2020 - 7:01am
 
How's the weather? - miamizsun - Oct 21, 2020 - 5:05am
 
how do you feel right now? - kurtster - Oct 20, 2020 - 7:43pm
 
audiophile - kurtster - Oct 20, 2020 - 7:27pm
 
Bolivia - R_P - Oct 20, 2020 - 4:09pm
 
Looting & vandalism isn't protest - KarmaKarma - Oct 20, 2020 - 2:29pm
 
Freedom of speech? - miamizsun - Oct 20, 2020 - 2:18pm
 
Strange signs, marquees, billboards, etc. - KurtfromLaQuinta - Oct 20, 2020 - 1:04pm
 
Environment - Red_Dragon - Oct 20, 2020 - 1:03pm
 
Health Care - R_P - Oct 20, 2020 - 8:41am
 
Android app playing same playlist - bevgerry - Oct 20, 2020 - 5:42am
 
kurtster's quiet vinyl - kurtster - Oct 19, 2020 - 9:36pm
 
Quick! I need a chicken... - R_P - Oct 19, 2020 - 4:46pm
 
I have no idea what this thread was about, but let's talk... - miamizsun - Oct 19, 2020 - 9:35am
 
Art Show - Coaxial - Oct 19, 2020 - 5:33am
 
Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » Breaking News Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 677, 678, 679  Next
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oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 19, 2020 - 1:35pm



 haresfur wrote:


 

 

Wankel much?
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 19, 2020 - 1:30pm



 Proclivities wrote:
 
$2 bills are still "current" denominations - I believe you can get them from most banks if you want to.  Last I heard, was that if you ever visit Jefferson's Monticello estate they use them as change there.  I was told that a lot of businesses in Charlottesville, around the UVA campus, used to as well - but I don't know if they still do.  One problem is most vendors don't like them because there is not a compartment in cash drawers for them.  The plan was apparently to eliminate the $1 bill (as the UK had eliminated the Â£1 note) and replace it with a coin, but as Scott pointed out - that has yet to happen.  Then the other problem was that the new $1 coins were too similar to quarters in size and couldn't be quickly differentiated - especially by people with visual impairments.  I don't know why they just didn't make the $1 coins larger like old 50 cent pieces (maybe too much metal?) or make them something other than circular.  A lot of other countries have had hexagonal and octagonal, or even dodecagonal (12-sided) coins, or ones with a hole in the center (Danish 1 krone).

 
Actually, it is cooler than that. They usually make them with an odd number of sides then make the sides bulge outwards a little. That way they have a constant width and don't get hung up in vending machines



haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 19, 2020 - 1:22pm



 Proclivities wrote:


 kcar wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:


i'll bet a dollar
 

The last three times I bought postage stamps from a vending machine in a post office, the damned thing spewed Susan B. Anthony dollars in change. I don't they or the Sacagawea dollar coins ever caught on with anyone, anywhere, anytime.

I miss the Jefferson two-dollar bill, though. Much like you'd miss a five-legged dog.
 

$2 bills are still "current" denominations - I believe you can get them from most banks if you want to.  Last I heard, was that if you ever visit Jefferson's Monticello estate they use them as change there.  I was told that a lot of businesses in Charlottesville, around the UVA campus, used to as well - but I don't know if they still do.  One problem is most vendors don't like them because there is not a compartment in cash drawers for them.  The plan was apparently to eliminate the $1 bill (as the UK had eliminated the Â£1 note) and replace it with a coin, but as Scott pointed out - that has yet to happen.  Then the other problem was that the new $1 coins were too similar to quarters in size and couldn't be quickly differentiated - especially by people with visual impairments.  I don't know why they just didn't make the $1 coins larger like old 50 cent pieces (maybe too much metal?) or make them something other than circular.  A lot of other countries have had hexagonal and octagonal, or even dodecagonal (12-sided) coins, or ones with a hole in the center (Danish 1 krone).

 

Just go straight to toonies

Don't make Australia's mistake of having the two dollar coin smaller than the one? What's up with that? Made worse by New Zealand doing it the other way around.

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 19, 2020 - 9:13am



 islander wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 kcar wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:


i'll bet a dollar
 

The last three times I bought postage stamps from a vending machine in a post office, the damned thing spewed Susan B. Anthony dollars in change. I don't they or the Sacagawea dollar coins ever caught on with anyone, anywhere, anytime.

I miss the Jefferson two-dollar bill, though. Much like you'd miss a five-legged dog.
 
If we switched to the dollar coin we'd save 400 million a year in printing costs. And since there's a generation's worth of dollar coins already minted, we could save even more. Yes, even though banks don't even have the dollar coins, the law saying to mint them is still in effect, so they're being produced and stored away. The law to stop dollar bill production never got passed. America! 

 

pennies.... sheesh. Also nickels while we are at it.
 

Yeah the cost to manufacture pennies is 2x their value and going up, nickels are kind of a wash based on the spot price of the metal; who was it who bought like 20 million in nickels because the value of the metal had risen to 6¢. Off to the smelter!

But the cost of accounting has to be factored in too. She got paid whether she did it or not, but for years our now-retired office manager would count all the pennies in the till, every day. We don't use pennies. Maybe we have a cash transaction involving pennies once a month. So, we need 4 pennies in the till. She kept over 50¢ there because she didn't want to have to break a new roll while the customer was waiting. Or some dumb shit like that. The tiny cost of paying people to count pennies every day in every transaction forever has to add up to some ridiculous number.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 19, 2020 - 7:11am



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 kcar wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:


i'll bet a dollar
 

The last three times I bought postage stamps from a vending machine in a post office, the damned thing spewed Susan B. Anthony dollars in change. I don't they or the Sacagawea dollar coins ever caught on with anyone, anywhere, anytime.

I miss the Jefferson two-dollar bill, though. Much like you'd miss a five-legged dog.
 
If we switched to the dollar coin we'd save 400 million a year in printing costs. And since there's a generation's worth of dollar coins already minted, we could save even more. Yes, even though banks don't even have the dollar coins, the law saying to mint them is still in effect, so they're being produced and stored away. The law to stop dollar bill production never got passed. America! 

 

pennies.... sheesh. Also nickels while we are at it.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 19, 2020 - 7:10am



 Proclivities wrote:


 kcar wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:


i'll bet a dollar
 

The last three times I bought postage stamps from a vending machine in a post office, the damned thing spewed Susan B. Anthony dollars in change. I don't they or the Sacagawea dollar coins ever caught on with anyone, anywhere, anytime.

I miss the Jefferson two-dollar bill, though. Much like you'd miss a five-legged dog.
 

$2 bills are still "current" denominations - I believe you can get them from most banks if you want to.  Last I heard, was that if you ever visit Jefferson's Monticello estate they use them as change there.  I was told that a lot of businesses in Charlottesville, around the UVA campus, used to as well - but I don't know if they still do.  One problem is most vendors don't like them because there is not a compartment in cash drawers for them.  The plan was apparently to eliminate the $1 bill (as the UK had eliminated the Â£1 note) and replace it with a coin, but as Scott pointed out - that has yet to happen.  Then the other problem was that the new $1 coins were too similar to quarters in size and couldn't be quickly differentiated - especially by people with visual impairments.  I don't know why they just didn't make the $1 coins larger like old 50 cent pieces (maybe too much metal?) or make them something other than circular.  A lot of other countries have hexagonal and octagonal coins or ones with a hole in the center.

 

One of my favorite Steve Woz stories is about how he bought uncut sheets of 2 dollar bills. Then  had them bound into a book with a perforated edge so he could tear them out one at a time. I think he was in Vegas when it got too much attention and got the feds involved.
Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 19, 2020 - 6:53am



 kcar wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:


i'll bet a dollar
 

The last three times I bought postage stamps from a vending machine in a post office, the damned thing spewed Susan B. Anthony dollars in change. I don't they or the Sacagawea dollar coins ever caught on with anyone, anywhere, anytime.

I miss the Jefferson two-dollar bill, though. Much like you'd miss a five-legged dog.
 

$2 bills are still "current" denominations - I believe you can get them from most banks if you want to.  Last I heard, was that if you ever visit Jefferson's Monticello estate they use them as change there.  I was told that a lot of businesses in Charlottesville, around the UVA campus, used to as well - but I don't know if they still do.  One problem is most vendors don't like them because there is not a compartment in cash drawers for them.  The plan was apparently to eliminate the $1 bill (as the UK had eliminated the Â£1 note) and replace it with a coin, but as Scott pointed out - that has yet to happen.  Then the other problem was that the new $1 coins were too similar to quarters in size and couldn't be quickly differentiated - especially by people with visual impairments.  I don't know why they just didn't make the $1 coins larger like old 50 cent pieces (maybe too much metal?) or make them something other than circular.  A lot of other countries have had hexagonal and octagonal, or even dodecagonal (12-sided) coins, or ones with a hole in the center (Danish 1 krone).

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Aug 19, 2020 - 6:32am



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

If we switched to the dollar coin we'd save 400 million a year in printing costs. And since there's a generation's worth of dollar coins already minted, we could save even more. Yes, even though banks don't even have the dollar coins, the law saying to mint them is still in effect, so they're being produced and stored away. The law to stop dollar bill production never got passed. America! 

 
I almost never have cash on me anymore.

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 19, 2020 - 6:21am



 kcar wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:


i'll bet a dollar
 

The last three times I bought postage stamps from a vending machine in a post office, the damned thing spewed Susan B. Anthony dollars in change. I don't they or the Sacagawea dollar coins ever caught on with anyone, anywhere, anytime.

I miss the Jefferson two-dollar bill, though. Much like you'd miss a five-legged dog.
 
If we switched to the dollar coin we'd save 400 million a year in printing costs. And since there's a generation's worth of dollar coins already minted, we could save even more. Yes, even though banks don't even have the dollar coins, the law saying to mint them is still in effect, so they're being produced and stored away. The law to stop dollar bill production never got passed. America! 

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Aug 18, 2020 - 8:50pm



 miamizsun wrote:


i'll bet a dollar
 

The last three times I bought postage stamps from a vending machine in a post office, the damned thing spewed Susan B. Anthony dollars in change. I don't they or the Sacagawea dollar coins ever caught on with anyone, anywhere, anytime.

I miss the Jefferson two-dollar bill, though. Much like you'd miss a five-legged dog.
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 18, 2020 - 9:09am

 cc_rider wrote:
President Trump pardoned Susan B. Anthony today, 18 August 2020. Whew, I bet she's really relieved.
c.
 

i'll bet a dollar
cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 18, 2020 - 8:13am

President Trump pardoned Susan B. Anthony today, 18 August 2020. Whew, I bet she's really relieved.
c.
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Aug 15, 2020 - 12:19am



 Lazy8 wrote:

I did respond to your post of several months ago, but I'll admit that rejecting your premise that crises require massive government intervention wasn't the response you were looking for. It is an honest one, however.
 


So you think that the Libertarian candidate Jo Jorgenson's policy proposals make sense. Again, my concern with the Libertarian party is that it has no realistic solutions for  major crises that I believe demand massive government intervention.

These troubled times, set during a presidential election year, should act as a litmus test for Jorgenson and the LP. You want to be taken seriously as a presidential candidate? Come up with solutions to the crises we're facing NOW.

But Jorgenson does not. To me, she sounds wholly unprepared to tackle our three biggest problems.


1. To fight the pandemic, Jorgenson said in the NPR interview that we should let people decide for themselves about whether to ignore travel restrictions, social distancing, the wearing of masks, etc.

Do you seriously think that's worked out for the US since states started lifting quarantine restrictions? Because we've failed badly at containing the coronavirus by relying on the decisions and actions of individuals. How would you track and contain the coronavirus or develop, test, mass-manufacture and deploy a vaccine without government intervention? 


2. At the time of the NPR interview, when there were 40 million people unemployed and the economy was beginning to collapse, Jorgenson criticized the government programs providing unemployment benefits, stimulus relief etc. and proposed instead reliance on individuals' donations to private charities.

Does that sound even remotely realistic or effective to you? Can you propose a means of keeping the economy and individuals afloat TODAY without massive government intervention? 


3. To fight global warming, Jorgenson says that as president she'd support construction of nuclear power reactors and "allowing off-grid use of solar power."

As an engineer, do you think that approach—which sadly would require the government intervention that you reject—is going to be enough? We both know it's not.

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 11:48pm



 Lazy8 wrote:
Apologies for the long absence, in case  anybody still cares about this topic. Turns out I have both a life and a job., and neither leaves me a lot of time to argue on the internet.

 kcar wrote:
"(a massive wad of verbiage)"


What a shame it was too, too long for you to read. That verbiage proved you wrong six ways to Sunday.

Ooh, hope that was therapeutic for you!

"My objection to the NYAG's action is this: it is a transparent attempt to take a political rival out of the public conversation. The harm done to the organization by its leadership will not be corrected by destroying the organization. The crocodile tears being shed for the organizations members and donors are a cynical and dishonest cover for the action."


Prove it.
My "verbiage" proved that you were and are wrong, however.

Your very long posts did an admirable job of recapitulating the pretext for the NYAG's action. It did not, however, address my point. And no, I didn't read every word of every link repeating the accusations (which I accept as true) of self-dealing within the NRA. This is not in contention. You don't need to post another phonebook's worth on it, or the entirety of the Bhagavad Gita, or Isaac Asimov's commentary on the bible because it's not relevant to my objection to the NYAG's action.

I could repeat it (and the evidence I posted for it) (again) but that's already gotten tedious. If anybody is still reading and wants this addressed, scroll down.

..."the New York political establishment's hostility toward NRA is well-documented."

Provide pointers to such documentation. Maybe you can, maybe you can't. But when you post such words without backing it up, you remind me of the family friend/angry drunk who never could back up his "everybody knows" claims (e.g. that blacks can't read, that Jews run secret controlling organizations, etc. And this guy was a high-level executive in Scott Paper Company).

Seriously? You actually need help with this? Do they not have MSNBC on the planet you've been hanging out on for the last decade?

The antipathy from Laetitia James isn't exactly a secret.
...and a word from Governor Cuomo.
It'll be interesting to see what they dig up
, but probably not a surprise.

That's just from the last two years. Want me to keep going?

Unfortunately, you have a really bad habit of assuming that government institutions are wholly captured by politics, personal and institutional animus, etc. You use this one-size-fits-all take to frame your opinion on just about every relevant news issue.

If you've warmed up your reading and thinking habits, you could also try responding to my months-ago post, asking you how a Libertarian Party would respond to crises requiring massive government intervention. You might remember that I referred you to Libertarian candidate Jo Jorgenson's NPR interview. I found her suggested policies for containing the pandemic and propping out the US economy quite lacking but you can pick up her lines of thought by reading the interview and expanding on them.

As for  Jo's approach to fighting global warming, she wants to push nuclear power plants...and that's pretty much it. But as I wrote before, the Libertarian Party seems so shackled to its promotion of limited government that it would be HELPLESS during the crises we have now.

I do hope all this wasn't too long for you to read. Really, when you use this "tl;dr" dodge I mostly feel pity for you. 

As I mentioned earlier, yes it was too long to read, and you've picked a really poor example to accuse me of "assuming that government institutions are wholly captured by politics, personal and institutional animus, etc." Much as I enjoy political discussions that are (ahem) all about me I'll leave judging that characterization of my thinking as an exercise to the reader. Feel free to sift thru every post I've ever written here if it means that much to you.

I did respond to your post of several months ago, but I'll admit that rejecting your premise that crises require massive government intervention wasn't the response you were looking for. It is an honest one, however.
 

This is the heart of contention between us: 


"My objection to the NYAG's action is this: it is a transparent attempt to take a political rival out of the public conversation."


As a legal matter: 

The NY AG's investigation found a decades-long pattern of corruption, illegal personal enrichment, law-breaking and willful allowance of such behavior throughout the organization beyond the four executives named. The NY AG determined that this pattern was so pervasive and embedded that it called for the dissolution of the NRA. That decision is within the law and her legal powers.


1. The evidence found by the NY AG's investigation on its own could merit dissolution of the NRA. That would be true regardless of any hostile OR friendly statements made by James et al.

2. While James, Cuomo, etc. have made hostile statements about the NRA, you STILL haven't shown that personal animus or political leanings caused, directed or warped gathering of evidence and interpretation of existing law. You have not shown that the investigation was tainted or illegitimate or unfair.

3. YOU first contended that the NY AG's action is a transparent attempt to take a political rival out of the public conversation." You have the obligation to support your contention.

You have not.



As a practical matter: 

The NY AG's decision does not deprive NRA members of their First Amendment rights. Such members can express their opinions through other established pro-gun non-profits. Also the NRA, if dissolved in New York, can re-establish itself in other states—eg Texas as Trump suggested in a tweet.
The NRA has the means to fight the NY AG's decision in the courts and simultaneously lobby for Trump's re-election. The NY AG's case will likely not gain serious traction in the courts by November 3. The NY AG's decision will likely boost donations to and political support for the NRA, especially in the time before November 3. 

So the NY AG's decision, if it were only "a transparent attempt to take a political rival out of the public conversation" , wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.



Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 10:38pm

https://www.theatlantic.com/id...Apologies for the long absence, in case  anybody still cares about this topic. Turns out I have both a life and a job., and neither leaves me a lot of time to argue on the internet.

 kcar wrote:
"(a massive wad of verbiage)"


What a shame it was too, too long for you to read. That verbiage proved you wrong six ways to Sunday.

Ooh, hope that was therapeutic for you!

"My objection to the NYAG's action is this: it is a transparent attempt to take a political rival out of the public conversation. The harm done to the organization by its leadership will not be corrected by destroying the organization. The crocodile tears being shed for the organizations members and donors are a cynical and dishonest cover for the action."


Prove it.
My "verbiage" proved that you were and are wrong, however.

Your very long posts did an admirable job of recapitulating the pretext for the NYAG's action. It did not, however, address my point. And no, I didn't read every word of every link repeating the accusations (which I accept as true) of self-dealing within the NRA. This is not in contention. You don't need to post another phonebook's worth on it, or the entirety of the Bhagavad Gita, or Isaac Asimov's commentary on the bible because it's not relevant to my objection to the NYAG's action.

I could repeat it (and the evidence I posted for it) (again) but that's already gotten tedious. If anybody is still reading and wants this addressed, scroll down.

..."the New York political establishment's hostility toward NRA is well-documented."

Provide pointers to such documentation. Maybe you can, maybe you can't. But when you post such words without backing it up, you remind me of the family friend/angry drunk who never could back up his "everybody knows" claims (e.g. that blacks can't read, that Jews run secret controlling organizations, etc. And this guy was a high-level executive in Scott Paper Company).

Seriously? You actually need help with this? Do they not have CNN on the planet you've been hanging out on for the last decade?

The antipathy from Laetitia James isn't exactly a secret.
...and a word from Governor Cuomo.
It'll be interesting to see what they dig up
, but probably not a surprise.

That's just from the last two years. Want me to keep going?

Unfortunately, you have a really bad habit of assuming that government institutions are wholly captured by politics, personal and institutional animus, etc. You use this one-size-fits-all take to frame your opinion on just about every relevant news issue.

If you've warmed up your reading and thinking habits, you could also try responding to my months-ago post, asking you how a Libertarian Party would respond to crises requiring massive government intervention. You might remember that I referred you to Libertarian candidate Jo Jorgenson's NPR interview. I found her suggested policies for containing the pandemic and propping out the US economy quite lacking but you can pick up her lines of thought by reading the interview and expanding on them.

As for  Jo's approach to fighting global warming, she wants to push nuclear power plants...and that's pretty much it. But as I wrote before, the Libertarian Party seems so shackled to its promotion of limited government that it would be HELPLESS during the crises we have now.

I do hope all this wasn't too long for you to read. Really, when you use this "tl;dr" dodge I mostly feel pity for you. 

As I mentioned earlier, yes it was too long to read, and you've picked a really poor example to accuse me of "assuming that government institutions are wholly captured by politics, personal and institutional animus, etc." Much as I enjoy political discussions that are (ahem) all about me I'll leave judging that characterization of my thinking as an exercise to the reader. Feel free to sift thru every post I've ever written here if it means that much to you.

I did respond to your post of several months ago, but I'll admit that rejecting your premise that crises require massive government intervention wasn't the response you were looking for. It is an honest one, however.
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 7:50pm



 kcar wrote:


 steeler wrote:
There is an interesting op-ed by Ruth Marcus in today’s Washington Post about the attempt by the N.Y. AG to seek a judicial dissolution of the NRA nonprofit corporation. Essentially, she thinks it appears too overtly political so it is a bad idea even though there is a valid argument that it should lose its nonprofit status due to “a long substantial fraud that goes to the entirety of the organization.”
 

Yeah, that's one of the op-eds I linked to in my last post. I do wonder whether NY AG James is just using that "nuclear threat" as a bargaining chip.

Haresfur pointed out that the Trump charity got dissolved. One of the pieces I read noted that that dissolution was done with Trump's cooperation. He was willing to shut it down.
 
True. I'm sure the NRA cares more about the NRA than Trump cares about charity.

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 7:38pm



 steeler wrote:
There is an interesting op-ed by Ruth Marcus in today’s Washington Post about the attempt by the N.Y. AG to seek a judicial dissolution of the NRA nonprofit corporation. Essentially, she thinks it appears too overtly political so it is a bad idea even though there is a valid argument that it should lose its nonprofit status due to “a long substantial fraud that goes to the entirety of the organization.”
 

Yeah, that's one of the op-eds I linked to in my last post. I do wonder whether NY AG James is just using that "nuclear threat" as a bargaining chip.

Haresfur pointed out that the Trump charity got dissolved. One of the pieces I read noted that that dissolution was done with Trump's cooperation. He was willing to shut it down.
steeler

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Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 6:43pm

There is an interesting op-ed by Ruth Marcus in today’s Washington Post about the attempt by the N.Y. AG to seek a judicial dissolution of the NRA nonprofit corporation. Essentially, she thinks it appears too overtly political so it is a bad idea even though there is a valid argument that it should lose its nonprofit status due to “a long substantial fraud that goes to the entirety of the organization.”
haresfur

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Location: The Golden Triangle
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Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 4:53pm



 kcar wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

Agree with your entire statement, 100%. This is how I see what is going on as well. The lady made it a campaign promise in 2018 to kill the NRA. She is doing whatever it takes to keep her promise.
 

Snip...


At least two op-eds have said that such attempts to dissolve corrupt non-profits rarely succeed
in the courts and have come out against the move. One of the op-eds, from the LA Times, made the striking comment that James probably doesn't really expect to get a win for dissolution but is instead going to bargain with the NRA for substantial reform and is taking a very hard starting negotiating position.

...Snip...

Finally—again: from a purely political perspective, the NY AG's case against the NRA is likely going to get pro-gun people to support the Association with political and financial support. It may become a real rallying point for Trump's re-election. So if NY AG James and her office were doing this solely out of politics, her call for dissolution is likely going to have the exact opposite consequences she and they supposedly desire.

Trump Foundation Will Dissolve, Accused of ‘Shocking Pattern of Illegality’


kcar

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Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 3:56pm



 kurtster wrote:

Agree with your entire statement, 100%. This is how I see what is going on as well. The lady made it a campaign promise in 2018 to kill the NRA. She is doing whatever it takes to keep her promise.
 

I'm gonna respond to your post, Kurt, and then leave this matter alone. If others want to respond to this post, fine. But the matter's been pretty well chewed over.

My objection to Lazy8's take on Letitia James' announcement lies primarily with his thought: 


"My objection to the NYAG's action is this: it is a transparent attempt to take a political rival out of the public conversation. The harm done to the organization by its leadership will not be corrected by destroying the organization. The crocodile tears being shed for the organizations members and donors are a cynical and dishonest cover for the action."


AFAICT Lazy8 came to this objection without reading the NPR article posted to this thread. His belief apparently is that the NY AG's office's investigation, findings and announced course of action are based primarily, perhaps solely, on political leanings and allegiances. Lazy8 and you, Kurt, have commented on James's public statements about the NRA to defend your take that James is doing a political hit job based on her personal dislike for the NRA.

The National Review agrees with you two, but like you it fails to offer much evidence as to why the move to dissolve the NRA is only a political hit job and an attempt to stop the NRA's lobbying for Trump before November 3. Like you, it glosses over the rampant and years-long pattern of law-breaking, corruption and feather-nesting that went at the NRA. This wasn't just the work of the four named executives. The NRA's board and internal accounting staff were complicit. People like Oliver North who tried to investigate and reform from within the NRA were forced out or silenced. NY AG James apparently has filed a civil action against the NRA but has stated that her office is considering filing criminal charges as well.

Letitia James's statement from a few years ago that the NRA is a "terrorist organization" is way over the top. But her office's actions against the NRA are based on finding indisputable evidence of lasting, pervasive and serious criminal behavior. Her move to dissolve the NRA is based on those facts. Personally, I find her decision an overreach, one not likely to succeed. But that move is distinctly within her legal powers.

At least two op-eds have said that such attempts to dissolve corrupt non-profits rarely succeed in the courts and have come out against the move. One of the op-eds, from the LA Times, made the striking comment that James probably doesn't really expect to get a win for dissolution but is instead going to bargain with the NRA for substantial reform and is taking a very hard starting negotiating position.

It's quite possible that she has a strong bias against the NRA. But you have not shown any evidence that her bias warped or corrupted the decision to investigate the NRA or the investigations undertaken or the handling of evidence found. You have not even demonstrated that her possible hostility towards the NRA is unreasonable or lacking grounding in facts.

The NRA has the resources to fight the NY AG in court AND at the same time lobby for Trump's re-election. The courts will not decide the NRA's fate by November. The NRA's charter in NY might be revoked through legal action but the Association can readily move to another state and re-constitute itself. Trump suggested moving to Texas in a tweet.

A person's or organization's First Amendment rights do not allow that entity to commit crimes and go unpunished. Again, the NRA will likely not "die" if the courts let NY AG James dissolve the Association. Supporters of Second Amendment rights can rely on other established pro-gun ownership non-profit groups to exercise their First Amendment rights. Pro-gun citizens in other words are not politically silenced by the case against the NRA.

Finally—again: from a purely political perspective, the NY AG's case against the NRA is likely going to get pro-gun people to support the Association with political and financial support. It may become a real rallying point for Trump's re-election. So if NY AG James and her office were doing this solely out of politics, her call for dissolution is likely going to have the exact opposite consequences she and they supposedly desire.
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