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ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 3:09pm



 oldviolin wrote:


 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
I thought that this was a discussion about personal conduct with the opposite sex different sexes genders other than your own.  I hope that I worded that properly.  Don't want to offend anyone.
 
Blinkers it is.
 

Are you meaning to accuse Kurt of wearing 'blinders'?   I thought blinkers were red lights with magnetic bases that a tow truck operator sticks  on the deck lid of his repo.

anyway probably everybody needs blinkers one way or the other if you think about it...


I'm trading my blinders for an eye patch and setting sail on the pirate ship Periphery as soon as my new peg leg is ready. 

 

It's another term for the same thing, usually reserved for the adjectival because saying someone's "blindered" sounds weird so we might say Kurt's blinkered posting is causing trouble.
oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 3:04pm



 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
I thought that this was a discussion about personal conduct with the opposite sex different sexes genders other than your own.  I hope that I worded that properly.  Don't want to offend anyone.
 
Blinkers it is.
 

Are you meaning to accuse Kurt of wearing 'blinders'?   I thought blinkers were red lights with magnetic bases that a tow truck operator sticks  on the deck lid of his repo.

anyway probably everybody needs blinkers one way or the other if you think about it...


I'm trading my blinders for an eye patch and setting sail on the pirate ship Periphery as soon as my new peg leg is ready. 
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 3:04pm

Biden is one year younger than Sanders. 
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 2:45pm

 oldviolin wrote:

or maybe I did miss your point. I do feel a bit dense lately.

so many memes, so little time

now I'm channeling miamizsun

hey everybody needs to look up to somebody, right?

where is this going?

I'm sorry if I offended. 

 

a turbo rocket sled to hobo heaven
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 2:34pm

 kurtster wrote:
I thought that this was a discussion about personal conduct with the opposite sex different sexes genders other than your own.  I hope that I worded that properly.  Don't want to offend anyone.
 
Blinkers it is.
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 2:31pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Well, any way you look at it, we're talking about Joe Biden as opposed to learning about one of the less well known candidates. The 2020 election is going according to the script. I don't want to hear any whining when Trump wins a second term. 
 

i recently hedged for this

i'm long kleenex, cannabis, tin foil, excedrin and canadian reits

kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 2:26pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
I'll take your reply as a no.

Would you like to discuss Trump's "higher standard of conduct (while in office)" or might blinkers prevent that from happening? Goose and gander. Mote and plank.

 
I thought that this was a discussion about personal conduct with the opposite sex different sexes genders other than your own.  I hope that I worded that properly.  Don't want to offend anyone.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 2:17pm

 kurtster wrote:
I'll take your reply as a no.

Would you like to discuss Trump's "higher standard of conduct (while in office)" or might blinkers prevent that from happening? Goose and gander. Mote and plank.
Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 2:12pm

ScottFromWyoming wrote:
I just mean that if we agree Biden's not going to make it to the elimination round, we shouldn't talk about him. We need to get more information about the other candidates, not gossip about crazy Uncle Joe.
 
Well, he is technically the front runner. By a fairly wide margin.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 2:11pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
Does not a higher standard of conduct apply to a federally elected office holder (Edit: while in office) than a private citizen ?



 
I'll take your reply as a no.


R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 2:07pm

 kurtster wrote:
Does not a higher standard of conduct apply to a federally elected office holder than a private citizen ?


oldviolin

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Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 2:00pm



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 oldviolin wrote:


now I'm channeling miamizsun


  

 
I just mean that if we agree Biden's not going to make it to the elimination round, we shouldn't talk about him. We need to get more information about the other candidates, not gossip about crazy Uncle Joe.

 

What's the buzz; tell me what's happening...

indeed sir...
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 1:59pm

I don't know if this matters or not, but ...

all of the things done by Trump were as a private citizen.  The things Biden has done that we are discussing were all done as either Vice President or Senator ...   Does not a higher standard of conduct apply to a federally elected office holder (while in office) than a private citizen ?  As touchy / feely as Trump was as a private citizen, he has in no way conducted himself improperly as POTUS.  There is a reason Biden is called Uncle Joe ...


RabbitEars

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Location: original states


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 1:57pm



 sirdroseph wrote:

I guess a good litmus test is that if you had a daughter and he was groping her like that to the point to where she was visibly uncomfortable, how would you see it?  Or would you behave that way yourself?   Biden is smart, imo I see someone getting away with as most feels as he can without it being definitely defined as groping.  I really don't see how anyone could see any different.  Perhaps it would help if you imagined Trump behaving the exact same way (not the actual feeling up of grown women by grabbing their private parts, there is no misconstruing that and there is nothing to discuss) perhaps you would see it for what it really is or not.  It does bother me that he could get away with that all of these years, just goes to show that although metoo has some possible side effects, it obviously needed to happen.   Bet Biden will be more careful this time around if he does run and stay in the public eye. 


 
I think by calling it groping you've already put a box around it. I've been groped more times than I can remember, and I can say from personal experience that there is a big difference between being groped and having body boundaries disrespected (at least in my experience - again, it's personal - someone who's been abused might have a harder time discriminating). I wouldn't want my kids to be intruded upon like that, but I also don't see it as sexual. I wouldn't want them to even hear trump's voice, let alone be in his physical presence - he is toxic all around, but I don't like your premise - it assumes that the motive, intention and consciousness of any person's behavior and their relationship to the other person is interchangeable. My contention is that each relationship is unique, and I could be perfectly comfortable with one guy putting his hands on my shoulder and 100% uncomfortable just being in the same room with another - it's up to me to let you know how I feel, not for me to decide how it is for someone else - I see that as disempowering. I think you're also making Biden's behavior more conscious than it probably is... you've made all sorts of judgments that I just can't agree with you are ours to make. 

Just think about it culturally - there are cultures where people touch each other constantly, and others that don't. Just thinking of the families I know, some are like puppy piles and others show little to no affection. All that plays out in our unconsciousness in terms of what we can tolerate or enjoy. 

Your last line actually saddens me. While I would like him to learn to respect boundaries, I don't want him feeling constrained from being himself, if what most people experience from him is warmth and affection. And that's what I'm getting at - are we going to rope men in so far that they can't be comfortable in their own skin? Do they have to suffer the same pain women have in order to put things right?  I think there are more conscious ways of moving in that direction. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/in...

https://greatergood.berkeley.e...

https://frontier.ac.uk/blog/20...




ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 1:55pm



 oldviolin wrote:


now I'm channeling miamizsun


  

 
I just mean that if we agree Biden's not going to make it to the elimination round, we shouldn't talk about him. We need to get more information about the other candidates, not gossip about crazy Uncle Joe.

oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 12:49pm



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 oldviolin wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Well, any way you look at it, we're talking about Joe Biden as opposed to learning about one of the less well known candidates. The 2020 election is going according to the script. I don't want to hear any whining when Trump wins a second term. 
 

Lolololololol

Biden's a jackass. 
We all know it. That hasn't stopped anyone else from running yet...

I  don't think he's a perv though...

JMHO
 
Sort of missing the point. But by all means, we should keep talking about the candidates we don't care about.

 
Scott I can assure that I wasn't laughing at your insinuation. You are a vested member of the struggle. 
I'm not sure I missed your point at all . You and I want to replace Trump and we don't care if they're somewhat flawed because we know they all will be so the thing is not to find a perfect human being or politician but the perfect candidate with the character to derail the colostomy express. It could be Biden. I don't know. I hope not. I can't see it.  I hope it won't be a circus. I'm sure everyone wants a best case scenario. Maybe we can learn the lesson of Trump. Now I've used his name as a cautionary tale. That's the trick  you know, to resolve our way to harmony

or maybe I did miss your point. I do feel a bit dense lately.

so many memes, so little time

now I'm channeling miamizsun

hey everybody needs to look up to somebody, right?

where is this going?

I'm sorry if I offended. 
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 12:25pm



 oldviolin wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Well, any way you look at it, we're talking about Joe Biden as opposed to learning about one of the less well known candidates. The 2020 election is going according to the script. I don't want to hear any whining when Trump wins a second term. 
 

Lolololololol

Biden's a jackass. 
We all know it. That hasn't stopped anyone else from running yet...

I  don't think he's a perv though...

JMHO
 
Sort of missing the point. But by all means, we should keep talking about the candidates we don't care about.

sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 12:15pm

 RabbitEars wrote:


 sirdroseph wrote:

I have rarely if ever seen them miss.  I am hardly politically correct, but in almost all of the public cases the men have been up to some shady stuff.  Like I have said before whether it is Kavanaugh, Biden or Trump I am almost always prone to believe the women for it is much rarer for them to be out and out lying over something like this. 
 
See who miss what? Not following that.... I usually believe women as well, as it takes a lot to step up and say something. But if we make it too easy to destroy people by an accusation, it will become more difficult to believe. Women are not immune from misusing power. 

FYI I did just watch a compilation called "Joe Being Creepy" or something like that. In every shot except one, the scene made me smile - I felt warmth. I did not see anything that by any stretch of imagination could be called "feeling up." But my feelings aren't what count - what I'm getting at is that interactions are personal. We all have our own body boundaries and what might be comfortable for one person might not be for another. We all have unique relationships, and unless we know what each person in each exchange is feeling, all we're doing is making judgments from our personal perspective, which generally contain a good deal of projection. And the MeToo movement has garnered the flavor of revengeful take-down, typical of the crappy emotional contagions that twitter fosters.  I'll also note that there are no shots of Biden touching men, which he seems to do equally (think pics of him w/Obama). So he's an extremely affectionate guy - I actually like that about him. But I understand why many don't - it's personal. 

What I'd say about Joe is that he's the kind of guy likely to violate someone's body boundaries, but beyond that requires the person being touched to weigh in. However, the younger the person, the more we can say a boundary violation is inappropriate. The interaction that makes me uncomfortable is in the collage in this thread - the middle shot on the right with the young girl. He's probably someone that doesn't easily read when he's being too much, but shaming is not a good way of going about learning those skills. We can't function well when we feel shame, no matter who we are. 

What I hope emerges from MeToo is more awareness of how we violate boundaries all the time (especially with babies - my god, very few people respect babies' boundaries), and an increased openness to finding where we are comfortable with each other. 

And, personal opinion, if Joe doesn't run, good. I've got my bias - I'd rather vote for someone younger than 60. 
 
I guess a good litmus test is that if you had a daughter and he was groping her like that to the point to where she was visibly uncomfortable, how would you see it?  Or would you behave that way yourself?   Biden is smart, imo I see someone getting away with as most feels as he can without it being definitely defined as groping.  I really don't see how anyone could see any different.  Perhaps it would help if you imagined Trump behaving the exact same way (not the actual feeling up of grown women by grabbing their private parts, there is no misconstruing that and there is nothing to discuss) perhaps you would see it for what it really is or not.  It does bother me that he could get away with that all of these years, just goes to show that although metoo has some possible side effects, it obviously needed to happen.   Bet Biden will be more careful this time around if he does run and stay in the public eye. 


RabbitEars

RabbitEars Avatar

Location: original states


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 11:50am



 sirdroseph wrote:

I have rarely if ever seen them miss.  I am hardly politically correct, but in almost all of the public cases the men have been up to some shady stuff.  Like I have said before whether it is Kavanaugh, Biden or Trump I am almost always prone to believe the women for it is much rarer for them to be out and out lying over something like this. 


 
See who miss what? Not following that.... I usually believe women as well, as it takes a lot to step up and say something. But if we make it too easy to destroy people by an accusation, it will become more difficult to believe. Women are not immune from misusing power. 

FYI I did just watch a compilation called "Joe Being Creepy" or something like that. In every shot except one, the scene made me smile - I felt warmth. I did not see anything that by any stretch of imagination could be called "feeling up." But my feelings aren't what count - what I'm getting at is that interactions are personal. We all have our own body boundaries and what might be comfortable for one person might not be for another. We all have unique relationships, and unless we know what each person in each exchange is feeling, all we're doing is making judgments from our personal perspective, which generally contain a good deal of projection. And the MeToo movement has garnered the flavor of revengeful take-down, typical of the crappy emotional contagions that twitter fosters.  I'll also note that there are no shots of Biden touching men, which he seems to do equally (think pics of him w/Obama). So he's an extremely affectionate guy - I actually like that about him. But I understand why many don't - it's personal. 

What I'd say about Joe is that he's the kind of guy likely to violate someone's body boundaries, but beyond that requires the person being touched to weigh in. However, the younger the person, the more we can say a boundary violation is inappropriate. The interaction that makes me uncomfortable is in the collage in this thread - the middle shot on the right with the young girl. He's probably someone that doesn't easily read when he's being too much, but shaming is not a good way of going about learning those skills. We can't function well when we feel shame, no matter who we are. 

What I hope emerges from MeToo is more awareness of how we violate boundaries all the time (especially with babies - my god, very few people respect babies' boundaries), and an increased openness to finding where we are comfortable with each other. 

And, personal opinion, if Joe doesn't run, good. I've got my bias - I'd rather vote for someone younger than 60. 

oldviolin

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Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 11:45am



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Well, any way you look at it, we're talking about Joe Biden as opposed to learning about one of the less well known candidates. The 2020 election is going according to the script. I don't want to hear any whining when Trump wins a second term. 
 

Lolololololol

Biden's a jackass. 
We all know it. That hasn't stopped anyone else from running yet...

I  don't think he's a perv though...

JMHO
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