I still don't get what upsets the MAGA crowd so much about their current lot that they are willing to risk a functioning political system for it. They live in one of the richest countries in the world. They have access to the best healthcare in the world (albeit the most expensive). They are well fed, well housed and not facing any existential crisis. What exactly is their problem?
So, speaking of echo chambers. Here's my selbstgespräch on a Friday morning:
1. MAGA think it is the left wing radicals / proponents of CRT and woke urban intellectuals who are the real threat to a functioning system. Because they can't say that without being criticised for being racist, they project their fears onto softer targets, like illegal immigration and border security.
2. Because they fear that left-wing radicals control the Democrat party and that demographic trends favour other groups than WASPs, MAGA supporters fear they will never have their voice heard again.
3. Therefore they think that taking control of the government by force is justified "to save it", or at the least, they are willing to turn a blind eye to any transgressions by their avowed leader in order for WASPs/Christian nationalists to remain in power.
or something along those lines. Assuming that is halfway correct, this is what I would like to say:
1. Left-wing radicals are just one voice among many. They don't control anything, but they have influence. But that is true of every other political force out there.
2. By the same token, just because the WASP demographic is slowly losing its grip on majority rule, this doesn't assign them to the dustbin of history. Their voice will still be the dominant one out there and continue to have massive influence. Further, I personally believe plurality and diversity are things to be aimed for. They make us all stronger and better as individuals. That might sound like some corporate newspeak, but I actually think it is true. Like any other intellectual fad, CRT and wokeism have a bit of good and bad about them. The best countermeasure is to actually sit down and discuss the issues in good faith and prepare to be challenged and to challenge back in return. This is a good thing. It is part and parcel of a vibrant democracy.
3. Finally, as soon as one enters that Faustian agreement to use force and twist the rule of war to get what you want, you have automatically lost the very thing you think you want to protect.
IMO, there is nothing on Earth that justifies ripping the U.S. Constitution to shreds. A functioning pluralistic society is hard enough to create at the best of times and the U.S. is an absolute beacon to the rest of the world about how to get it right. Why destroy it so wantonly?
(FWIW, I would also aim these arguments at left-wing radicals who seek to install some kind of autocratic government, of which there have been plenty over the years.)
So, when Biden says (about MAGA transgressions like Jan.6 or kids in cages), "that is not America", I think he is right. America is something bigger and better than all the diverse groups that make it up. Long may it last.
Google is not trying to pass off images generated by Gemini as factually or historically accurate. The company has provided numerous caveats that Gemini is in beta. It cautions users to check search results provided by its AI chatbots against other resources.
That includes search results for historical information. I asked Gemini (I think it was still part of Bard at the time) when the US population hit 100 million. Gemini provided an answer in understandable English but hedged its answer with claims that this was a difficult question to answer. The answer it did provide was wildly inaccurate.
Michael Cohen could also warn you against regarding AI=generated material as reliable or accurate. IIRC his lawyers provided a response to a judge's request for opinions in a case. They relied on AI (I think it was ChatGPT) and largely copied and pasted case law precedents into their arguments submitted to the court. The cases cited did not exist.
If anything, AI has a tendency towards bias against minorities. For instance, AI facial recognition has long had a much lower rate of success when trying to match images of people of color to databases of recognized individuals. AI chatbots have also "hallucinated" and reached racist conclusions about certain groups, conclusions that were not backed up by evidence.
The entire field of AI is advancing rapidly. Some of the results and conclusions AI programs are not readily understood by humans, to the point that the European Union has demanded that tech companies work to provide "xAI" or Explainable AI to guard against the spread of unexamined biases and inaccurate information.
In some ways, it's commendable (or incredibly sad). The ability to focus only on propaganda in responses, while ignoring issues that you know (or should know) you're on the wrong side...it's a gift. . Me: "So what do you think about Trump's silence on Putin" . Kurt: "You know, supporting Biden means you enable the mutilation of children and free US health care for Chinese-made, cartel-backed fentanyl mules" . That takes discipline... commitment.
So when did this conversation take place ? I don't recall it at any time. Please enlighten me.
rgio wrote:
kurtster wrote:
Trust Google ? You got to be kidding. They've been busted over their AI depictions of people. They cannot generate an image of a white person if someone put a gun to their head.
AI George Washington is black ?
Kurt... congratulations on your promotion to Senior Troll in MAGA. No facts, no discussion... just deflection, anger, racism, and negativity.
Oh and I suppose you are calling me racist once again for posting the AI generated pic of G Washington.
Well it is from your woke, racist buddies at Google. I guess that you and the other regulars here are not even aware of this little, tiny thing.
This article is a week old already, but the issue at hand is even older having been in development and fully vetted and approved long before its release.
In some ways, it's commendable (or incredibly sad). The ability to focus only on propaganda in responses, while ignoring issues that you know (or should know) you're on the wrong side...it's a gift.
Me: "So what do you think about Trump's silence on Putin"
Kurt: "You know, supporting Biden means you enable the mutilation of children and free US health care for Chinese-made, cartel-backed fentanyl mules"
That takes discipline... commitment.
Kurt has made it abundantly clear that there is nothing that Trump can say or do that will ever make him waiver from his support of him. Given that commitment, not much point in trying to help him "find the light". Actually, no point at all. I will engage now and then to let off steam but we are worlds apart in our worldview and what kind of person it takes (or should take) to run this country.
Mitt Romney was recently asked whether he would vote for Trump in the upcoming election and he said "No". The main reason (and I'm paraphrasing here) is that he said you need to possess the right character to run the country. Trump doesn't have that and never will. I still think character counts... a lot actually. A person who denigrates veterans has no place in the White house.
No different from those whose sole concern is unrestricted abortion hitching up with the dems over here.
And what about the children you say. Well the democrat party doesn't give a rat's ass about children. They close schools to in order to give illegals a place to stay. They teach children to lie to their parents and not trust them.
Pressing issues ? I'm more worried about paying bills and getting food right now than climate change.
The republicans are the ones putting laws in place that restrict parents' ability to decide medical treatment for their children. Nah, supporting trump's separating children from their parents, shipping some of them off to be adopted without even keeping records of who went where, that's really not giving a rat's ass about children.
In some ways, it's commendable (or incredibly sad). The ability to focus only on propaganda in responses, while ignoring issues that you know (or should know) you're on the wrong side...it's a gift.
Me: "So what do you think about Trump's silence on Putin"
Kurt: "You know, supporting Biden means you enable the mutilation of children and free US health care for Chinese-made, cartel-backed fentanyl mules"
That takes discipline... commitment.
My sincere apologies (not) for copying and pasting some analysis into the discussion on immigration. I posted about the CBO projection a while back, perhaps in the Immigration thread.
PS—everybody knows Google is a West Coast elite/Chinese Communist plot. Our resident eggspert sez so.
The surge in immigration will help bolster the U.S. economy by about $7 trillion over the next decade by swelling the labor force and increasing demand, the Congressional Budget Office said on Wednesday.
The stronger growth will be good for the federal government, lifting revenues by about $1 trillion more than otherwise over the period, according to the non-partisan agency. Wages, however, will rise more slowly, in part reflecting the increase in the number of lower skilled workers, in the CBOâs estimation.
âIncreases in the population boost the demand for goods, services, and housing,â the CBO said in its budget and economic outlook for the next 10 years. âThey also expand the productive capacity of the economy by increasing the size of the labor force.â
The increased migration stems mainly from people entering the U.S. illegally and from those released by Customs and Border Protection officials with humanitarian parole or with a notice to appear before an immigration judge. After a lag, many of those migrants join the labor force.
For the first two decades of the projection period (from 2024 to 2044), CBOâs estimates of net immigration are based on the agencyâs assessment of recent trends in immigration. From 2045 to 2054, net immigration in a given year is projected to grow at roughly the same rate
as projected overall population growth in the previous yearâ0.2 percent per year, on average.
CBO estimates that net immigration to the United States was 2.7 million in 2022 and will amount to 3.3 million in 2023. The agency projects net immigration to the United States of 3.3 million in 2024, 2.6 million in 2025, 1.8 million in 2026, and an average of 1.1 million people per year over the 2027â2054 period. The larger numbers in the next three years primarily stem from CBOâs projection that the net number of foreign-born people without legal status entering the United States in 2024 will be similar to CBOâs estimate for 2023 and then will become smaller in 2025 and 2026âas the immigration system adjusts (without new legislation) to
the influx of new immigrants. In 2027 and later years, the number of foreign-born people without legal status returns to a number that is more typical of historical
experience.
You have conceded that you do defend here â or are silent about â everything Trump does or says. A first step to recovery.
.
I have criticized Biden on actions/policies. For example, the botched withdrawal from Afghanistan and the incremental approach in providing weaponry to Ukraine in its fight to defeat the Russian invasion.
Good luck with getting him to say anything about Trump's reverence for Putin and Russia. Crickets.
It's pointless. Gonna be a long year. Any doubt...just go try to generate a white guy using AI (file under WTF?)
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Feb 29, 2024 - 5:40am
kurtster wrote:
And you do likewise with Biden.
You have conceded that you do defend here â or are silent about â everything Trump does or says. A first step to recovery.
.
I have criticized Biden on actions/policies. For example, the botched withdrawal from Afghanistan and the incremental approach in providing weaponry to Ukraine in its fight to defeat the Russian invasion.
It has been well documented that 8 million have crossed the border since Biden took office.
Trust
Google ? You got to be kidding. They've been busted over their AI
depictions of people. They cannot generate an image of a white person
if someone put a gun to their head.
AI George Washington is black ?
Kurt... congratulations on your promotion to Senior Troll in MAGA. No facts, no discussion... just deflection, anger, racism, and negativity.
We already have laws, not being enforced that would address these issues and Biden can with the stroke of a pen, close the border right now without any new changes. He chooses not to and chose not to when he reversed all of the policies in place that were working much better than anything previously on day one of his taking office when he reversed all of them. Tell me what the real difference is between 5k per day and an open border. 1.8 million per year sounds like an invasion across a wide open border to me, but not you. And tell me how adding the 8 million new dependents on government resources over the past 3 years to our economy is a benefit and not a hardship that takes away from the needs of citizens.
If we already have laws... why did Republicans help draft recent legislation? The real difference...using your numbers above...2.6 million people. (1.8 X 3 = 5.4 vs 8). 32.5% Over the past 3 years....had Trump put in place the legislation Biden just wanted, we would be spending 1/3rd less supporting immigrants and have that amount for the needs of our citizens. Your "big plan" is to put the guy in who did nothing, and stopped a 1/3rd reduction in immigration...because next time he's gonna fix it. At least he's not saying Mexico will pay for it this time. As for the benefits to the economy...ask Google. It's documented in study after study.
It has been well documented that 8 million have crossed the border since Biden took office.
Trust Google ? You got to be kidding. They've been busted over their AI depictions of people. They cannot generate an image of a white person if someone put a gun to their head.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Feb 29, 2024 - 5:15am
kurtster wrote:
Which is why I have hooked up with Trump and his incarnation of the repub party. My primary concerns are border security and recognition of the difference between legal and illegal immigration along with being against the sexual mutilation of children. Only people who will recognize or even address those issues as valid. In order to get that I have to put up with the other stuff that comes with it.
Calling BS on this. You defend here â or remain silent about it â pretty much everything Trump does or says.
We already have laws, not being enforced that would address these issues and Biden can with the stroke of a pen, close the border right now without any new changes. He chooses not to and chose not to when he reversed all of the policies in place that were working much better than anything previously on day one of his taking office when he reversed all of them.
Tell me what the real difference is between 5k per day and an open border. 1.8 million per year sounds like an invasion across a wide open border to me, but not you.
And tell me how adding the 8 million new dependents on government resources over the past 3 years to our economy is a benefit and not a hardship that takes away from the needs of citizens.
If we already have laws... why did Republicans help draft recent legislation?
The real difference...using your numbers above...2.6 million people. (1.8 X 3 = 5.4 vs 8). 32.5%
Over the past 3 years....had Trump put in place the legislation Biden just wanted, we would be spending 1/3rd less supporting immigrants and have that amount for the needs of our citizens. Your "big plan" is to put the guy in who did nothing, and stopped a 1/3rd reduction in immigration...because next time he's gonna fix it. At least he's not saying Mexico will pay for it this time.
As for the benefits to the economy...ask Google. It's documented in study after study.
Ok Kurt. Pivot away from reality, theorize about what people will or won't do, and throw out a few red herrings to rally the base. So you support no policy instead of a compromised one? Zero per day isn't a reality and would have devastating financial impacts on our economy... but why worry about details? Zero is a foolish argument. Let's keep it simple.... Which is better: open border or 5k per day? Your guy just voted for open.
We already have laws, not being enforced that would address these issues and Biden can with the stroke of a pen, close the border right now without any new changes. He chooses not to and chose not to when he reversed all of the policies in place that were working much better than anything previously on day one of his taking office when he reversed all of them.
Tell me what the real difference is between 5k per day and an open border. 1.8 million per year sounds like an invasion across a wide open border to me, but not you.
And tell me how adding the 8 million new dependents on government resources over the past 3 years to our economy is a benefit and not a hardship that takes away from the needs of citizens.
Incremental improvement ? You mean going backwards ? If we can put an arbitrary limit of 5k per day why cannot we do zero per day ? A limit is a limit. Why codify a bad policy ?
That and ain't no democrat going to enforce another law that they disagree with anyway. To think that they will is unbelievable. It is all posing.
Democrats, the home of Sanctuary Cities, a wide open border, defund the police and child mutilation. You support all of that evidently.
Ok Kurt. Pivot away from reality, theorize about what people will or won't do, and throw out a few red herrings to rally the base.
So you support no policy instead of a compromised one? Zero per day isn't a reality and would have devastating financial impacts on our economy... but why worry about details? Zero is a foolish argument.
Let's keep it simple.... Which is better: open border or 5k per day? Your guy just voted for open.
If you were truly concerned about the border, you would support the legislation on the table... take the incremental improvement... and stay focused on doing more. Not agreeing to that is an admission that all you care about is your leader.
Incremental improvement ? You mean going backwards ? If we can put an arbitrary limit of 5k per day why cannot we do zero per day ? A limit is a limit. Why codify a bad policy ?
That and ain't no democrat going to enforce another law that they disagree with anyway. To think that they will is unbelievable. It is all posing.
Democrats, the home of Sanctuary Cities, a wide open border, defund the police and child mutilation. You support all of that evidently.
That takes discipline... commitment.
