kurtster wrote:

Point of clarification: Do future generations of the slaves owned by founders count, too? As opposed to the ones they brought over after the constitution was signed?

 islander wrote:
As a documented descendant of 3 Mayflower passengers... all of you newbies need to get off my lawn!!!

Note...there are roughly 30 or 40 million descendants running around...so we can keep the lights on when everyone leaves.

 VV wrote:

Yeah, so is it who got there first, or who has the most firepower to hold it?  And what if the second group decides they don't care about the opinion of the first?  Pretty much what happened with 'the founders'. Of course now if we line up on who is 'The Prosperity' of the founders and all of us latecomers, who has the numbers to maintain control?  I bet Ks opinion of who is most righteous would shift pretty quickly here.

Although I do think this clears up some of my confusion on his obsession with his 'provable heritage' to the may flower or something and the inalienable rights that go with that. 

 kurtster wrote:
See? This is why you get yourself into trouble. 
 
I hesitate to ask where you feel the slaves and indigenous people fit into the picture. Just collateral damage of the Founders and their progeny in their quest for prosperity & pursuit of happiness?
  
I guess that tags me as "woke" to even bring that up? Oh well, I could give two sh*ts.
 
Of course, it's no different than what other countries have done during their colonization of foreign lands... but no less troublesome.

 kurtster wrote:
The phrase "The People of The United States" does not limit to only the founders, or perhaps they may have phrased it "We, The Founders of The United States".  Anyhow, Jefferson and his committee had written that "all men are created equal", nothing about when they arrived here.

 black321 wrote:
Sorry...but they said we can have guns, and that's what makes us special in the civilized world.

At this point, who gives a crap about guessing what the "founders" meant?
They are dead, and we are now responsible for carrying out and evolving this experiment...to form a more perfect union.

 kurtster wrote:
Your attention, please.  

Anyone who can't trace their roots to the original 13 colonies before yesterday (March 4), 1789, please step forward and renounce your rights to freedom, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (if you have any).

 kurtster wrote:




From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome*

*as long as you meet the ancestry requirements set forth prior.

 steeler wrote: 
How about future generations of the Founders ?  As opposed to those who arrived after the founding ?

 kurtster wrote:
Future generations

** he responds warily, hoping to avoid going down another rabbit hole **

 steeler wrote: 
Here ponder this in the meantime and tell me what you take the meaning of "posterity" to be in this context.

Preamble

We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice,
insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and
secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this
Constitution for the United States of America.

 rgio wrote: 
Checking in from work.  Yeah, I'm going to see this one through.  A lot to digest that actually interests me beyond just for discussion here.

 rgio wrote:


"I don't really like the guy, but I agree with his policies." MAGA

I think both sides are struggling with plenty of cognitive dissonance...which leads to a lot of the anger.

 steeler wrote:

+3

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

+2

 rgio wrote:
+1

 steeler wrote:
Screed is a much nicer description than I was going to use. 

I'm guessing that Kurt's explanation will take some time, and before I forget my thoughts/questions/comments I was hoping to receive enlightenment for...

Levin is a perfect example that if you say something that sounds intelligent to a group looking for confirmation, they'll hold you up as insightful.  In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is indeed king.  Levin finishes with a patriot hug to Christianity in Arlington.  After talking about the "higher law" of good and evil, he wraps the crowd in a flag and a cross and says "We earned the right to be on top".  The country was founded by people "informed" of Natural Law, and if you doubt any of that, look at the Constitution.

The same group of people, who now "understand and support" the inherent "good" in natural law,  want us to somehow believe that the coming election is a cage match of good vs. evil, support someone who:

- lies repeated, serially, and unrepentantly.  
- embraces violence, anger, and generates fear directed toward anyone who questions him or his policies
- targets specific communities and nationalities to illicit fear and place blame  

Wouldn't Natural Law embrace those who flee danger for the safety and security of the US?

Christianity is a blanket that angry, selfish, mean people wrap themselves in as some sort of armor against potential accusations and recrimination.  Hold a bible, and you can abuse nearly anyone.  If you're not sure, ask a priest.

If this election is about Right vs. Wrong, any suggestion that somehow Donald Trump is the heir apparent to the founder's Constitutional intentions is either stupid or selfish.  Joe Biden is old and a poor option, but he'd be the unanimous choice of the founding fathers, their wives, and their slaves if it were based on moral interpretation of right and wrong.

Y'all Mericans have a big, big problem.  It's all on Joe and it's his signature 'achievement'.  Seems worthy of some thought, prior to election day.

 kurtster wrote:
He only referenced the free expression of religion in those 2 minutes. I listened again: He did say it is not just the free expression of Christianity, which does seem to be an acknowledgment that there should not be a state religion.

He says that but the primary point of his 17-minute clip seems to me to be that America is a Christian nation. To me, he  is saying: There is no official state religion, but we all know this is a Christian nation and it should remain so, that  those suggesting otherwise are leading us down a path to tyranny and totalitarianism. In those last two minutes, he again rails against those talking about “white privilege” and â€œChristian nationalism” and sees those as attacks on Christianity and America itself. He then shows footage of tombstones at Arlington National Cemetery while noting that the vast majority have crosses on them and those buried underneath those tombstones are almost all “white Christian men” without whom we would not have a country. 

You seem to have found this video as instructive, leading you to do more research on Natural Law. I just see it as a screed.