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islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 30, 2020 - 7:05pm



 haresfur wrote:


 R_P wrote:
 Kurtsteria wrote:


 
Yeah, I didn't want to get into that but I have read quite a few accounts of the Portland Police not enforcing the laws equally against protesters and counter protesters. And certainly the mayor has taken a lot of flack from the BLM and associated protesters for his response in keeping order. But Kurt's statement just illustrates how people profile others and try to polarize the situation. Pretty hard to be a centrist these days. Although I suppose the Moms and Dads supporting BLM are best described as radical centrists. Hmm.
 

A segment of them appear to be actively working with the counter protestors (white supremacists), tipping them off to actions and helping them avoid arrest.  This is where calls to defund are coming from. Frankly, if true I don't know how you keep the command structure and trust in the force. 
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Jul 30, 2020 - 4:26pm



 BlueHeronDruid wrote:

Just tryna get through to you. I realize it doesn't fit your narrative. Wake up. Or not.
 

 

oh, snap
BlueHeronDruid

BlueHeronDruid Avatar

Location: planting flowers


Posted: Jul 30, 2020 - 3:02pm



 kurtster wrote:

I can address that, but quite frankly, I'm not in the mood to go in that direction right now.

Especially based on the way it was thrown at me on a highly personal level.
 

Just tryna get through to you. I realize it doesn't fit your narrative. Wake up. Or not.
 

haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 30, 2020 - 2:50pm



 R_P wrote:
 Kurtsteria wrote:


 
Yeah, I didn't want to get into that but I have read quite a few accounts of the Portland Police not enforcing the laws equally against protesters and counter protesters. And certainly the mayor has taken a lot of flack from the BLM and associated protesters for his response in keeping order. But Kurt's statement just illustrates how people profile others and try to polarize the situation. Pretty hard to be a centrist these days. Although I suppose the Moms and Dads supporting BLM are best described as radical centrists. Hmm.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 30, 2020 - 6:17am



 kurtsterkurtster wrote:


It's not about reading comprehension. It's a bogus argument from its inception.

 

a)Why are your posts always so gorked up when you try to reply?
b) You don't get to declare "bogus argument" just because you don't like that it exposes the hypocrisy on your part.  But why are you so upset, you wanted to burn it all down. You were the protester before protesting was cool. 
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 30, 2020 - 5:21am

 haresfur wrote:
Called it BHD.


 
I can address that, but quite frankly, I'm not in the mood to go in that direction right now.

Especially based on the way it was thrown at me on a highly personal level.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 29, 2020 - 11:24pm

 Kurtsteria wrote:


haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 29, 2020 - 11:10pm



 kurtster wrote:
 
Called it BHD.

As always you try to make the discussion about something that it isn't. Saying it is reading comprehension was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

The original point was that the feds actions would be considered war crimes if they were part of a war outside the borders, against foreigners, rather than being taken against US citizens.  And you appear to be saying you are ok with that.

So if someone who was there to protest but not trying to burn down the courthouse gets hurt but the agents have destroyed medical supplies that could treat them, you seem to be ok with that.

And if someone who was there as an observer, from a newspaper, from ACLU or similar group gets hit with teargas, munitions aimed at them by the feds, or hurt in some other way, you appear ok with the government making it so they can't be given first aid.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 29, 2020 - 10:35pm

 haresfur wrote:


 kurtster wrote:


f you want to argue that Federal forces violated the Geneva Conventions, then you have to argue that the protesters in Portland are an organized armed force engaged in protected violence against the United States.
And you are defending people who are trying to burn down a federal courthouse and the people inside.

 
You really need to work on your reading comprehension, dude. I don't know how to explain any clearer that that is not what they are arguing.

And who says I'm defending people who are trying to burn down a federal courthouse (with some pieces of cardboard up against a concrete wall)?

Seriously, learn to read.

 
It's not about reading comprehension.  It's a bogus argument from its inception.

And if you think that there is no serious assault on that courthouse underway, then you are misinformed, imo.

This particular courthouse has been under attack for the past couple of years.  This is not something new in the past 2 months or with the recent arrival of additional federal protection services.  The people trying to burn it down are not a bunch of warm and cuddly housewives either.  But they do hide behind them.  And the warm and cuddly housewives out in front don't seem to have any problem with providing them cover to facilitate this goal.  The mayor doesn't seem to have a problem with burning it down as well.  The whole town is in on it.  While not everyone is down there protesting and whatnot, no one is getting in the way of it or trying to officially put a stop to it.  Other than the feds.

The roots of all of this go back to Sanctuary City policies.  This is the natural progression of these policies.  Total and open utter defiance of the federal government and then government in general.  Burning down a federal courthouse is the height of the expression of this defiance.  Short of killing cops people.

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that you disagree with every word I just wrote above.
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 29, 2020 - 7:38pm



 kurtster wrote:


f you want to argue that Federal forces violated the Geneva Conventions, then you have to argue that the protesters in Portland are an organized armed force engaged in protected violence against the United States.


And you are defending people who are trying to burn down a federal courthouse and the people inside.

 
You really need to work on your reading comprehension, dude. I don't know how to explain any clearer that that is not what they are arguing.

And who says I'm defending people who are trying to burn down a federal courthouse (with some pieces of cardboard up against a concrete wall)?

Seriously, learn to read.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 29, 2020 - 6:27pm

 haresfur wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

Another post to be proud of.

Here's what I saw in the comments as an excellent rebuttal ...

FreedomsChoice
2 days ago

Like many Americans, I have viewed the Federal response to the events in Portland with shock and horror, but Dr. Feigl-Ding's argument is flat-out inaccurate and counterproductive. I am an attorney with experience in the Law of Armed Conflict. The Geneva Conventions do not apply to the events in Portland under any reasonable interpretation. Yes, Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions applies to non-international armed conflict (NIAC). However, even the most expansive definitions of NIAC require protracted violence between governmental authorities and organized armed groups with a military command structure. Riots and isolated acts of domestic terrorism do not arise to the level of a NIAC.

If you want to argue that Federal forces violated the Geneva Conventions, then you have to argue that the protesters in Portland are an organized armed force engaged in protected violence against the United States.

Obviously, that's inaccurate, and only fuels the rhetoric coming from the other side. Lets focus on the real and serious civil rights violations we are witnessing, which are supposed to be protected under our domestic laws.


I am honestly concerned about Newsweek's publication standards if they are spreading such a baseless twitter accusation as if it is coming from an authoritative source.

This article is not contributing to the public discussion.

Emphasis mine.

 
From the article that RD posted:

"Many are missing the point - even if there is no active war - the fact that what is happening would be considered a war crime under GC if there was one — reveals the utter lack of morals and disrespect of human rights of Trump DHS federal forces. That is the point."

They are not saying that the Geneva Convention applies. The US Government is taking all sorts of actions that would be war crimes under the GC if it applied. That is the irony and cause for outrage. The actions that are unacceptable when applied to enemy combatants and civilians in other countries are acceptable to this administration (and to prior administrations) when taken within the United States.

 
If you want to argue that Federal forces violated the Geneva Conventions, then you have to argue that the protesters in Portland are an organized armed force engaged in protected violence against the United States.


And you are defending people who are trying to burn down a federal courthouse and the people inside.
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Jul 29, 2020 - 5:01pm



 haresfur wrote:



From the article that RD posted:

"Many are missing the point - even if there is no active war - the fact that what is happening would be considered a war crime under GC if there was one — reveals the utter lack of morals and disrespect of human rights of Trump DHS federal forces. That is the point."

They are not saying that the Geneva Convention applies. The US Government is taking all sorts of actions that would be war crimes under the GC if it applied. That is the irony and cause for outrage. The actions that are unacceptable when applied to enemy combatants and civilians in other countries are acceptable to this administration (and to prior administrations) when taken within the United States.

 

Thank you. I didn't point this out because, well... kurt.
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 29, 2020 - 4:47pm



 kurtster wrote:

Another post to be proud of.

Here's what I saw in the comments as an excellent rebuttal ...

FreedomsChoice
2 days ago

Like many Americans, I have viewed the Federal response to the events in Portland with shock and horror, but Dr. Feigl-Ding's argument is flat-out inaccurate and counterproductive. I am an attorney with experience in the Law of Armed Conflict. The Geneva Conventions do not apply to the events in Portland under any reasonable interpretation. Yes, Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions applies to non-international armed conflict (NIAC). However, even the most expansive definitions of NIAC require protracted violence between governmental authorities and organized armed groups with a military command structure. Riots and isolated acts of domestic terrorism do not arise to the level of a NIAC.

If you want to argue that Federal forces violated the Geneva Conventions, then you have to argue that the protesters in Portland are an organized armed force engaged in protected violence against the United States.

Obviously, that's inaccurate, and only fuels the rhetoric coming from the other side. Lets focus on the real and serious civil rights violations we are witnessing, which are supposed to be protected under our domestic laws.


I am honestly concerned about Newsweek's publication standards if they are spreading such a baseless twitter accusation as if it is coming from an authoritative source.

This article is not contributing to the public discussion.

Emphasis mine.

 
From the article that RD posted:

"Many are missing the point - even if there is no active war - the fact that what is happening would be considered a war crime under GC if there was one — reveals the utter lack of morals and disrespect of human rights of Trump DHS federal forces. That is the point."

They are not saying that the Geneva Convention applies. The US Government is taking all sorts of actions that would be war crimes under the GC if it applied. That is the irony and cause for outrage. The actions that are unacceptable when applied to enemy combatants and civilians in other countries are acceptable to this administration (and to prior administrations) when taken within the United States.

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 29, 2020 - 11:50am

Fossil Fuel Industry Pollutes Black & Brown Communities While Propping Up Racist Policing
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 26, 2020 - 10:41am


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 26, 2020 - 7:35am

 Red_Dragon wrote: 
Another post to be proud of.

Here's what I saw in the comments as an excellent rebuttal ...

FreedomsChoice
2 days ago

Like many Americans, I have viewed the Federal response to the events in Portland with shock and horror, but Dr. Feigl-Ding's argument is flat-out inaccurate and counterproductive. I am an attorney with experience in the Law of Armed Conflict. The Geneva Conventions do not apply to the events in Portland under any reasonable interpretation. Yes, Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions applies to non-international armed conflict (NIAC). However, even the most expansive definitions of NIAC require protracted violence between governmental authorities and organized armed groups with a military command structure. Riots and isolated acts of domestic terrorism do not arise to the level of a NIAC.

If you want to argue that Federal forces violated the Geneva Conventions, then you have to argue that the protesters in Portland are an organized armed force engaged in protected violence against the United States.

Obviously, that's inaccurate, and only fuels the rhetoric coming from the other side. Lets focus on the real and serious civil rights violations we are witnessing, which are supposed to be protected under our domestic laws.

I am honestly concerned about Newsweek's publication standards if they are spreading such a baseless twitter accusation as if it is coming from an authoritative source.

This article is not contributing to the public discussion.

Emphasis mine.

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Jul 26, 2020 - 7:24am

Portland Federal Agents Accused of War Crimes for Destroying Medical Supplies
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jul 26, 2020 - 7:05am

In Portland’s So-Called War Zone, It’s the Troops Who Provide the Menace
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 25, 2020 - 5:18pm

Homeland Security Was Destined to Become a Secret Police Force
Videos Show How Federal Officers Escalated Violence in Portland
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Jul 23, 2020 - 5:41am

Former Minnesota Police Officer Derek Chauvin Charged With Tax Evasion
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