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Index » Music » Whatever » Women and music Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
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meower

meower Avatar

Location: i believe, i believe, it's silly, but I believe
Gender: Female


Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 10:28am


sirdroseph

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Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 10:26am

 JrzyTmata wrote:

similar? really? the only thing in common is they are both women.
I absolutely do not agree. Baez can't hold a musical candle to Joni. Baez is an interpretive folk singer, mostly singing songs written by others. Joni is an artist in every sense of the word.
 
They both just sound like shrill fingers on a chalkboard to me so admittedly I am not the best judge on this subject{#Lol}, I will leave it to those that listen and enjoy that type of music. Sorry, I probably should not have commented on this subject.

meower

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Location: i believe, i believe, it's silly, but I believe
Gender: Female


Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 10:23am


JrzyTmata

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Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 10:23am

 sirdroseph wrote:

Agreed, but you have to admit they have similar singing styles and voices. I think that is where the comparison lies.
 
similar? really? the only thing in common is they are both women.
I absolutely do not agree. Baez can't hold a musical candle to Joni. Baez is an interpretive folk singer, mostly singing songs written by others. Joni is an artist in every sense of the word.
if you think they sound similar, you really aren't listening.

sirdroseph

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Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 10:17am

 JrzyTmata wrote:
for me, Joni is up there right next to Dylan, right at the top of my favorites list.
but if I had to choose one over the other for contributions to music, Bob wins, but Joni is no slacker.

MY LIST
Bob/Joni
all the others.

Joan Baez?? ugh. seriously? how did she get so overrated?

 
Agreed, but you have to admit they have similar singing styles and voices. I think that is where the comparison lies.

Coaxial

Coaxial Avatar

Location: 543 miles west of Paradis,1491 miles eas
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 10:13am

 meower wrote:


Agreed.  And how people put Joni and Joan in the same category b/c they are women.... wtf?
 

{#Yes} Baez couldn't shine Joni's shoes.
meower

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Location: i believe, i believe, it's silly, but I believe
Gender: Female


Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 10:12am

 hippiechick wrote:

Joan Baez is prolly more respected for her anti-war work than she is as a musician. And she had sex (a relationship?) with Dylan.
 
edit: from wiki

Baez first met Dylan in 1961 at Gerde's Folk City in New York City's Greenwich Village. At the time, Baez had already released her début album and her popularity as the emerging "Queen of Folk" was on the rise. Baez was initially unimpressed with the "urban hillbilly," but was impressed with one of Dylan's first compositions, "Song to Woody," and remarked that she would like to record it (although she never did).

At the start, Dylan was more interested in Baez's younger sister, Mimi, but under the glare of media scrutiny that began to surround Baez and Dylan, their relationship began to develop into something more.

By 1963, Baez had already released three albums, two of which had been certified "gold," and she invited Dylan on stage to perform alongside her at the Newport Folk Festival. The two performed the Dylan composition "With God on Our Side," a performance that set the stage for many more duets like it in the months and years to come. Typically while on tour, Baez would invite Dylan to sing on stage partly by himself and partly with her, much to the chagrin of her fans.

Before meeting Dylan, Baez's topical songs were few and far between: "Last Night I Had the Strangest Dream," "We Shall Overcome," and an assortment of negro spirituals. Baez would later say that Dylan's songs seemed to update the topics of protest and justice.

By the time of Dylan's 1965 tour of the U.K., their relationship had slowly begun to fizzle out after they had been romantically involved off and on for nearly two years. The tour and simultaneous disintegration of their relationship was documented in D.A. Pennebaker's documentary film Dont Look Back (1967).

Joan Baez at the March on Washington in August 1963.

Baez toured with Dylan as a performer on his Rolling Thunder Revue in 1975-76. She sang four songs with Dylan on the live album of the tour, The Bootleg Series Vol. 5: Bob Dylan Live 1975, The Rolling Thunder Revue, released in 2002. Baez appeared with Dylan in the one hour TV special, Hard Rain, filmed at Fort Collins, Colorado, in May 1976. Baez also starred as the 'The Woman In White' in the film Renaldo and Clara (1978), directed by Bob Dylan and filmed during the Rolling Thunder Revue.

Dylan and Baez (plus Carlos Santana) toured together again in 1984.

Baez discussed her relationship with Dylan in Martin Scorsese's documentary film No Direction Home (2005), and in the PBS American Masters biography of Baez, How Sweet the Sound (2009).

Baez penned at least two songs about Dylan. In "To Bobby", written in 1972, she urged Dylan to return to political activism, while in "Diamonds & Rust," the title track from her 1975 album, she revisited her feelings for him in warm, yet direct terms.<32>

References to Baez in Dylan's songs are far less clear. Baez herself has suggested that she was the subject of both "Visions of Johanna" and "Mama, You Been on My Mind," although the latter was more likely about his relationship with Suze Rotolo.<33><34> As for "Visions of Johanna," "She Belongs to Me" and other songs alleged to have been written about Baez, neither Dylan nor biographers such as Clinton Heylin and Michael Gray have had anything definitive to say one way or the other regarding the subject of these songs.




meower

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Location: i believe, i believe, it's silly, but I believe
Gender: Female


Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 10:10am

 JrzyTmata wrote:
for me, Joni is up there right next to Dylan, right at the top of my favorites list.
but if I had to choose one over the other for contributions to music, Bob wins, but Joni is no slacker.

MY LIST
Bob/Joni
all the others.

Joan Baez?? ugh. seriously? how did she get so overrated?

 

Agreed.  And how people put Joni and Joan in the same category b/c they are women.... wtf?

hippiechick

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Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 10:10am

 JrzyTmata wrote:
for me, Joni is up there right next to Dylan, right at the top of my favorites list.
but if I had to choose one over the other for contributions to music, Bob wins, but Joni is no slacker.

MY LIST
Bob/Joni
all the others.

Joan Baez?? ugh. seriously? how did she get so overrated?

 
Joan Baez is prolly more respected for her anti-war work than she is as a musician. And she had sex (a relationship?) with Dylan.

JrzyTmata

JrzyTmata Avatar



Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 10:06am

for me, Joni is up there right next to Dylan, right at the top of my favorites list.
but if I had to choose one over the other for contributions to music, Bob wins, but Joni is no slacker.

MY LIST
Bob/Joni
all the others.

Joan Baez?? ugh. seriously? how did she get so overrated?


Hairfarmer

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Location: The birthplace of Rock & Roll, baby.
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 9:58am

 Jimi_the_Saint wrote:

Hell, I'm just making converstaion.  I don't think we're going to get to the bottom of women and music and sexism and who's better/who's best, etc.

Back to the Joni threadjack, though.  I suppose I don't think of Joni's jazz albums as her defining work, but it's interesting to hear from those who do.  But, as a jazz musician, is Joni at the top of the heap in that genre?
 

{#Lol} Me too.

I just hold to the opinion that Joni is as influencial (or more so, in terms of inovation) a musical artist as Dylan or anyone else you named. This of course leads into the debate of what makes music more influential: inovation or popularity.

As far as the opinions of Jazz musicians or afficianados are concerned? Good luck ever getting a concensus from that crowd. Hell, They can't even make up their minds what music is and isn't Jazz. You get a lot of Jazz people who completely dismiss her 70's stuff as being the results of working with great Jazz musicians, but they don't take into account the only reason she was playing with the Jazz guys in the first place was because all the "Top" rock/pop studio musicians in LA, at the time, couldn't play her songs.


sirdroseph

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Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 9:52am

 Jimi_the_Saint wrote:

Hell, I'm just making converstaion.  I don't think we're going to get to the bottom of women and music and sexism and who's better/who's best, etc.

Back to the Joni threadjack, though.  I suppose I don't think of Joni's jazz albums as her defining work, but it's interesting to hear from those who do.  But, as a jazz musician, is Joni at the top of the heap in that genre?
 
I ain't even gonna front, though I appreciate Joni Mitchell as well as Joan Baez contribution to music in general, I just can't stand their voices or their shrill and frilly style. Again, just a personal opinion of musical taste and no bearing on their importance to musical history. To my ears it is comparable to fingernails on a chalkboard, I know they both have many fans who would disagree, but I would bet dollars to doughnuts there are just as many people out there who agree with me.

meower

meower Avatar

Location: i believe, i believe, it's silly, but I believe
Gender: Female


Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 9:25am

 Jimi_the_Saint wrote:

Hell, I'm just making converstaion.  I don't think we're going to get to the bottom of women and music and sexism and who's better/who's best, etc.

Back to the Joni threadjack, though.  I suppose I don't think of Joni's jazz albums as her defining work, but it's interesting to hear from those who do.  But, as a jazz musician, is Joni at the top of the heap in that genre?
 

I think she is at the top in terms of crossover musicians, yes. 
Jimi_the_Saint

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Location: Kan-tu-kee
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 9:10am

 Hairfarmer wrote:
 meower wrote:
 Jimi_the_Saint wrote:

Perhaps as a singer/songwriter, she is equal to Dylan - but by the time Joni came down from the Great White North to sing her folk songs, Dylan had already been there, done that and moved on to pioneer folk-rock.  In addidtion, Joni's body of influencial music spans about four albums in my opinion (Clouds, Blue, Court and Spark and For the Roses).  Dylan, on the other hand, has a body of influencial music that easily exceeds twice that number of albums.  So, those things being said, is Joni Mitchell as important or iconic as Bob Dylan?  I don't think so, although I'm a big fan of hers.  I'm not even saying that I like Dylan better (OK, I do) - I'm just saying that I believe he is more important to the musical landscape than Joni was.

Aretha, on the other hand - I doubt there is any man that can compare to Aretha.  She really had no rival, male or female, in her wheelhouse.


J,

You're missing something here ~ most artists who were influenced by Joni would call you to listen and experience her work with Jaco Pastorius, Don Alias, Pat Methany, Michael Brecker and Lyle Mays. 

as in:  Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, Mingus and Shadows and Light. 

No, one compares to Dylan and I think it unfair to say that the musician to whom and artist should be compared is Dylan.

 

And The Hissing Of Summer Lawns and Hejira.

Of course we need to estabilish weather the point of the debate is the artist's influence over other artists (and all of their subsequent listeners) or their influence over listeners/the general music buying public.

 
Hell, I'm just making converstaion.  I don't think we're going to get to the bottom of women and music and sexism and who's better/who's best, etc.

Back to the Joni threadjack, though.  I suppose I don't think of Joni's jazz albums as her defining work, but it's interesting to hear from those who do.  But, as a jazz musician, is Joni at the top of the heap in that genre?

meower

meower Avatar

Location: i believe, i believe, it's silly, but I believe
Gender: Female


Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 9:06am

 Hairfarmer wrote:
 meower wrote:
 Jimi_the_Saint wrote:

Perhaps as a singer/songwriter, she is equal to Dylan - but by the time Joni came down from the Great White North to sing her folk songs, Dylan had already been there, done that and moved on to pioneer folk-rock.  In addidtion, Joni's body of influencial music spans about four albums in my opinion (Clouds, Blue, Court and Spark and For the Roses).  Dylan, on the other hand, has a body of influencial music that easily exceeds twice that number of albums.  So, those things being said, is Joni Mitchell as important or iconic as Bob Dylan?  I don't think so, although I'm a big fan of hers.  I'm not even saying that I like Dylan better (OK, I do) - I'm just saying that I believe he is more important to the musical landscape than Joni was.

Aretha, on the other hand - I doubt there is any man that can compare to Aretha.  She really had no rival, male or female, in her wheelhouse.


J,

You're missing something here ~ most artists who were influenced by Joni would call you to listen and experience her work with Jaco Pastorius, Don Alias, Pat Methany, Michael Brecker and Lyle Mays. 

as in:  Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, Mingus and Shadows and Light. 

No, one compares to Dylan and I think it unfair to say that the musician to whom and artist should be compared is Dylan.

 

And The Hissing Of Summer Lawns and Hejira.

Of course we need to estabilish weather the point of the debate is the artist's influence over other artists (and all of their subsequent listeners) or their influence over listeners/the general music buying public.

 

RIGHT!  them too!  Hejira.  OMG.

Hairfarmer

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Location: The birthplace of Rock & Roll, baby.
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 9:04am

 meower wrote:
 Jimi_the_Saint wrote:

Perhaps as a singer/songwriter, she is equal to Dylan - but by the time Joni came down from the Great White North to sing her folk songs, Dylan had already been there, done that and moved on to pioneer folk-rock.  In addidtion, Joni's body of influencial music spans about four albums in my opinion (Clouds, Blue, Court and Spark and For the Roses).  Dylan, on the other hand, has a body of influencial music that easily exceeds twice that number of albums.  So, those things being said, is Joni Mitchell as important or iconic as Bob Dylan?  I don't think so, although I'm a big fan of hers.  I'm not even saying that I like Dylan better (OK, I do) - I'm just saying that I believe he is more important to the musical landscape than Joni was.

Aretha, on the other hand - I doubt there is any man that can compare to Aretha.  She really had no rival, male or female, in her wheelhouse.


J,

You're missing something here ~ most artists who were influenced by Joni would call you to listen and experience her work with Jaco Pastorius, Don Alias, Pat Methany, Michael Brecker and Lyle Mays. 

as in:  Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, Mingus and Shadows and Light. 

No, one compares to Dylan and I think it unfair to say that the musician to whom and artist should be compared is Dylan.

 

And The Hissing Of Summer Lawns and Hejira.

Of course we need to estabilish weather the point of the debate is the artist's influence over other artists (and all of their subsequent listeners) or their influence over listeners/the general music buying public.


sirdroseph

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Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 9:03am

 hippiechick wrote:

If you ever listen to fm radio, you would think that there isn't a single woman in music.
 
Fortunately for me, I do not.{#Lol} Other than WUSC, I have not listened to any FM radio in probably 15 years.{#Meditate}
hippiechick

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Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 9:02am

 sirdroseph wrote:
I really think there is too much body of work from both genders to even have this discussion of one over the other. I think the only valid question is do each of us personally prefer women voices as opposed to men or have no preference at all. Personally, I just happen to like more music that is sung by men than women, but I think there are just as many women iconic "masters" that have influenced music history than there are men. BTW nobody has mentioned Ella Fitzgerald or Bessie Smith or even Ethel Waters; I could go on and on........

 
If you ever listen to fm radio, you would think that there isn't a single woman in music.

sirdroseph

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Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 9:00am

I really think there is too much body of work from both genders to even have this discussion of one over the other. I think the only valid question is do each of us personally prefer women voices as opposed to men or have no preference at all. Personally, I just happen to like more music that is sung by men than women, but I think there are just as many women iconic "masters" that have influenced music history as there are men. BTW nobody has mentioned Ella Fitzgerald or Bessie Smith or even Ethel Waters; I could go on and on........


Coaxial

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Location: 543 miles west of Paradis,1491 miles eas
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 8:42am

IIf we are talking influence Carole King can't be ignored...She wrote some of the best music of the 60's for other performers and then recorded an impressive list of songs herself.
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