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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Fix My Car Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 140, 141, 142, 143, 144  Next
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cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:46pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
*insert rant about warped rotors here*
  *insert rant about driving style affecting rotor temps and warping here*

No snark intended. Driving in steep hills requires a whole different braking style. Learned it from my grandfather who lived in CO most of his life.

c.


ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:44pm

 rosedraws wrote:
Just learnt what a brake cylinder is.  That's what's broke on my car, not the drum (which is new).  (But we still think Honda is fleecing us by charging $250 to replace it... so... back to Midas.)

 
Midas: are they all thieves or only the ones I've been to?

Pyro

Pyro Avatar



Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:42pm

 rosedraws wrote:
Just learnt what a brake cylinder is.  That's what's broke on my car, not the drum (which is new).  (But we still think Honda is fleecing us by charging $250 to replace it... so... back to Midas.)

 
Dealerships (IMHO) are almost ALWAYS a fleece....

rosedraws

rosedraws Avatar

Location: close to the edge
Gender: Female


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:42pm

Just learnt what a brake cylinder is.  That's what's broke on my car, not the drum (which is new).  (But we still think Honda is fleecing us by charging $250 to replace it... so... back to Midas.)
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:40pm

 cc_rider wrote:
Yeah, but if a mechanic turns them below the 'allowable thickness', then the car won't pass inspection because of it (yep, they DO check), then the mechanic can be on the hook for repairing it properly. I agree, turning rotors is not a big deal as long as they're not too thin, but I think the margin is much less on newer cars: they are trying everything to meet EPA and CAFE standards. When you're under the gun to meet that kind of regs, it's an easy decision to shave a few thou off the rotor thickness...

c.
 
*insert rant about warped rotors here*

cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:37pm

 Jimi_the_Saint wrote:

I've never had anyone tell me that they can't turn the rotors because of factory specs.  If someone told me that, I'd laugh and walk out the door.  Turning rotors is standard fare and saves some $$ between pad changes.  I would only turn them once, but I'll damn sure turn them that one time.

  Yeah, but if a mechanic turns them below the 'allowable thickness', then the car won't pass inspection because of it (yep, they DO check), then the mechanic can be on the hook for repairing it properly. I agree, turning rotors is not a big deal as long as they're not too thin, but I think the margin is much less on newer cars: they are trying everything to meet EPA and CAFE standards. When you're under the gun to meet that kind of regs, it's an easy decision to shave a few thou off the rotor thickness...

c.


Jimi_the_Saint

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Location: Kan-tu-kee
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:30pm

 Southern_Boy wrote:

Easy answer - "Turning them will take them out of manufacturer's specifications. We can't do that. They must be replaced."

 
I've never had anyone tell me that they can't turn the rotors because of factory specs.  If someone told me that, I'd laugh and walk out the door.  Turning rotors is standard fare and saves some $$ between pad changes.  I would only turn them once, but I'll damn sure turn them that one time.
Manbird

Manbird Avatar

Location: Oroville, Ca
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:30pm

 BillJ wrote:


What about my snare drum? It is making a banging noise, how do I check that?
 
tap it with a stick, see what happens
cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:30pm

 BillJ wrote:
What about my snare drum? It is making a banging noise, how do I check that?
  Take it out of the trunk, silly. Sheesh, I gotta do EVERYTHING around here?

c.


BillJ

BillJ Avatar

Location: just far enough away from NYC
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:27pm

 cc_rider wrote:

Good point! I'm not sure WHICH car I'm talking about! It all applies though.
You may have front discs and rear drums (very common), or discs all around (becoming moreso), but the results are the same. Rear discs, like rear drums, see much less braking force, and wear more slowly than fronts. Which is why rear discs are usually smaller than the fronts (see weight savings comment).

If your wheels are 'open' enough to see/feel the brake discs, you can check them yourself. To check drum brakes you have to pull off the wheel and drum. Either way, I wouldn't take the mechanic's word for it: what's that old saying? "Trust, but Verify".

c.
 

What about my snare drum? It is making a banging noise, how do I check that?
cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:23pm

 p4jkafla wrote:
I'm confused cc_rider...

Are you talking about my car, or Rosedrawers' Honda?

Mine is front DISC brakes...and I was asking about pads on the FRONT of the car...(along with the rotor issue I mentioned...
 
Good point! I'm not sure WHICH car I'm talking about! It all applies though.
You may have front discs and rear drums (very common), or discs all around (becoming moreso), but the results are the same. Rear discs, like rear drums, see much less braking force, and wear more slowly than fronts. Which is why rear discs are usually smaller than the fronts (see weight savings comment).

If your wheels are 'open' enough to see/feel the brake discs, you can check them yourself. To check drum brakes you have to pull off the wheel and drum. Either way, I wouldn't take the mechanic's word for it: what's that old saying? "Trust, but Verify".

c.

rosedraws

rosedraws Avatar

Location: close to the edge
Gender: Female


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:16pm

maryte wrote:

I've had a Honda and an Acura - $600 for a timing belt is pretty standard (and I've *never* gone to a dealership). But more importantly, with that kind of milage on the beast, a timing belt is muy importante. If it goes, you can pretty much kiss the engine goodbye, so you *do* want to replace it before it breaks or you'll have a giant paperweight on your hands. Although I always remember what Click and Clack say: "There are three kinds of car problems: the ones that will strand you, the ones that will cost you, and the ones that will kill you.", and "First fix everything that makes the car stop, then fix everything that makes the car go." Those two statements are, of course, related.



Looks like we'll try to go back to the dealer for the timing belt, because the one good mechanic I know is pretty busy (duh). 

In December, the good mechanic will check out the Catalytic Converter ("might just be the Oxygen Sensor" all the car guys said).  I'll have him do the tuneup too because he can do it SO much cheaper than Honda.

None of the car guys I talked to could figure out how Honda got to $1600 for the Converter!

Total?  Closer to $1200 than $3000.  Whew!

p4jkafla

p4jkafla Avatar

Location: New England, USA
Gender: Female


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:16pm

 cc_rider wrote:
Oops.
That changes things: drums hardly EVER need replacing. Wheel cylinders, on the other hand, are often changed during brake jobs.

Rear drums and shoes can often last through two or three sets of rotors/pads: they just don't see the braking forces the front wheels do. That said, heavy trucks, used for hauling and such, can go through drums and discs like popcorn.

I'm skeptical of a mechanic saying you need new drums, particularly without seeing the car first. The guy COULD be legit, but it definitely raises a flag for me. Ditty is right on target: he'll have to pull the drums off to inspect them anyway, so have him show you the cracks, grooves, or whatever it is making him think they need replacing. My guess is he's fishing, and if you ask to see what the real problem is, he'll change his assessment.

c.
  I'm confused cc_rider...

Are you talking about my car, or Rosedrawers' Honda?

Mine is front DISC brakes...and I was asking about pads on the FRONT of the car...(along with the rotor issue I mentioned...


cc_rider

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Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:11pm

 Southern_Boy wrote:
By the way - she said she needs REAR DRUM brakes replaced.

  Oops.
That changes things: drums hardly EVER need replacing. Wheel cylinders, on the other hand, are often changed during brake jobs.

Rear drums and shoes can often last through two or three sets of rotors/pads: they just don't see the braking forces the front wheels do. That said, heavy trucks, used for hauling and such, can go through drums and discs like popcorn.

I'm skeptical of a mechanic saying you need new drums, particularly without seeing the car first. The guy COULD be legit, but it definitely raises a flag for me. Ditty is right on target: he'll have to pull the drums off to inspect them anyway, so have him show you the cracks, grooves, or whatever it is making him think they need replacing. My guess is he's fishing, and if you ask to see what the real problem is, he'll change his assessment.

c.

cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:04pm

 manbirdexperiment wrote:

You can get a nice jeep cherokee like mine for about the cost of repairs. Just sayin.
<< src="scripts/tiny_mce/themes/advanced/langs/en.js" type="text/javascript"><>br />

  That's a contradiction in terms, sorry MBE.

Jeeps, especially Cherokees, are notorious repair-magnets. They may be great off-road, but as DDs they seem to need constant attention. As in all things, YMMV.

c.


Southern_Boy

Southern_Boy Avatar

Location: On my way to the beach
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:02pm

By the way - she said she needs REAR DRUM brakes replaced.
maryte

maryte Avatar

Location: Blinding You With Library Science!
Gender: Female


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:02pm

 rosedraws wrote:
All right all you car heads:

- 2002 Accord
- 4 door automatic
- 159000 miles
- runs like a dream
- pretty good condition, a few dings on the exterior.

- Just repaired ball joints, bushings and put all new brakes on.

Check Engine light and Brake light came on, so we took it into the shop.

Now it needs:

- New Catalytic Converter ($1600)
- New Rear Brake Drums (we did the front I guess?) ($250)
- And we still need to do the Timing Belt (important precautionary measure) ($600)
- And it appears to need a water pump ($100)

- Will eventually need a tune up and new wires too. ($450)



$3000+?!?!?

Is it worth it??

(Kelly blue book is around $3K for trade in, $5K for private sale.)

 
I've had a Honda and an Acura - $600 for a timing belt is pretty standard (and I've *never* gone to a dealership).  But more importantly, with that kind of milage on the beast, a timing belt is muy importante.  If it goes, you can pretty much kiss the engine goodbye, so you *do* want to replace it before it breaks or you'll have a giant paperweight on your hands.  Although I always remember what Click and Clack say: "There are three kinds of car problems: the ones that will strand you, the ones that will cost you, and the ones that will kill you.", and "First fix everything that makes the car stop, then fix everything that makes the car go."  Those two statements are, of course, related.

Rod

Rod Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 12:59pm

 p4jkafla wrote:


Ahhh...got it.

I was wondering because he seemed to know that he was going to put rotors on before he even took everything apart and looked at it. I just told him what it was going, and he said "sounds like pads and rotors"...
 
If you described a metal on metal sound, kind of a grinding, it's a good bet that the pads have worn through and maybe that's why he's suggesting rotors. But yes, do ask to see proof of that, and maybe get another opinion.

cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 12:59pm

 p4jkafla wrote:
Question: Do all brake jobs require new rotors? Can't you just put in new brake pads and be done with it? My mechanic is saying that I'll probably need new rotors, and he hasn't even seen the car yet!

 
ALL brake jobs? No. MANY brake jobs? Yes. Depends on the car, driving style, weather conditions, phase of moon, and driver's Zodiac sign.

Seriously, there's no way to know whether it'll need new rotors until you take a look. But you can do that yourself. Look at the brake disc: check for heavy grooves (a little bit is okay), places where the metal looks 'torn' instead of smooth, anything else that doesn't seem right. Feel the outer edge of the disc: if there is a sharp ridge, you may need a new rotor.

Rotors can be, often are, 'faced' on a special lathe to return the braking surface to flat. In the old days, discs and drums had more sacrificial material, but mftrs are reducing weight wherever they can, and brake discs are a great place to start. So many mechanics assume (rightly) that facing the discs is a low-buck stopgap measure, and the discs will likely need replacing before too much longer.

Check out www.rockauto.com for a good selection of auto parts: I've ordered from them before, and they do a good job. They also have a range of parts, from low-buck to chi-chi performance. I prefer to buy my parts and take them to my mechanic, but I'm a nerd and spend time researching the 'best' parts to use: most people are happy with whatever parts the mechanic uses.

If the discs don't look too bad, don't show any serious grooves, gouges, or edge ridge, they can probably be re-used as is. When I have the time, I take the rotors off and sand them with coarse grit sandpaper glued to a board or pad. I sand them back-and-forth, turning the disc a little each time, so you get a cool 'sunburst' sort of pattern on the disc. This probably doesn't really do all that much, but it's easy, cheap, and might help take the 'glaze' off the discs. It's no substitute for facing the rotors, but it won't hurt either.

Upshot: your mechanic may be right about the rotors. If you told him 'my brakes are grinding', he's guessing they're worn down pretty bad, and he's likely right.

Happy Motoring!

c.

Southern_Boy

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Location: On my way to the beach
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 12:59pm

 ditty wrote:


Yep, they are just trying to get you to pay for something you may or may not need.  Don't forget to ask to see the rotors when they take them off and say you need new ones.  Ask about turning them.  That will really throw them off!  {#Hug}

PP - {#Whipit}

 
Easy answer - "Turning them will take them out of manufacturer's specifications. We can't do that. They must be replaced."


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