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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Fix My Car Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144  Next
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KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 4:42pm

 Lazy8 wrote:

I have. Turning rotors is kind of a racket; back in the day you could talk a mechanic into getting a few hundred thousand more miles out of a rotor by just knocking off the high spots, but nowadays everybody is so scared of getting sued they do it by the book or not at all.

When I replace my own pads I never turn the rotors at all. A few stops and the pads are grooved to match and work fine, but a brake shop that did that might wind up paying for a wreck because the brakes won't stop as well for the first few miles, and if an accident could conceivably theoretically or dishonestly be blamed on the brakes it will be.
Rotors only need turning if they're warped
One thing you need to watch out for with the made in Taiwan stuff that's every where now, they use inferior steel. If you get your rotors wet in the rain, then do panic stops, (or just drive like me), they will have a tendency to warp. I've found that NAPA almost always has better quality parts. They are more expensive, but if you have AAA, a healthy  discount is there. 

KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 4:32pm

 cc_rider wrote:

Agreed. And it sounds like something entirely different from what I usually think of when someone says 'warped rotor'. Riding the brake pedal down a long hill is a sure-fire way to melt a disc. As is heavy days at the track, but something tells me you're not running your GMC at Lime Rock. I've been wrong before though.

I think GM discs are not only too thin, but often too small in diameter as well. Again it's a weight issue, but in this case they erred too far the wrong way. Casual driving in non-hilly areas should not have significant effect on rotors: lasting only six months is a clear sign of a major design flaw.

The front discs on the ex's big Ford SEEM huge, but when the dang thing weighs 6,000#, they get a fair workout. I recently replaced both discs because they were WAY below minimum thickness: they didn't look too bad, but they were seriously worn down. If I was keeping it for myself I'd probably upgrade to larger/thicker/slotted/cryo'ed rotors.

If you're gonna keep the GMC, you might look into cryogenically treated rotors. They last a lot longer. On many vehicles you can also upgrade to thicker rotors, or thicker and vented rotors, or several other options. Worth trying if you're going through them that fast!

c.
 
One nice thing about Chevys, (the only good thing about them) you can buy parts at Quickie Marts (almost).

Hairfarmer

Hairfarmer Avatar

Location: The birthplace of Rock & Roll, baby.
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 3:30pm


katzendogs

katzendogs Avatar

Location: Pasadena ,Texas
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 3:07pm

ScottFromWyoming wrote:

Wrong. A vehicle's brakes should not need a $500 repair after one moderately hard stop. It's a moneymaker pure and simple. Even without any hard stops, my GMC's brakes warp within about 6 months of casual driving. Compare to the Volvo, a heavy car which has been brought to a screeching halt several times: Just fine. GM rotors are too thin.

Crazy poodle car? I can NOT spell any word with phshiyco in it.watever it is



katzendogs

katzendogs Avatar

Location: Pasadena ,Texas
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 2:57pm

rosedraws wrote:
Just learnt what a brake cylinder is. That's what's broke on my car, not the drum (which is new). (But we still think Honda is fleecing us by charging $250 to replace it... so... back to Midas.)


It's a foreign vehicle. They "got you where they want you".

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 2:43pm

 cc_rider wrote:

Agreed. And it sounds like something entirely different from what I usually think of when someone says 'warped rotor'. Riding the brake pedal down a long hill is a sure-fire way to melt a disc. As is heavy days at the track, but something tells me you're not running your GMC at Lime Rock. I've been wrong before though.

I think GM discs are not only too thin, but often too small in diameter as well. Again it's a weight issue, but in this case they erred too far the wrong way. Casual driving in non-hilly areas should not have significant effect on rotors: lasting only six months is a clear sign of a major design flaw.

The front discs on the ex's big Ford SEEM huge, but when the dang thing weighs 6,000#, they get a fair workout. I recently replaced both discs because they were WAY below minimum thickness: they didn't look too bad, but they were seriously worn down. If I was keeping it for myself I'd probably upgrade to larger/thicker/slotted/cryo'ed rotors.

If you're gonna keep the GMC, you might look into cryogenically treated rotors. They last a lot longer. On many vehicles you can also upgrade to thicker rotors, or thicker and vented rotors, or several other options. Worth trying if you're going through them that fast!

c.
 
My dad's Yukon... I drove it a few times and once in traffic in Denver I had to stand on the brakes.. the antilock kicked in and brought that thing to a stop really fast. Which is good. But it was still a $600 repair and I didn't hit anything! He's replaced them several (3?) times since that one. My 2WD Sierra has the same problem, tho, even tho I've been very cautious about hard stops (which is a bad thing too—you shouldn't be afraid to use the brakes!). Had them turned last summer and in a few months started to notice "something" and now it's definitely there. Wooomp woomp woomp.

I'll look into upgrading next time. It'd sure be worth it.

cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 2:37pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
I have. Turning rotors is kind of a racket; back in the day you could talk a mechanic into getting a few hundred thousand more miles out of a rotor by just knocking off the high spots, but nowadays everybody is so scared of getting sued they do it by the book or not at all.

When I replace my own pads I never turn the rotors at all. A few stops and the pads are grooved to match and work fine, but a brake shop that did that might wind up paying for a wreck because the brakes won't stop as well for the first few miles, and if an accident could conceivably theoretically or dishonestly be blamed on the brakes it will be.
  Absolutely on target. My mechanic buddy makes every possible effort to do things RIGHT, but sometimes somebody needs it done CHEAP. And sometimes he'll do it, sometimes not, depending on who it is and what the cheap fix is. But if there's any inkling he could get in a bind over it, he'll pass. I've seen him turn away business 'cause folks want something hinky.

Fear of litigation seems to drive a lot of business decisions.

c.


Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 2:28pm

 Jimi_the_Saint wrote:
I've never had anyone tell me that they can't turn the rotors because of factory specs.  If someone told me that, I'd laugh and walk out the door.  Turning rotors is standard fare and saves some $$ between pad changes.  I would only turn them once, but I'll damn sure turn them that one time.
 
I have. Turning rotors is kind of a racket; back in the day you could talk a mechanic into getting a few hundred thousand more miles out of a rotor by just knocking off the high spots, but nowadays everybody is so scared of getting sued they do it by the book or not at all.

When I replace my own pads I never turn the rotors at all. A few stops and the pads are grooved to match and work fine, but a brake shop that did that might wind up paying for a wreck because the brakes won't stop as well for the first few miles, and if an accident could conceivably theoretically or dishonestly be blamed on the brakes it will be.

cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 2:15pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Wrong. A vehicle's brakes should not need a $500 repair after one moderately hard stop. It's a moneymaker pure and simple. Even without any hard stops, my GMC's brakes warp within about 6 months of casual driving. Compare to the Volvo, a heavy car which has been brought to a screeching halt several times: Just fine. GM rotors are too thin.
 
Agreed. And it sounds like something entirely different from what I usually think of when someone says 'warped rotor'. Riding the brake pedal down a long hill is a sure-fire way to melt a disc. As is heavy days at the track, but something tells me you're not running your GMC at Lime Rock. I've been wrong before though.

I think GM discs are not only too thin, but often too small in diameter as well. Again it's a weight issue, but in this case they erred too far the wrong way. Casual driving in non-hilly areas should not have significant effect on rotors: lasting only six months is a clear sign of a major design flaw.

The front discs on the ex's big Ford SEEM huge, but when the dang thing weighs 6,000#, they get a fair workout. I recently replaced both discs because they were WAY below minimum thickness: they didn't look too bad, but they were seriously worn down. If I was keeping it for myself I'd probably upgrade to larger/thicker/slotted/cryo'ed rotors.

If you're gonna keep the GMC, you might look into cryogenically treated rotors. They last a lot longer. On many vehicles you can also upgrade to thicker rotors, or thicker and vented rotors, or several other options. Worth trying if you're going through them that fast!

c.

Manbird

Manbird Avatar

Location: Oroville, Ca
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 2:05pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

Wrong. A vehicle's brakes should not need a $500 repair after one moderately hard stop. It's a moneymaker pure and simple. Even without any hard stops, my GMC's brakes warp within about 6 months of casual driving. Compare to the Volvo, a heavy car which has been brought to a screeching halt several times: Just fine. GM rotors are too thin.
 


Merry Christmas!


ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 2:01pm

 cc_rider wrote:
*insert rant about driving style affecting rotor temps and warping here*

No snark intended. Driving in steep hills requires a whole different braking style. Learned it from my grandfather who lived in CO most of his life.

c.
 
Wrong. A vehicle's brakes should not need a $500 repair after one moderately hard stop. It's a moneymaker pure and simple. Even without any hard stops, my GMC's brakes warp within about 6 months of casual driving. Compare to the Volvo, a heavy car which has been brought to a screeching halt several times: Just fine. GM rotors are too thin.

cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:56pm

 rosedraws wrote:
Just learnt what a brake cylinder is.  That's what's broke on my car, not the drum (which is new).  (But we still think Honda is fleecing us by charging $250 to replace it... so... back to Midas.)
  Contact your local BBB and see what they say about independent mechanics in your area. You are almost guaranteed to get a better price, and maybe a better job of it too. $250 is mighty high to replace a wheel cylinder.

Brake systems have basically three 'cylinders': the master cylinder (which the pedal actually presses against), the slave cylinder (which is activated by the master), and the brake pistons/wheel cylinders. Each one is a piston inside a sleeve, with sliding seals to keep the fluid inside. A 'bad' cylinder just means the seals have gone out, so the fluid leaks out instead of activating the brakes.

Master cylinders do go bad: the most obvious sign is your floorboard is covered with oily liquid. Slave cylinders also go bad, but not as frequently. Brake pistons (on disc brakes) are pretty reliable, but wheel cylinders (on drum brakes) are often replaced as regular maintenance during a brake job.

Replacing a master or slave cylinder is a bit more involved than replacing a wheel cylinder: $250 would not be unreasonable for one of those, particularly if ABS is involved.

c.


cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:46pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
*insert rant about warped rotors here*
  *insert rant about driving style affecting rotor temps and warping here*

No snark intended. Driving in steep hills requires a whole different braking style. Learned it from my grandfather who lived in CO most of his life.

c.


ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:44pm

 rosedraws wrote:
Just learnt what a brake cylinder is.  That's what's broke on my car, not the drum (which is new).  (But we still think Honda is fleecing us by charging $250 to replace it... so... back to Midas.)

 
Midas: are they all thieves or only the ones I've been to?

Pyro

Pyro Avatar



Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:42pm

 rosedraws wrote:
Just learnt what a brake cylinder is.  That's what's broke on my car, not the drum (which is new).  (But we still think Honda is fleecing us by charging $250 to replace it... so... back to Midas.)

 
Dealerships (IMHO) are almost ALWAYS a fleece....

rosedraws

rosedraws Avatar

Location: close to the edge
Gender: Female


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:42pm

Just learnt what a brake cylinder is.  That's what's broke on my car, not the drum (which is new).  (But we still think Honda is fleecing us by charging $250 to replace it... so... back to Midas.)
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:40pm

 cc_rider wrote:
Yeah, but if a mechanic turns them below the 'allowable thickness', then the car won't pass inspection because of it (yep, they DO check), then the mechanic can be on the hook for repairing it properly. I agree, turning rotors is not a big deal as long as they're not too thin, but I think the margin is much less on newer cars: they are trying everything to meet EPA and CAFE standards. When you're under the gun to meet that kind of regs, it's an easy decision to shave a few thou off the rotor thickness...

c.
 
*insert rant about warped rotors here*

cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:37pm

 Jimi_the_Saint wrote:

I've never had anyone tell me that they can't turn the rotors because of factory specs.  If someone told me that, I'd laugh and walk out the door.  Turning rotors is standard fare and saves some $$ between pad changes.  I would only turn them once, but I'll damn sure turn them that one time.

  Yeah, but if a mechanic turns them below the 'allowable thickness', then the car won't pass inspection because of it (yep, they DO check), then the mechanic can be on the hook for repairing it properly. I agree, turning rotors is not a big deal as long as they're not too thin, but I think the margin is much less on newer cars: they are trying everything to meet EPA and CAFE standards. When you're under the gun to meet that kind of regs, it's an easy decision to shave a few thou off the rotor thickness...

c.


Jimi_the_Saint

Jimi_the_Saint Avatar

Location: Kan-tu-kee
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:30pm

 Southern_Boy wrote:

Easy answer - "Turning them will take them out of manufacturer's specifications. We can't do that. They must be replaced."

 
I've never had anyone tell me that they can't turn the rotors because of factory specs.  If someone told me that, I'd laugh and walk out the door.  Turning rotors is standard fare and saves some $$ between pad changes.  I would only turn them once, but I'll damn sure turn them that one time.
Manbird

Manbird Avatar

Location: Oroville, Ca
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 1:30pm

 BillJ wrote:


What about my snare drum? It is making a banging noise, how do I check that?
 
tap it with a stick, see what happens
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