Could've sworn this said, "Fix my Cat."

 ed wrote: 
Well, that's not entirely true. FWD cars generally have less weight in the drivetrain, since they have two short-ish halfshafts instead of a long driveshaft and rear axles. But that's nit-picking.

The electronic butt-warmers probably add less than two pounds to the total weight. Power windows, locks, and fifteen cupholders still only add a few pounds more. Of course those things add up, but those are pretty tiny overall. Take that MonsterGulp out of the cupholder and you're even.
AIRBAGS are heavy: my Miata-phile friends say theirs were around 50 pounds, and that's just two plain fronts, not the 'surround-sound' bags cars have now. Crash-worthy bumpers are heavy too. Power steering adds weight and complexity. Air conditioning's even worse. Cast-iron exhaust manifolds are heavy: tubular headers are a fraction of the weight, with superior performance, but cost 10x more to manufacture. Everything is a balancing act: performance, economy, comfort, cost, on and on.

The REAL weight savings can be found in the drivers seat. Said the kettle...

Can you tell I love talking about car stuff?

c.

 cc_rider wrote: 
"Reasonably unblemished" is relative, though.  Most cars have a "break-wear indicator", as you know, that makes a shrill sound when the wheels turn until the brake pedal is applied.  it's time for new brake lining when you hear that - plain and simple.

With regard to brakes, there's no margin of error as far as I'm concerned.  It's a liability.  Pushing for a new rotor to ensure that the job is done correctly may make the difference between just another customer-pay job and someone suing you for your Jim Walter home.  It ain't worth screwing with.  

 ed wrote: 
Well, I'm a cynic. People ARE no damn good*. And I've seen some real hack jobs by otherwise 'average' folks.

I consider myself somewhat above average, car-wise, but I also have a tool chest full of Snap-On tools, air impacts and ratchets, a big air compressor, et al. So I wouldn't have a problem tackling a timing belt or even an engine swap (unless fab was required: I'm not set up for much of that.)

Take a look at an 'average' stereo or alarm installation: crimp connectors, wires twisted and taped, IDC taps, you name it, it's a hack job. I solder and heatshrink all my connections, and still I've screwed up my share of alarm installs. I put a drill bit through a fuel line once too. Don't ask.

Having seen what average people have perpetrated upon their vehicles, I have a pretty low definition of 'average', that's all.

*.25 to Maryte.

 MusicIsMotion wrote: 
Yeah, all those things ARE true. But it's kind of a balancing act. Most times, by the time the car's brakes have come to the attention of the owner (squealing, pulling right/left, pulsing pedal, et al), the rotors are shot, and there's no cheap way to do the job right: it's either replace the rotors or do an unsafe hack job. But some people have the sense to check their cars occasionally. Those folks might see the pads getting kind of thin, and instead of saying "Heck, I can go another ten thousand miles on those", they say "I better take it in and have those replaced before they get any thinner". In which case the rotors might still be just fine, even if they're a bit worn (but not scored, cracked, grooved, whatever).

She's gonna need new rotors eventually, no doubt. But with new pads and reasonably unblemished rotors, she could go a long time before that happens. And could probably sell the car with 'New Brake Pads' long before the rotors become an issue.

It's a balancing act. It's also a good reminder to take a look at your car now and then. I've heard of Community Colleges and car clubs doing 'Car Talk' seminars on basic car maintenance items, mostly for people who want to know SOMETHING about their cars and don't want to get screwed at the dealership/mechanic's.

c.

 p4jkafla wrote: 
Do they resurface the rotors or do they simply replace them if the pad lining has worn down?  Some shops don't own a brake lathe so their policy is to replace the rotor, period.  It's actually a good policy.  If they do resurface rotors, then minor grooves can be cut out.

That being said, If there's scoring at all, your lining is going to wear down faster until the lining material heats up and fills in the grooves.  Of course, after that happens you achieve what's called "lateral run-out".  The next thing you know, you're steering wheel is jumping in your hands and your brake pedal is bouncing when you brake because the rotor is out of round.  It will grate on your nerves until you go and pay someone all over again to fix it the right way.

Brakes are precision - when you skimp on the repairs, you'll find yourself having them repaired repeatedly. 

 p4jkafla wrote: 
Well done. $90 for a brake job is not bad. The rep must've meant the pads had worn down to the backing plates, thus 'hitting' the rotor. But you were way ahead of them! A little grooving/scoring on the rotor is not a crisis: the outer edge of the rotor is the best way to see how much it's really worn down.

Happy Motoring!

c.

 cc_rider wrote: 
Makes me glad I have a Toyota. 

 ed wrote: 
To be fair, I've seen plenty of what 'the average person' can do to a car. Many 'average' folks use a toolbox consisting of two screwdrivers, a pair of vise-grips, and a claw hammer. The results ain't pretty. How many times have you seen somebody drive a screwdriver through an oil filter to remove it?

On the flip side: I helped a buddy change the brake pads on his Audi TT. The front caliper bolts were two different head styles for the same diameters: one was hex, the other socket. On the rears, same thing, except they were different sizes than the fronts! Sloppy design, and damned annoying for us shadetree types.

Toyotas are famous for being repairable with just three wrench sizes: 10, 12, 14mm. Yeah there's a few 17s and maybe a 19 on a crank bolt or something, but you can just about pull the engine out with only three wrenches. Working on them, then going back to American iron, or worse German, makes you appreciate good engineering.

c.

Just a quick thanks to all who contributed to the conversation about my brakes. I did take it to my mechanic. His service desk called me an hour later, saying that one set of pads had hit the rotors, and that I would need a new one. The thing is, I had removed the wheel the day before to see how bad it was, and there was very very little scoring on the rotor. So when she asked me what I wanted to do, I said just put the pads on. Cost me $90 to get them done.

What a racket...

 Pyro wrote: 
Absolutely agree. I spend a lot of time at my buddy's place, and he will not give a car back to a customer until he has driven it. There is only one dealership I have ever encountered that I will trust with my cars, otherwise I consider them beneath consideration.

On transverse-mounted engines (virtually all front-drive cars), there is usually a motor mount on the front, i.e. passenger side of the engine, which must be removed to replace the belts. It is an amateur mistake not to put the mount back in after service.

To be fair, mistakes happen to even the best mechanics. HOW they deal with it is what separates the stars from the schmucks. Still, taking the car for a test drive is SOP for any mechanic.

c.

 ed wrote: 
Got a better idea about how to put a power plant into a hood compartment sideways, make it front-wheel drive, cut down weight for fuel economy and still make it easy to work on? 

 lily34 wrote: 
I'll do it.  We'll discuss alternative forms of payment at another time.  *smile*

Get your heads out of the gutter people - I wasn't even going there.  ;) 

 Alafia wrote:
 
Subaru shops do this pretty routinely. Access is so much easier it more than pays for the time to pull the motor, and by the time you're replacing a timing belt you might as well do a bunch of seals, clutch, gaskets, etc.

 ed wrote: 

Water pump simple?  Sure.  Timing belt?  Not so much (and yes, I have changed one.  Once.  Just once.).