Album: The Civil WarAvg rating:
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It's the same Ashokan.
There's a small resemblance between the two songs .
Maybe it was on wikipedia or on allmusic that I read this but Ungar composed this for the last day of a music festival or camp in upstate NY in the early 80s. And as note by others, Irish and Scottish music influences are a big part of American folk music. This continues to this day in the world of contra dance music which is usually string-oriented.
Absolutely beautiful on this Wednesday morning.
The first thing I thought of was the Ashokan Reservoir in the Catskills of NY, as Osedax alludes to and where I had been contracted to maintain equipment for the NY DEP.
It's now late March 2019 in northern New England and the heavy snow is finally showing signs of leaving.
Not the Brits, the English…
Actually, many were punished by the English by transportation to the colonies and became indentured servants. These then eventually settled the frontier. The Appalachians resembled Highland Scotland. This was particularly the case after the Battle of Culloden. Some may have tried to establish good relations with the tribes, but again, English desire for more territory and control contributed to conflict. Add to that, the proxy war between the English and the French....
Many southerners were of Irish and Scottish heritage. They brought their tunes and culture with them. Many had left Britain in the 18th and 19th centuries because the Brits had oppressed them and stole their land. For various reasons many migrated to territory south of Mason Dixon line — and stole the land and oppressed people. Very sentimental.
Not the Brits, the English…
Many southerners were of Irish and Scottish heritage. They brought their tunes and culture with them. Many had left Britain in the 18th and 19th centuries because the Brits had oppressed them and stole their land. For various reasons many migrated to territory south of Mason Dixon line — and stole the land and oppressed people. Very sentimental.
To my understanding, a large amount of American Appalachian folk music has its basis in Scottish and Irish tunes.
Very true. You can see it in clogging vs. Irish step dancing. So may deep pockets of Irish and Scots settled in what were once very hard to reach areas of KY, TN, VA and WV.
maybe Jay Ungay played around with it, see link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashokan_Farewell
To my understanding, a large amount of American Appalachian folk music has its basis in Scottish and Irish tunes.
Picking this tune as the backdrop clinched Ken Burns' Civil War as possibly the best historical documentary of all time
If you liked that, by the way, check out Apocalypse WWI. Burns-inspired, much shorter, but equally impactful about a nearly-forgotten war that changed the face of the world completely
timandjuliet wrote:
All of you
And a shout out to all the northerners who point the accusing finger southward to deflect attention away from the racism and bigotry in their own backyard.
Dude, you live in some kind of alternate reality.
Right now there still exists racism in dixieland
True. I've met with southerners who will tell you that slavery was good for the slaves.
And a shout out to all the northerners who point the accusing finger southward to deflect attention away from the racism and bigotry in their own backyard.
Right now there still exists racism in dixieland
And a shout out to all the northerners who point the accusing finger southward to deflect attention away from the racism and bigotry in their own backyard.
Worse. The Canadians.....
I'd like to send a shout-out to all the Southern Governors who would like for us to believe that the Confederacy stood for noble things and how tourists to those states should pay homage to that misunderstood time.
Oh, and I'd like for all the ghosts of slaves and all the ancestors of slaves to simply forget that bit of nastiness that led up to the Civil War. I was all a misunderstanding.
And a shout out to all the northerners who point the accusing finger southward to deflect attention away from the racism and bigotry in their own backyard.
I'd like to send a shout-out to all the Southern Governors who would like for us to believe that the Confederacy stood for noble things and how tourists to those states should pay homage to that misunderstood time.
Oh, and I'd like for all the ghosts of slaves and all the ancestors of slaves to simply forget that bit of nastiness that led up to the Civil War. I was all a misunderstanding.
....................................................................................................................................
(Apologies for the long post; Mandela died yesterday and I'm in a strange mood today.) ....................................................................................................................................
Sasha2001, with all respect, no one should ever forget slavery and the "bit of nastiness" our nation went through to eliminate that affront against humanity. We should also constantly remind ourselves that it took another 100 years before basic Constitutional rights were provided to the descendants of slaves.
But I am a son of the Southland, so please allow my differing viewpoint. Not saying it's right or wrong; just different.
I do not own slaves; neither did my parents nor my grandparents (decent records not available beyond them), nor any Southern governors since 1865. Do not stereotype Southerners, and (my god!) avoid applying the broad brush of racism to all of us.
The stance taken by the South in 1861 was to support slavery — no attempt to dodge that. The raw fact is that most Southern plantations could not operate profitably without free labor. If slavery was illegal, the Southern economy was doomed to fail, as clearly demonstrated for 75 years after the War.
Was all this "nastiness" a complete loss? No; emphatically no! Look up "state's rights", "nullification", "voter eligibility", and "separate but equal" for examples of how we have moved forward. You can also credit advances in weaponry to this war: repeating firearms, more accurate artillery, steel (iron) warships, and the invention of submarines. (Even if you oppose war, those advances are a fact.) And personally, I believe this war solidly cemented the Union for ever and ever until the end of time.
As for tourism, many of the battlefields from the War between the States are now US national parks and landmarks — that is, operated, maintained, and staffed by 21st-century employees of the United States of America. I hope they believe, as I do, that these locations are significant to our national history. Americans on both sides shed blood, lost limbs, and died.
I have visited several of these battlefields and am always overwhelmed by the imagined cacophony and confusion of a life-and-death battle contrasted against the pastoral quiet of the present-day rural settings. If you have the opportunity, I encourage you to visit one, too. They are holy places, consecrated by the blood of those who helped form my nation as it is today.
Who knows? Was our painful struggle necessary for the end of apartheid and the now-universal concept of human rights?
With love from the heart of Yankeeland, unclehud
Sorry Hud, but citing advances in weaponry and warfare as a benefit?
That's just nuts - like saying our modern "food" supply has advanced diseases and so the economic value of "treating" them.
But every once in a while, the message in my headphones says "Stop what you are doing. Be still. Sit calmly for a minute."
This is one of those moments.
I didn't know how to say it, but you said it perfectly.
So long v73c. See you again when you are older and mellower (like some of us...)!
I'd like to send a shout-out to all the Southern Governors who would like for us to believe that the Confederacy stood for noble things and how tourists to those states should pay homage to that misunderstood time.
Oh, and I'd like for all the ghosts of slaves and all the ancestors of slaves to simply forget that bit of nastiness that led up to the Civil War. I was all a misunderstanding.
....................................................................................................................................
(Apologies for the long post; Mandela died yesterday and I'm in a strange mood today.) ....................................................................................................................................
Sasha2001, with all respect, no one should ever forget slavery and the "bit of nastiness" our nation went through to eliminate that affront against humanity. We should also constantly remind ourselves that it took another 100 years before basic Constitutional rights were provided to the descendants of slaves.
But I am a son of the Southland, so please allow my differing viewpoint. Not saying it's right or wrong; just different.
I do not own slaves; neither did my parents nor my grandparents (decent records not available beyond them), nor any Southern governors since 1865. Do not stereotype Southerners, and (my god!) avoid applying the broad brush of racism to all of us.
The stance taken by the South in 1861 was to support slavery -- no attempt to dodge that. The raw fact is that most Southern plantations could not operate profitably without free labor. If slavery was illegal, the Southern economy was doomed to fail, as clearly demonstrated for 75 years after the War.
Was all this "nastiness" a complete loss? No; emphatically no! Look up "state's rights", "nullification", "voter eligibility", and "separate but equal" for examples of how we have moved forward. You can also credit advances in weaponry to this war: repeating firearms, more accurate artillery, steel (iron) warships, and the invention of submarines. (Even if you oppose war, those advances are a fact.) And personally, I believe this war solidly cemented the Union for ever and ever until the end of time.
As for tourism, many of the battlefields from the War between the States are now US national parks and landmarks -- that is, operated, maintained, and staffed by 21st-century employees of the United States of America. I hope they believe, as I do, that these locations are significant to our national history. Americans on both sides shed blood, lost limbs, and died.
I have visited several of these battlefields and am always overwhelmed by the imagined cacophony and confusion of a life-and-death battle contrasted against the pastoral quiet of the present-day rural settings. If you have the opportunity, I encourage you to visit one, too. They are holy places, consecrated by the blood of those who helped form my nation as it is today.
Who knows? Was our painful struggle necessary for the end of apartheid and the now-universal concept of human rights?
With love from the heart of Yankeeland, unclehud
Sigh.
Amen
The cornerstone to the soundtrack to Ken Burn's The Civil War came later....
Sigh.
Sasha2001 wrote:
I'd like to send a shout-out to all the Southern Governors who would like for us to believe that the Confederacy stood for noble things and how tourists to those states should pay homage to that misunderstood time.
Oh, and I'd like for all the ghosts of slaves and all the ancestors of slaves to simply forget that bit of nastiness that led up to the Civil War. I was all a misunderstanding.
I'd like to send a shout-out to all the Southern Governors who would like for us to believe that the Confederacy stood for noble things and how tourists to those states should pay homage to that misunderstood time.
Oh, and I'd like for all the ghosts of slaves and all the ancestors of slaves to simply forget that bit of nastiness that led up to the Civil War. I was all a misunderstanding.
That's the problem with fiddle tunes... they all sound alike
... as anyone who ever tried to learn to play old-timey fiddle music will tell you. It's really amazing how similar many of them are to each other. Maybe all music is that way, and it only stands out more on the fiddle, I dunno.:
Four strings, short fretboard, lack of variation in bowing tension = limited range of tonal separation. Or something like that.
I don't get the "Waltzing Matilda" comparison, though. Seems like a bit of a stretch.
indeed. yes indeed.
What she said
Beautifully captures the time period.
Such an excellent documentary about incredible people.
Waltzing Matilda was originally written as a poem in 1887 by Banjo Patterson and didn't have music put with it until 1903.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waltzing_matilda
Here's a youtube vid of Walzting Matilda played as a simple instrumental to compare with Ashokan Farewell:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfPcfRnwPX4&feature=related
And here's a more up-beat version with lyrics which is how it is more commonly played:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwvazMc5EfE&feature=related
That's the problem with fiddle tunes... they all sound alike
... as anyone who ever tried to learn to play old-timey fiddle music will tell you. It's really amazing how similar many of them are to each other. Maybe all music is that way, and it only stands out more on the fiddle, I dunno.:
you are truly an evolved form of person to encompass the states of Taste and No-Taste in the same point in time and space!!
what murphy said.........
That would be nice to hear. Love that Texas swing.
Waltzing Matilda was originally written as a poem in 1887 by Banjo Patterson and didn't have music put with it until 1903.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waltzing_matilda
Here's a youtube vid of Walzting Matilda played as a simple instrumental to compare with Ashokan Farewell:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfPcfRnwPX4&feature=related
And here's a more up-beat version with lyrics which is how it is more commonly played:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwvazMc5EfE&feature=related
Best post yet.
Beautifully stated. I am fighting back the urge to weep at my desk.
Just gorgeous.
Not every time for me, but sometimes.
"Viewers of the The Civil War frequently and erroneously believe the melody is a traditional tune that was played at the time of the Civil War. In fact, it is the only modern composition on the Burns documentary's soundtrack; all other music is authentic 19th century music."
It's ironic that one of the songs most identified with the Civil war was composed without the Civil War in mind in 1982, and is only associated to the Civil War as a result of Ken Burns wonderul documentary. It's a beautiful piece though, and fits the emotion and feeling of the Civil War perfectly.
ortallcowgirl wrote:
Great choice, I have not heard this song in over 10 years! But i recognized it right away.
Thank you for the info.it's appreciated.............
"Viewers of the The Civil War frequently and erroneously believe the melody is a traditional tune that was played at the time of the Civil War. In fact, it is the only modern composition on the Burns documentary's soundtrack; all other music is authentic 19th century music."
It's ironic that one of the songs most identified with the Civil war was composed without the Civil War in mind in 1982, and is only associated to the Civil War as a result of Ken Burns wonderul documentary. It's a beautiful piece though, and fits the emotion and feeling of the Civil War perfectly.
ortallcowgirl wrote:
Great choice, I have not heard this song in over 10 years! But i recognized it right away.
Perfect comment.
Couldn't agree more...a minute in I always ask myself "what is this?". It is so very beautiful, melancholic but hopeful.
Great choice, I have not heard this song in over 10 years! But i recognized it right away.
Thanks so much for playing this beautiful, haunting song.
9.