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Index »
Radio Paradise/General »
General Discussion »
Overpopulation
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Page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 Next |
Umberdog
Location: In my body. Gender:
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Posted:
Jun 24, 2012 - 6:18pm |
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hippiechick wrote:Nobody even wants to talk about climate change, let alone overpopulation. Overpopulation seems a non sequitur to the gregarious mind, which has defined itself as power in numbers. We are used to producing fodder for war. Thus seems to wit the Machiavellian-Sadistic nature of the Republican mind. Lots of children per family, to do the chores and defend the homestead... and if necessary, a few extras to die in defense of the country.
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(former member)
Location: hotel in Las Vegas Gender:
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Posted:
Jun 24, 2012 - 6:04pm |
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B. F. Skinner (1904–1990) — Behavioral Analysis, Social Service, Educational Reform
The failure of his teaching machine to become as common as automobiles and televisions was Skinner's most bitter disappointment as a social inventor. He fervently believed that the survival of American culture depended upon a revolution in education. With population growth threatening to overwhelm the ability of people to avoid catastrophic wars and ecological disasters, only a technology of teaching incorporating behavioral science could properly educate a citizenry capable of effectively coping with an enveloping ominous world.
Beyond Freedom and Dignity (1971) was Skinner's last and most controversial social statement. He attacked what he believed were the fictions of individual freedom and autonomous man. Every person was under the control of his or her evolutionary, cultural, and immediate operant or behavioral contingencies. What was needed was not only a frank admission of this reality, but the application of the science of behavioral analysis to social problems–most importantly to the obvious failure of U.S. schools. But the critics and the public read the word beyond in the book title as in place of and were enraged. Skinner made the cover of Time with the inscription, "B. F. Skinner Says We Can't Afford Freedom." He was bewildered by the firestorm of criticism and spent his remaining years answering critics and defending behavioral analysis. He never quite understood the historical entrenchment of treasured American values such as freedom and autonomy. Nonetheless, the alternative road for American schools that Skinner, a great and provocative thinker-inventor, devised remains an important contribution to the field of education.
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hippiechick
Location: topsy turvy land Gender:
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Posted:
Jun 24, 2012 - 5:51pm |
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ScottN wrote:I was perplexed, when starting about thirty years ago, over-population wasn't more prominent in international dialogue. You can argue what the long term true carrying capacity of the plant may be, but it certainly is, imo, nowhere near seven Billion and counting.
Religion, my friend. Birth control prohibitions, the need to populate with as many ___________ (fundamentalist religion) as possible. Even W would not fund any international org that distributed birth control. Nobody even wants to talk about climate change, let alone overpopulation.
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ScottN
Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary Gender:
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Posted:
Jun 24, 2012 - 4:49pm |
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oldslabsides wrote: Certainly not if every one of them aspires to live the sort of materialistic life of 'Mercans.
A quotation attributed to Gandhi is (slightly paraphrased but meaning intact) The Earth has enough for everyone's needs, but not enough for everyone's greed.
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Red_Dragon
Location: Dumbf*ckistan
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Posted:
Jun 24, 2012 - 4:46pm |
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ScottN wrote:I was perplexed, when starting about thirty years ago, over-population wasn't more prominent in international dialogue. You can argue what the long term true carrying capacity of the plant may be, but it certainly is, imo, nowhere near seven Billion and counting.
Certainly not if every one of them aspires to live the sort of materialistic life of 'Mercans.
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ScottN
Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary Gender:
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Posted:
Jun 24, 2012 - 4:33pm |
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I was perplexed, when starting about thirty years ago, over-population wasn't more prominent in international dialogue. You can argue what the long term true carrying capacity of the plant may be, but it certainly is, imo, nowhere near seven Billion and counting.
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Umberdog
Location: In my body. Gender:
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Posted:
Jun 24, 2012 - 3:13pm |
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Umberdog
Location: In my body. Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 23, 2012 - 6:12pm |
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DaveInVA wrote:Same here, no babies, just cats. You don't have cats... cats have you!
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DaveInSaoMiguel
Location: No longer in a hovel in effluent Damnville, VA Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 23, 2012 - 6:09pm |
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Same here, no babies, just cats.
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Umberdog
Location: In my body. Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 23, 2012 - 6:07pm |
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triskele wrote:I did my part to fight overpopulation...0 babies. Me too.
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ScottN
Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 23, 2012 - 2:59pm |
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triskele wrote:i did my part to fight overpopulation...0 babies.
I forgot to spawn, so add me too.
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triskele
Location: The Dragons' Roost
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Posted:
Feb 23, 2012 - 2:41pm |
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i did my part to fight overpopulation...0 babies.
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Manbird
Location: La Villa Toscana Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 23, 2012 - 2:37pm |
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ScottN wrote: Manbird wrote:How many people have ever lived on earth?It was written during the 1970s that 75% of the people who had ever been born were alive at that moment. This was grossly false. Assuming that we start counting from about 50,000 B.C., the time when modern Homo sapiens appeared on the earth (and not from 700,000 B.C. when the ancestors of Homo sapiens appeared, or several million years ago when hominids were present), taking into account that all population data are a rough estimate, and assuming a constant growth rate applied to each period up to modern times, it has been estimated that a total of approximately 106 billion people have been born since the dawn of the human specie, making the population currently alive roughly 6% of all people who have ever lived on planet Earth. Others have estimated the number of human beings who have ever lived to be anywhere from 45 billion to 125 billion, with most estimates falling into the range of 90 to 110 billion humans. I will admit to being one who once thought along similar lines. I read your link and it is perhaps true in gross, but it doesn't take into account infant mortality or lifespan or other mitigating factors. But yes, there are seven+ billion of us now and more, probably many many more, have seen birth prior to the 70's (or more so, now). GuesstimatesGuesstimating the number of people ever born, then, requires selecting population sizes for different points from antiquity to the present and applying assumed birth rates to each period. We start at the very, very beginning—with just two people (a minimalist approach!). One complicating factor is the pattern of population growth. Did it rise to some level and then fluctuate wildly in response to famines and changes in climate? Or did it grow at a constant rate from one point to another? We cannot know the answers to these questions, although paleontologists have produced a variety of theories. For the purposes of this exercise, it was assumed that a constant growth rate applied to each period up to modern times. Birth rates were set at 80 per 1,000 per year through 1 A.D. and at 60 per 1,000 from 2 A.D. to 1750. Rates then declined to the low 30s by the modern period. This semi-scientific approach yields an estimate of about 108 billion births since the dawn of the human race. Clearly, the period 8000 B.C. to 1 A.D. is key to the magnitude of our number, but, unfortunately, little is known about that era. Some readers may disagree with some aspects—or perhaps nearly all aspects—of the table, but at least it offers one approach to this elusive issue. If we were to make any guess at all, it might be that our method underestimates the number of births to some degree. The assumption of constant population growth in the earlier period may underestimate the average population size at the time. And, of course, pushing the date of humanity's arrival on the planet before 50,000 B.C. would also raise the number, although perhaps not by terribly much. So, our estimate here is that about 6.5 percent of all people ever born are alive today. That's actually a fairly large percentage when you think about it.
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ScottN
Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 23, 2012 - 1:40pm |
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Manbird wrote:How many people have ever lived on earth?It was written during the 1970s that 75% of the people who had ever been born were alive at that moment. This was grossly false. Assuming that we start counting from about 50,000 B.C., the time when modern Homo sapiens appeared on the earth (and not from 700,000 B.C. when the ancestors of Homo sapiens appeared, or several million years ago when hominids were present), taking into account that all population data are a rough estimate, and assuming a constant growth rate applied to each period up to modern times, it has been estimated that a total of approximately 106 billion people have been born since the dawn of the human specie, making the population currently alive roughly 6% of all people who have ever lived on planet Earth. Others have estimated the number of human beings who have ever lived to be anywhere from 45 billion to 125 billion, with most estimates falling into the range of 90 to 110 billion humans. I will admit to being one who once thought along similar lines. I read your link and it is perhaps true in gross, but it doesn't take into account infant mortality or lifespan or other mitigating factors. But yes, there are seven+ billion of us now and more, probably many many more, have seen birth prior to the 70's (or more so, now). Edit I know your link didn't intend to make a fine grained world population assessment (re; infant mortality, etc), but was a simple look at the question of total births and when.
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Umberdog
Location: In my body. Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 22, 2012 - 10:02pm |
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ScottN wrote: romeotuma wrote:Close to 19 billion births so far in 2012, so the net increase just so far this year is around 12 billion new people... yikes! Parking lots are so crowded these days...
I suggest you check your numbers. I second that suggestion.
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Manbird
Location: La Villa Toscana Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 22, 2012 - 9:56pm |
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How many people have ever lived on earth?It was written during the 1970s that 75% of the people who had ever been born were alive at that moment. This was grossly false. Assuming that we start counting from about 50,000 B.C., the time when modern Homo sapiens appeared on the earth (and not from 700,000 B.C. when the ancestors of Homo sapiens appeared, or several million years ago when hominids were present), taking into account that all population data are a rough estimate, and assuming a constant growth rate applied to each period up to modern times, it has been estimated that a total of approximately 106 billion people have been born since the dawn of the human specie, making the population currently alive roughly 6% of all people who have ever lived on planet Earth. Others have estimated the number of human beings who have ever lived to be anywhere from 45 billion to 125 billion, with most estimates falling into the range of 90 to 110 billion humans.
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ScottN
Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 22, 2012 - 9:12pm |
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romeotuma wrote:Close to 19 billion births so far in 2012, so the net increase just so far this year is around 12 billion new people... yikes! Parking lots are so crowded these days... I suggest you check your numbers.
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ScottN
Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 22, 2012 - 9:06pm |
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The population is at 7B and climbing. The estimated carrying capacity of the planet (before its current defrestation and climate modidification), is around 3B+ +- 500M.
There will be a self correcting mechanism the planet will employ. The Earth has gone thru traumas many times previously through geologic history. Our choice, as I see it, is to be part of the solution or just let nature makes its way. It WILL do so , one way or the other. Equilibrium, in the long term, reigns.
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OlderThanDirt
Location: In Transit Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 22, 2012 - 8:49pm |
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romeotuma wrote: Yes... you can see it on the link... approaching eight billion deaths for 2012...
Well, there you go. That takes care of our overpopulation problem. Bang! Next question.
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winter
Location: in exile, as always Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 22, 2012 - 8:44pm |
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islander wrote: I did not know that about PP, that's a bit depressing. At least some good has come out of the organization.
I'd like to use this moment to reiterate a theme I have mentioned elsewhere: We need to make the world a more dangerous place. We have gone so far in making everything safer that now everyone goes around running with sciscors without a second thought. Let's sharpen the edges - Cars should all be fitted with the " darwin package" at the factory. It's a 8 inch steel spike where the air bag normally is, the seatbelts are in a box in the trunk. You can take the measures to make it safer before you leave the dealer, or just drive away and take your chances, your choice - but no suing anyone later (assuming you survive).
Most people aren't stupid, they are lazy. Given the choice they will just bounce along the padded walls that we put up. But if you leave the rough edges people's self interest will force most of them to make better decisions.
I really worry about long term health care. I think that diabetes treatment will be a big business in a few years, but it will be to late then. The problem is it won't kill them, just leave them incapacitated and unproductive. Then we'll have a real moral dilema ot deal with.
Keep that self-interest/self-preservation stuff in mind the next time you're debating a libertarian. ;)
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