Actually you are correct, I am not offended. I am extremely vain, but try not to let it come out in my everyday life when dealing with people, that is obnoxious. I am actually quite humble in real life, I just like keeping it real and my pet peeve is false humility which is why I use hyperbole in these types of discussions. I am an extremely open and honest person in all of my dealings in those that have long term relationships with me really come to appreciate this over time. I offer no surprises in all of my relationships and take much pride in this fact.

In case you haven't noticed, I like to beat a point to death

In case you haven't noticed, I like to beat a point to death

He was not offended, why should you be.

 
Gotcha.
 
So when you find one, hang on and love him/her like there's no tomorrow.

whatever. you never see...oh, nevermind. i don't know why i'm bothering

i said i agreed with you, so your 2nd paragraph is unnecessary when posted to me.

I didn't say there weren't ANY men with these traits!   in my experience there are not as many as we would think there should be - I know men with these traits!  Most of them are in my family though.  Of course I know men with these traits and an older fella, kind of broad in the shoulders with an easy smile and these traits would be most welcome in my life!  It just seems to me that there are fewer and fewer - as though somehow it's not cool anymore.

It's not the way I say it, it's the way you read it, because you are the one that is looking to take offense.

Anyway, if a person's relationship is tied to external factors and not acceptance and presence, what happens if a person has cancer? Loses a leg or a boob? Or a person gets ill and can't work or be a tornado in bed? How does a relationship sustain under those circumstances?

 

the way you say it, yes.
and as for the rest of your post - the 2nd paragraph. we agree.

It's offensive to say that someone is vain? Why, he has said that often himself. And it's up to him to decide whether that is offensive to him or not. 

Everyone is attracted to others differently. Really, it's mostly about chemistry, literally. Physical attraction is the lower form of attraction, it's meant to get us to mate, but it hardly makes a relationship last. And when you get older, believe me, physical attraction becomes much less important because, at 60, your values really really change.

 

(don't rise to the bait. she's said that before about you many times, it's offensive and not necessary.) anyway, i think i agree with what you said in this thread. i think AT FIRST we're all attracted to the physical (which is relative/subjective from person to person) and other things we find attractive take over that hold more weight than just the physical. in lasting relationships. i think that's true for both sexes. personally, for me - if you can make me laugh, you've got a leg up in the race to catch me. but, i also admit there has to be a physical chemistry. sometimes that's immediate, sometimes it's a little slower (that's what my most current experience has been, and i was pleasantly surprised after waiting to see if it was there, since i wasn't hit over the head with it immediately) whatever that is from person to person. alexandra's original point i agree with, helen's, too, as well as yours. it's just so subjective from person to person. there is no real formula. it's almost magic what can happen between two people - or not.

(don't rise to the bait. she's said that before about you many times, it's offensive and not necessary.) anyway, i think i agree with what you said in this thread. i think AT FIRST we're all attracted to the physical (which is relative/subjective from person to person) and other things we find attractive take over that hold more weight than just the physical. in lasting relationships. i think that's true for both sexes. personally, for me - if you can make me laugh, you've got a leg up in the race to catch me. but, i also admit there has to be a physical chemistry. sometimes that's immediate, sometimes it's a little slower (that's what my most current experience has been, and i was pleasantly surprised after waiting to see if it was there, since i wasn't hit over the head with it immediately) whatever that is from person to person. alexandra's original point i agree with, helen's, too, as well as yours. it's just so subjective from person to person. there is no real formula. it's almost magic what can happen between two people - or not.

Oh yes, we all are. Only difference is I am completely open and honest about it. I thought openeness and honesty was a postive trait sought by women?

Oh yes, we all are. Only difference is I am completely open and honest about it. I thought openeness and honesty was a postive trait sought by women?

Pretty broad brush you're painting there. 

What happens when the money starts to run out, the ass gets fat, the dude can't get it up any more, etc. When a relationship is based on this, it's no surprise when a woman wold leave someone to get more ass, more $$$, more sex.

And, boy howdy, turn that statement around and replace "men" with "women" and see how women also get used. 

Personally, I have always been attracted to a beautiful mind. And you are pretty vain, imo.

Hmmmmm.  Are you in a bad mood this morning?

Pretty broad brush you're painting there. 

What happens when the money starts to run out, the ass gets fat, the dude can't get it up any more, etc. When a relationship is based on this, it's no surprise when a woman wold leave someone to get more ass, more $$$, more sex.

And, boy howdy, turn that statement around and replace "men" with "women" and see how women also get used. 

Personally, I have always been attracted to a beautiful mind. And you are pretty vain, imo.

Actually there are a lot of men with these traits to be sure, I have a lot of them myself. I think our point is not even talking about the men, it is for the women to be more honest with themselves by knowing that power, money, a nice ass, handsome face, big muscles and being a tornado in bed hold as much importance and sometimes more as these other admirable traits in the end and quite frankly there is nothing wrong with that, just own it and be honest about it is all.  I have known many really kind and generous men who treat the women they have had in their life like gold only to be betrayed for a bigger, better deal. Of course not all women will do that, but IMO women are more like men than they want to admit in this regard and there are literally millions of lonely men out there who hold these traits who feel quite bitter when they hear these things out of women. 
Edit: And I am not speaking out of bitterness. I have all of those other traits except for the power and the money, I have never had much ambition and preferred to spend my time in the weight room rather than work on my career!

My apologies - I really did intend to include many men here at RP in the generalization I made!  And yes, there are so many women out there that make me ashamed of them with their behavior.  Maybe what is happening is that most of the good men (those with the traits we are discussing), are happily married and maintaining a good relationship!  Maybe a lot of what is left over are alone for a reason.  But then again,  maybe I am alone for a reason!  I'm not the easiest person to get along with apparently.

And you Sir, are certainly not counted in that loser lot!  (There was supposed to be a hug here for you, but the emotacon won't work.

Actually there are a lot of men with these traits to be sure, I have a lot of them myself. I think our point is not even talking about the men, it is for the women to be more honest with themselves by knowing that power, money, a nice ass, handsome face, big muscles and being a tornado in bed hold as much importance and sometimes more as these other admirable traits in the end and quite frankly there is nothing wrong with that, just own it and be honest about it is all.  I have known many really kind and generous men who treat the women they have had in their life like gold only to be betrayed for a bigger, better deal. Of course not all women will do that, but IMO women are more like men than they want to admit in this regard and there are literally millions of lonely men out there who hold these traits who feel quite bitter when they hear these things out of women. 
Edit: And I am not speaking out of bitterness. I have all of those other traits except for the power and the money, I have never had much ambition and preferred to spend my time in the weight room rather than work on my career!