Despite the hyperventilating by corporate shills such as Matthews and Friedman, Sanders’ democratic socialism is essentially that of a New Deal Democrat. His political views would be part of the mainstream in France or Germany, where democratic socialism is an accepted part of the political landscape and is routinely challenged as too accommodationist by communists and radical socialists. Sanders calls for an end to our foreign wars, a reduction of the military budget, for “Medicare for All,” abolishing the death penalty, eliminating mandatory minimum sentences and private prisons, a return of Glass-Steagall, raising taxes on the wealthy, increasing the minimum wage to $15 an hour, canceling student debt, eliminating the Electoral College, banning fracking and breaking up agribusinesses. This does not qualify as a revolutionary agenda.
Sanders, unlike many more radical socialists, does not propose nationalizing the banks and the fossil fuel and arms industries. He does not call for the criminal prosecution of the financial elites who trashed the global economy or the politicians and generals who lied to launch preemptive wars, defined under international law as criminal wars of aggression, which have devastated much of the Middle East, resulted in hundreds of thousands of dead and millions of refugees and displaced people, and cost the nation between $5 trillion and $7 trillion. He does not call for worker ownership of factories and businesses. He does not promise to halt the government’s wholesale surveillance of the public. He does not intend to punish corporations that have moved manufacturing overseas. Most importantly, he believes, as I do not, that the political system, including the Democratic Party, can be reformed from within. He does not support sustained mass civil disobedience to bring the system down, the only hope we have of halting the climate emergency that threatens to doom the human race. On the political spectrum, he is, at best, an enlightened moderate. The vicious attacks against him by the elites are an indication of how anemic and withered our politics have become.
sanders is probably a nice guy
but his beliefs (like trump's) are a legit concern
replacing trump with sanders doesn't make a lot of sense
the over-arching theme of concentrating more power in fewer hands has consequences
Despite the hyperventilating by corporate shills such as Matthews and Friedman, Sandersâ democratic socialism is essentially that of a New Deal Democrat. His political views would be part of the mainstream in France or Germany, where democratic socialism is an accepted part of the political landscape and is routinely challenged as too accommodationist by communists and radical socialists. Sanders calls for an end to our foreign wars, a reduction of the military budget, for âMedicare for All,â abolishing the death penalty, eliminating mandatory minimum sentences and private prisons, a return of Glass-Steagall, raising taxes on the wealthy, increasing the minimum wage to $15 an hour, canceling student debt, eliminating the Electoral College, banning fracking and breaking up agribusinesses. This does not qualify as a revolutionary agenda.
Sanders, unlike many more radical socialists, does not propose nationalizing the banks and the fossil fuel and arms industries. He does not call for the criminal prosecution of the financial elites who trashed the global economy or the politicians and generals who lied to launch preemptive wars, defined under international law as criminal wars of aggression, which have devastated much of the Middle East, resulted in hundreds of thousands of dead and millions of refugees and displaced people, and cost the nation between $5 trillion and $7 trillion. He does not call for worker ownership of factories and businesses. He does not promise to halt the governmentâs wholesale surveillance of the public. He does not intend to punish corporations that have moved manufacturing overseas. Most importantly, he believes, as I do not, that the political system, including the Democratic Party, can be reformed from within. He does not support sustained mass civil disobedience to bring the system down, the only hope we have of halting the climate emergency that threatens to doom the human race. On the political spectrum, he is, at best, an enlightened moderate. The vicious attacks against him by the elites are an indication of how anemic and withered our politics have become.
Another issue Bernie faces is that he is a 78 y.o man with a recent heart attack but won't release his medical records. That gives pause to many whose primary objective is to beat Trump. An obvious concern is a possibly again-sickened Sanders at election time will hand the victory to Trump.
"I think, first, that (Democratic presidential candidate Elizabeth) Warren and Sanders are not radicals," said Piketty in response to one interviewer's question. "They are moderate social democrats by European standards."
Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary Gender:
Posted:
Feb 13, 2020 - 9:55am
R_P wrote:
...
I saw the segment live and CM was a bit off, to say the least. He has "lost a step" recently, imo.
Another issue Bernie faces is that he is a 78 y.o man with a recent heart attack but won't release his medical records. That gives pause to many whose primary objective is to beat Trump. An obvious concern is a possibly again-sickened Sanders at election time will hand the victory to Trump.
Yep. Hopefully it would be the beginning of the quickening that will splinter the duopoly into more like minded groups offering more choices.
I haven't read up much on the history of third-party situations in the US but they never seem to last very long. Bernie's followers seem to me like they're devoted more to the man than his platform; some pundits describe it as a cult of personality like the one surrounding Trump. If things were otherwise I'd think you'd see more bleeding of support to Elizabeth Warren.
If you are right, sirdroseph, and Bernie's rise signals the splintering of the Democratic party then it could mean a prolonged run of GOP dominance. Tolerance of dissent and difference of opinion within the GOP is gone. GOPers are not going to divide and squabble like the Dems do.
If you're wrong, then I'm not sure how long a third party centered around Bernie's platform would last. I don't see his proposals having much chance of being enacted, even if he becomes POTUS. They'd be too expensive, economically disruptive and politically challenging to succeed in the near-term time frame that Bernie is pushing.
I don't think so, I see Trump's rise in the GOP to be more of a cult following of one man whereas Bernie may have a cult following, it is more of ideas rather than just a man. I think it is pretty clear that although Sanders and Trump do share a lot in common, the primary difference is Trump is not an ideologue, he basically has no ideals other than an oblique form of Nationalism whereas Sanders is clear and pure ideology which will outlast him. Either way, short term we will be alright. Long term, we are doomed regardless.
I agree with this. Not to mention Sanders has a long history of admiring Soviet style communism. Built in ally. Gotta love irony. I do think it is unfair to say that he doesn't care about the military though, I would like to think he is a non interventionist, but that plays into the Russians hands as well. But I'm fine with that, if Russians happen to gain from our withdrawing of troops and influence in the world then so be it.
Bernie is gonna get Trump re-elected. It's like having Ralph Nader as the Dem nominee.
Imagine the folks who are disliking Trump, but are Republicans. Will they jump ship to vote for someone who crows "socialism!"? Of course not. They'll stick with the GOP instead of swerving so far left. Even the moderate Dems and undeclared are going to have second thoughts about him. And that plays right into the tightly grouped Trump-forward voting block's unanimity.
Bernie bros are just thinking about how much they want to have their voice heard and get things for free - but they're gonna find out that they should've had a bigger perspective. Sigh.
i think both bernie and trump share the authoritarian/nationalist/populist type of appeal
(seems like everybody needs a savior for the tribe/identity)
the political answer is always more money, power, control, etc.
probably not difficult to find some comparison on the web
i think a huge challenge for bernie/socialist/communist politicians is that here in florida there are people that have lived/suffered under that authoritarian rule
cubans, venezuelans, etc. are pretty vocal toward those that haven't experienced the consequences of socialism/communism
many still have relatives there who are in dire straits
I believe that Sanders would make a far better president than the current one. I would expect him to back off on some of his more damaging rhetoric aimed at rich people and corporations.
Too bad, many will vote against him out of fear. Question: How many other rich western countries have a 2-party system?
I don't think he will and that is why I respect him. I respect him for being authentic and telling us the truth. You have got to give him credit for being consistent and honest because he is giving people like me who think he is absolutely and fundamentally wrong an easy choice not to vote for him and he knows this. I give him major props for this, he is an honorable man of ideas. He and Ron Paul are the only major well known American politicians in my life time who fit this description. As for the second part of voting against him out of fear. Yes, that would be me and I am proud of it.
I believe that Sanders would make a far better president than the current one. I would expect him to back off on some of his more damaging rhetoric aimed at rich people and corporations.
Too bad, many will vote against him out of fear.
Question: How many other rich western countries have a 2-party system?
You and James Carville! The Ragin' Cajun lives up to his nickname in a profanity-laden interview with Vox.com . This excerpt was pure unvarnished Carville:
James Carville
For fuckâs sake, weâve got Trump at Davos talking about cutting Medicare and no one in the party has the sense to plaster a picture of him up there sucking up to the global elites, talking about cutting taxes for them while heâs talking about cutting Medicare back home. Jesus, this is so obvious and so easy and I donât see any of the candidates taking advantage of it.
The Republicans have destroyed their party and turned it into a personality cult, but if anyone thinks they canât win, theyâre out of their damn minds.
Sean Illing
I wouldnât endorse everything every Democrat is doing or saying, but are they really destroying the party? What does that even mean?
James Carville
Look, Bernie Sanders isnât a Democrat. Heâs never been a Democrat. Heâs an ideologue. And Iâve been clear about this: If Bernie is the nominee, Iâll vote for him. No question. Iâll take an ideological fanatic over a career criminal any day. But heâs not a Democrat.
I believe that Sanders would make a far better president than the current one. I would expect him to back off on some of his more damaging rhetoric aimed at rich people and corporations.
Too bad, many will vote against him out of fear.
Question: How many other rich western countries have a 2-party system?
I believe that Sanders would make a far better president than the current one. I would expect him to back off on some of his more damaging rhetoric aimed at rich people and corporations.
Too bad, many will vote against him out of fear.
Question: How many other rich western countries have a 2-party system?
Yep. Hopefully it would be the beginning of the quickening that will splinter the duopoly into more like minded groups offering more choices.
I haven't read up much on the history of third-party situations in the US but they never seem to last very long. Bernie's followers seem to me like they're devoted more to the man than his platform; some pundits describe it as a cult of personality like the one surrounding Trump. If things were otherwise I'd think you'd see more bleeding of support to Elizabeth Warren.
If you are right, sirdroseph, and Bernie's rise signals the splintering of the Democratic party then it could mean a prolonged run of GOP dominance. Tolerance of dissent and difference of opinion within the GOP is gone. GOPers are not going to divide and squabble like the Dems do.
If you're wrong, then I'm not sure how long a third party centered around Bernie's platform would last. I don't see his proposals having much chance of being enacted, even if he becomes POTUS. They'd be too expensive, economically disruptive and politically challenging to succeed in the near-term time frame that Bernie is pushing.
Bernie is gonna get Trump re-elected. It's like having Ralph Nader as the Dem nominee.
Imagine the folks who are disliking Trump, but are Republicans. Will they jump ship to vote for someone who crows "socialism!"? Of course not. They'll stick with the GOP instead of swerving so far left. Even the moderate Dems and undeclared are going to have second thoughts about him. And that plays right into the tightly grouped Trump-forward voting block's unanimity.
Bernie bros are just thinking about how much they want to have their voice heard and get things for free - but they're gonna find out that they should've had a bigger perspective. Sigh.
did well but the Heather Cox Richardson take on it is that Sanders and Warren (Lefter than the rest) took 1/3, Amy, Pete, et al (centrist) took 2/3
In an NYT op-ed piece, history professor Michael Kazin argues that Bernie Sanders has permanently transformed the policy positions of the Democratic party. In Kazin's words: "Every remaining candidate for president now endorses either Medicare for All or a robust public option, doubling the minimum wage, much higher taxes on the rich, legislation to facilitate union organizing and a transition to an economy based on sources of renewable energy."
