You are putting words in his mouth. He attached no qualifiers to his remark.
Context.
But, ok. Then address my comment: for most people, there is no downside to wearing a mask. And my previous comment: Refusing to wear a mask has nothing to do with individual freedom or patriotism.
Do you agree with both of those comments?
Only a few people have diabetes ? Only a few wear glasses ? Lung disease is a minor problem ?
Refusing to wear a mask when the imposition is done without a law in place is an expression of individual freedom, faulty as it may be.
Refusing to wear a mask as an expression of patriotism is not a proper demonstration of patriotism and is in fact an improper demonstration of patriotism, imo.
I would say the contrary. Wearing a mask is more patriotic than not wearing a mask. Assuming patriotism is defined as standing up for what is good for the whole of the nation. IMHO, attaching the concept of patriotism to wearing a mask is an improper association with the notion of patriotism in the first place.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Sep 12, 2020 - 6:35pm
kurtster wrote:
You are putting words in his mouth. He attached no qualifiers to his remark.
Context.
But, ok. Then address my comment: for most people, there is no downside to wearing a mask. And my previous comment: Refusing to wear a mask has nothing to do with individual freedom or patriotism.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Sep 12, 2020 - 6:29pm
kurtster wrote:
Still want to tell me that there is absolutely no downside to wearing masks ?
For most people, there is no downside. That obviously was what rgio was saying. Trump and his ilk are not directing their anti-mask comments to those groups afflicted with conditions that are exacerbated by wearing a mask that you have identified. I wear glasses and, yes, they often do fog up when I am wearing a mask (although some are better than others on that score). Still just an inconvenience.
There is if you have some form of COPD, especially emphysema, which is mostly the inability to exhale CO2 which is how it kills you in the end. I believe it is a legal medical reason that is an accepted exemption from any requirement to not wear one. Of course a private business could say sorry, no mask, no service. Same as no shirt or shoes, no service. I have emphysema, yet wear a mask in public places and at work, and I have asked people coming into the store to put one on. I get shortness of breath more frequently while wearing a mask and can only wonder what the long term affects of breathing concentrated CO2 are for an extended period of time. I could be shortening my life in the same way each cigarette take minutes off of your life.
And how about those with diabetes ? Ketoacidosis. That condition will cause heavy breathing in an effort to expel the build up of CO2 in the body / blood in order to lower the level of acids in your blood. A mask will get in the way of that and could possibly in an extreme case, lead to a diabetic coma and even death. Just wearing a mask by itself could cause a build up in acids in your blood due to higher internal CO2 (carbolic acid) in your blood.
When I go out and end up standing in long lines and have a coughing episode, partly from having fresh air restricted for extended periods of time I will loudly say, "I'm ok, it's just emphysema, not Covid." I had a little cough today at work and the lady I was working with said "oh no, you have a cough" and I had to calm her down and reassure her that it was only from COPD. I do not leave home without Hall's in my pocket, an albuterol inhaler and some DM cough syrup. Is what it is. There is an even much bigger CV 19 story this woman shared about something that happened at her workplace, but due to privacy laws, I cannot. It is a major Cleveland based Fortune 500 company.
Let's take this one step further. I can assume that you do not wear glasses, based upon your above remark. The number one problem that people who wear glasses face from wearing a mask is the constant fogging up of the lenses, obscuring your vision, long enough at the wrong time to stumble and fall or even wreck the car you might be driving, potentially killing or harming yourself and others in your path. And it's still summer. Just wait until winter gets here when glasses tend to fog up just from going outdoors in the cold. Masks will just exacerbate that problem.
I laid out some other points, but they were all ignored and everyone went for the masks, like they are the one sure thing that will save us all or are totally harmless, bothering only the vain or political. Maybe, but its more of a one size fits all solution that may or may not be helpful. Having said all of this, I will remind you again that I do wear a mask, voluntarily, even though I have valid reasons not to and especially being that I am a Trump supporter, which I am sure that you find that hard to believe
Still want to tell me that there is absolutely no downside to wearing masks ?
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Sep 12, 2020 - 12:21pm
rgio wrote:
steeler wrote:
kurtster wrote:
. . . We still don't know how to treat it. We still don't know how to prevent its spread. Everyone has been on both sides of the mask argument. . . .
The weight of opinion appears to be that the wearing of masks helps to mitigate the spread.
What we do know is that wearing masks does not cause harm. It is an inconvenience.
Refusing to wear a mask is not about individual freedom nor patriotism. It is about selfishness and stupidity.
Trump regularly casts the wearing of masks as a personal choice. One refusing to wear a mask does not just assume the risk for himself or herself. He or she assumes the risk for others â something he or she is not entitled to do.
And if you want to limit the economic damage of the virus and open schools...what do you have to lose by wearing a mask?
Mask wearing has been a known deterrent in the spread of disease for over 100 years. The suggestion that "everyone has been on both sides" is wrong. Fauci told citizens not to wear masks when the supply was limited and frontline health workers struggled to find them. As cases and PPE grew more plentiful, he has been adamant and consistent about wearing them.
There is no downside to wearing a mask. The only reasons for not wearing one are stupidity, vanity, or a combination of the two.
. . . We still don't know how to treat it. We still don't know how to prevent its spread. Everyone has been on both sides of the mask argument. . . .
The weight of opinion appears to be that the wearing of masks helps to mitigate the spread.
What we do know is that wearing masks does not cause harm. It is an inconvenience.
Refusing to wear a mask is not about individual freedom nor patriotism. It is about selfishness and stupidity.
Trump regularly casts the wearing of masks as a personal choice. One refusing to wear a mask does not just assume the risk for himself or herself. He or she assumes the risk for others â something he or she is not entitled to do.
And if you want to limit the economic damage of the virus and open schools...what do you have to lose by wearing a mask?
Mask wearing has been a known deterrent in the spread of disease for over 100 years. The suggestion that "everyone has been on both sides" is wrong. Fauci told citizens not to wear masks when the supply was limited and frontline health workers struggled to find them. As cases and PPE grew more plentiful, he has been adamant and consistent about wearing them.
There is no downside to wearing a mask. The only reasons for not wearing one are stupidity, vanity, or a combination of the two.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Sep 12, 2020 - 7:46am
kurtster wrote:
. . . We still don't know how to treat it. We still don't know how to prevent its spread. Everyone has been on both sides of the mask argument. . . .
The weight of opinion appears to be that the wearing of masks helps to mitigate the spread.
What we do know is that wearing masks does not cause harm. It is an inconvenience.
Refusing to wear a mask is not about individual freedom nor patriotism. It is about selfishness and stupidity.
Trump regularly casts the wearing of masks as a personal choice. One refusing to wear a mask does not just assume the risk for himself or herself. He or she assumes the risk for others â something he or she is not entitled to do.
You are really off base here on this one. There is little unknown about my cancer and how to treat it. The only real unknown is what triggers it. I took no one's word about how to proceed with my treatment. I dug and dug. The only thing that was for sure was, that left untreated, I would 100% certainly be dead within 6 months. Based on that, I agreed to throw the kitchen sink at it and did. I had absolutely nothing and I repeat, NOTHING TO LOSE. Period, end of story.
CV 19 ? WTF do we know about it now that is certain ? Who has been right 100% of the time ? 90% of the time ? Not Fauci and certainly not Biden. We are still learning everyday. We still don't know how to treat it. We still don't know how to prevent its spread. Everyone has been on both sides of the mask argument. We are still at the anecdotal stage. The only thing that we know for certain about CV 19 is that there is hard work going on towards coming up with a vaccine.
Your trying to browbeat me into submission with a genuinely specious argument is contemptible. Earlier, you tried to tell me all about my personal situation and why it was the way it was and I promptly refuted everyone of your projections of my actual situation. Go back and reread my reply.
I suggest that you give up your phony concern for my intelligence and personal ability to take care of myself and make decisions, including actual personal life and death decisions in order to make your points. You really sound like a nanny state democrat that assumes no one is as smart as yourselves.
Try another way. You've been put on notice.
Oh no, Sparky. Don't you try that crap on me.
You've brought up your cancer and treatments before, all on your own, without prompting. YOU made it open to discussion. Your cancer is not some holy subject that only you can bring up.
"Earlier, you tried to tell me all about my personal situation and why it was the way it was and I promptly refuted everyone of your projections of my actual situation. Go back and reread my reply."
Don't remember this at all. Unless you're referring to your epic deranged honk about IVs. Jesus, spare us.
"CV 19 ? WTF do we know about it now that is certain ?"
Not much, it seems, if you're a Trumper who doesn't read decent newspapers.
Trump KNEW back in February that Covid19 was deadly and airborne. He also knew that it was likely to spread widely and rapidly here, based on his administration's reports, including HHS Secretary Alex Azar's desperate warningsâin text and in phone calls with Trump. Trump TOLD Woodward in February that he knew about Covid19's deadliness and ease of transmission and scope of transmission but that he didn't tell Americans all this because he didn't want to spread "panic."
As if the American people were children who had no right to be informed.
I brought up your cancer to ask you to imagine how you would have felt if your doctor/s had deliberately misinformed you so you wouldn't panic...and then you found out what they were doing. You took responsibility and learned about your illness—but what if you'd just trusted someone like Trump who deliberately misled you?
Trump did that to all of us. Some didn't believe him. Some did—including the people who ingested bleach or took hydroxychloroquine based on Trump's recommendations.
"We are still at the anecdotal stage."
We were WAY past the anecdotal stage when Woodward interviewed Trump. Trump denied and denied and denied bad news about Covid19 until it was way too late. Trump should have called for social distancing, mass testing, contact tracing and at least limited lockdown. When it became clear that wearing masks was effective, he should have called for that. Instead he tried to wish the pandemic away. You know it and I know it.
Trump lied to you as well. Given your increased risk of Covid19 infection, my asking you to examine how you felt about Trump putting YOUR health at risk is not a specious or irrelevant argument.
You can bluster and pontificate all you want. You will do anything to avoid discussing the consequences of Trump's lies and failures, even when it puts you at risk.
"You've been put on notice. "
Remember when you snarked at me for responding to your politically oriented posts? Pot, meet kettle.
I'm sick and tired of the insinuation that no one would have died if someone other than Trump was POTUS. Really sick and tired of it.
Literally no one has said that, so you can put the idea aside and maybe not be so upset about something that didn't really happen. There are some real things that are worth being angry about.
(Like, he knew how bad the pandemic was and lied about it to you and the rest of us. It's more widespread, and you're in more danger - especially you and yours - because of how he didn't handle things when he should've.)
Can you imagine if FDR had told Americans that "the economy will roar back in no time! I expect 1933 to be a banner year!"
or
"We lost a ship or two at Pearl Harbor, but it's OK. Some people are saying the Japanese did it but I'm not so sure. I think it's the Chinese. But we'll be fine in no time!" Americans were never going to panic if Trump had told them the truth about the coronavirus. You gain strength by grasping reality and making plans to face sudden changes. Kurt, would you have preferred that your oncologist LIED TO YOU LIKE TRUMP LIED TO AMERICA?
"Kurt, this non-Hodgkins lymphoma isn't such a big deal. I don't think we really need to do anything about it..."
And now for you.
You are really off base here on this one. There is little unknown about my cancer and how to treat it. The only real unknown is what triggers it. I took no one's word about how to proceed with my treatment. I dug and dug. The only thing that was for sure was, that left untreated, I would 100% certainly be dead within 6 months. Based on that, I agreed to throw the kitchen sink at it and did. I had absolutely nothing and I repeat, NOTHING TO LOSE. Period, end of story.
CV 19 ? WTF do we know about it now that is certain ? Who has been right 100% of the time ? 90% of the time ? Not Fauci and certainly not Biden. We are still learning everyday. We still don't know how to treat it. We still don't know how to prevent its spread. Everyone has been on both sides of the mask argument. We are still at the anecdotal stage. The only thing that we know for certain about CV 19 is that there is hard work going on towards coming up with a vaccine.
Your trying to browbeat me into submission with a genuinely specious argument is contemptible. Earlier, you tried to tell me all about my personal situation and why it was the way it was and I promptly refuted everyone of your projections of my actual situation. Go back and reread my reply.
I suggest that you give up your phony concern for my intelligence and personal ability to take care of myself and make decisions, including actual personal life and death decisions in order to make your points. You really sound like a nanny state democrat that assumes no one is as smart as yourselves.
"It's going to disappear. One day â it's like a miracle â it will disappear."
Focusing Trump's lie on one person whom you know and realizing the fatal consequences if Kurt had believed such a lie really hammers home how inhumane and murderous Trump's lie was.
"It's going to disappear. One day â it's like a miracle â it will disappear."
Focusing Trump's lie on one person whom you know and realizing the fatal consequences if Kurt had believed such a lie really hammers home how inhumane and murderous Trump's lie was.
I'm sick and tired of the insinuation that no one would have died if someone other than Trump was POTUS. Really sick and tired of it.
Literally no one has said that, so you can put the idea aside and maybe not be so upset about something that didn't really happen. There are some real things that are worth being angry about.
(Like, he knew how bad the pandemic was and lied about it to you and the rest of us. It's more widespread, and you're in more danger - especially you and yours - because of how he didn't handle things when he should've.)
Can you imagine if FDR had told Americans that "the economy will roar back in no time! I expect 1933 to be a banner year!"
or
"We lost a ship or two at Pearl Harbor, but it's OK. Some people are saying the Japanese did it but I'm not so sure. I think it's the Chinese. But we'll be fine in no time!"
Americans were never going to panic if Trump had told them the truth about the coronavirus. You gain strength by grasping reality and making plans to face sudden changes.
Kurt, would you have preferred that your oncologist LIED TO YOU LIKE TRUMP LIED TO AMERICA?
"Kurt, this non-Hodgkins lymphoma isn't such a big deal. I don't think we really need to do anything about it..."
About as convincing as you know who.
+1
