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Dar Williams — Empire
Album: My Better Self
Avg rating:
6.5

Your rating:
Total ratings: 1031









Released: 2005
Length: 3:39
Plays (last 30 days): 1
Who's afraid of the sun?
Who'd question the goodness of the mighty?
We who banish the threat,
When your little ones all go nighty-nighty.

Well, there's no time for doubt right now
and less time to explain.
So get back on your horses,
kiss my ring, join our next campaign.

And the empire grows with the news that we're winning.
With more fear to conquer
and more gold thread for spinning.
Bright as the sun, shining on everyone.

Some would say that we forced our words
and we find that ingenuously churlish.
Words are just words.
Don't be so pessimistic, weak and girlish.

We like strong, happy people
who don't think there's something wrong with pride,
Work makes them free
and we spread that freedom far and wide.

And the empire grows,
the seeds of its glory,
For every five tanks,
plant a sentimental story,
till they worship the sun,
even Christ-loving ones.

And we'll kill the terror who rises
and a million of their races.
But when our people torture you
that's a few random cases.

Don't question the sun
It doesn't help anyone.

But the journalist cried out
when it was too late to stop us.
Everyone had awakened
to the dream they could enter our colossus.

And now I'm right,
here you said I'm right,
there's nothing that can harm me.
Cause the sun never sets
on my dungeons or my army.

And the empire fell
on it's own splintered axis.
And the emperor wanes
as the silver moon waxes.

And the farmers will find our coins
In their strawberry fields
while somebody somewhere
twists his ring as someone kneels.

Oh where is the sun, shining for everyone.
Oh where is the sun, shining for everyone.
Comments (174)add comment
 memoryboxer wrote:
The album cover deserves a 9.
 
Really?? Blech!
First time i heard dar gave it a 6 but it will rise
"And the empire fell on its own splintered axis"
...poetic..
came to see if this was Sarah Harmer
 mrtuba9 wrote:
I really, really like this song, but that damn album cover 
 
I think it/she is adorable.
I really, really like this song, but that damn album cover 
 pallasathene82 wrote:
I played this song the day after the US election, and it sent chills down my spine. I had forgotten how horrible it had been for so many of us under Bush. But now, a week after Trump's inauguration, it's completely fucking terrifying.
 

melodramatic much
I love a good alto and her voice...
The album cover deserves a 9.
 wgsu_1978 wrote:
A little too much reading from teenage girls' diaries this morning. Later.
 

Seems to be a lot of this going around. It is one thing to hear such silliness from a fluffy pop song, sadly even the NY Times, Washington Post, and other “journals of record” are lauding the profundity of political analysis of high school and college students not to mention making heroes of politicians barely out of their 20s.

"And the farmers will find our coins
In their strawberry fields"

That line still gets me more than a decade on. 
A little too much reading from teenage girls' diaries this morning. Later.
"...just genuinely churlish...."  Really?  This is a first.  Good vocabulary lesson.  Logophiles Anonymous.
Her voice reminds me of Susan Vega
 pallasathene82 wrote:
I played this song the day after the US election, and it sent chills down my spine. I had forgotten how horrible it had been for so many of us under Bush. But now, a week after Trump's inauguration, it's completely fucking terrifying.

 
2+ months later and I still feel ya 

Song gets a 6 from me, +2 for great  (and topical) lyrics = 8 
I played this song the day after the US election, and it sent chills down my spine. I had forgotten how horrible it had been for so many of us under Bush. But now, a week after Trump's inauguration, it's completely fucking terrifying.
 Floatinghawk wrote:
What an intriguing song. You don't find lyrics like these often, thoughtful critique of our empires
{#Crown} 

 
Yes, however that cover is something else. I think she might be competing against that guy jumping on his bed in the stained underwear?
What an intriguing song. You don't find lyrics like these often, thoughtful critique of our empires
{#Crown} 
That is one thoughtful, happening song, my friends. She's joining my list of latest heroes. 
 
Her voice reminds me of apple picking... but I truly have no idea why.
 MJdub wrote:
I had it turned down low, and when she said, "on my dungeons and my army" I thought she said "on my Downtons and my Abbey" 

 
Oh my, that is funny. Giggle.
 MJdub wrote:
I had it turned down low, and when she said, "on my dungeons and my army" I thought she said "on my Downtons and my Abbey" 

 
Mondegreens!

I had it turned down low, and when she said, "on my dungeons and my army" I thought she said "on my Downtons and my Abbey" 
 yeah sing it Dar.. {#Cheesygrin}
The play something different button is great at a time like this.
 NeuroGeek wrote:

Ease up.  Not everyone worships at the alters of those-who-cannot-sing-yet-have-had-extremely-important-cultural-and-musical-influence-on- many. 

   But most musicians/songwriters do.  That's my point.


I love these lyrics, sounds like a great party platform!  I don't suppose she really means that now does she?
Has a good beat and you can dance to it.
 lemmoth wrote:


Just a wild guess here, if you suggested to Dar Williams that you'd like to her less Neil Young, I think she's say something like, "Are you freaking nuts, Neil is a freaking genius and his music has been an inspiration to me and pretty much every mucisian I know.  Now go home and listen to "Comes a Times" and yeah, follow it up with one of my records, thanks,

 
Ease up.  Not everyone worships at the alters of those-who-cannot-sing-yet-have-had-extremely-important-cultural-and-musical-influence-on- many. 
Dar's great. I also like her work with Cry Cry Cry; some of those songs will raise the hairs on your arm.
This should be followed by Eliza Gilkyson's "Highway  9" 
 rlr511 wrote:
Please play more of Dar Williams! {#Roflol} and less Neil Young!{#Frustrated}

 

Just a wild guess here, if you suggested to Dar Williams that you'd like to her less Neil Young, I think she's say something like, "Are you freaking nuts, Neil is a freaking genius and his music has been an inspiration to me and pretty much every mucisian I know.  Now go home and listen to "Comes a Times" and yeah, follow it up with one of my records, thanks,

rolls along nicely


This sounded SO good in '06. Still does.
 bindi wrote:
funny cover shot - she apparently has a great sense of humor . . .on top of being really talented!
 
She sure seems to have a great sense of humor and her songs bear that out—especially on her Mortal City album check out "The Pointless, Yet Poignant, Crisis Of A Co-ed," "The Christians And The Pagans," "As Cool As I Am," and "Southern California Wants To Be Western New York" for some really big smiles. Dar combines poignancy and humor wonderfully. She's one of my all-time favorites!
 macbags wrote:
Have I grown old, or has paradise? Don't telll me its me.
paradise use to be sooooooo good.       Really
 
Interesting. You've posted the same line in almost every song played this morning. Maybe it is time to find another station. I'm sorry you feel that way, macbags.
Can Dar and Michael Stipe get together to make a concept album about Fox News / Rush Limbaugh?
funny cover shot - she apparently has a great sense of humor . . .on top of being really talented!
 rlr511 wrote:
Please play more of Dar Williams! {#Roflol} and less Neil Young!{#Frustrated}

 

or just less Neil Young... {#Lol}
Dar is really a very good artist. Saw her ages ago at Cat's Cradle with a tight backing band, and a very soulful, fun and sweet show. Thanks Bill and RP for the depth and breadth of your programming.
Please play more of Dar Williams! {#Roflol} and less Neil Young!{#Frustrated}

 lmic wrote:
 Kittee wrote:
Love Dar. Her songs are so thoughtful and deep.
And clever, and smart, and sassy, and cutting, and uplifting, and.. and ... and....
 
Agree — enjoyed her music for years. I think that her The Christians and the Pagans is one of the most fun and hopeful songs ever! Also, What Do You Hear In These Sounds, It Happens Every Day, After All, Traveling Again, and many others. She's great!

I like this version of Dar better than her live performances ( which are usually small backing, if any) in my neck o' the woods.
 macbags wrote:
Have I grown old, or has paradise? Don't telll me its me.
paradise use to be sooooooo good.       Really
 
It's you. RP plays a lot of modern (as in, released in recent years) music, and this track is barely 6 years old. I've been with RP for many years and the mix has continually changed during that time, and every day I listen I hear new songs. Your repeated comment is getting a bit old, too.

 macbags wrote:
Have I grown old, or has paradise? Don't telll me its me.
paradise use to be sooooooo good.       Really
 
Its You!!
  My favorite song of hers. {#Good-vibes}
SOOOO LOVELY!
Have I grown old, or has paradise? Don't telll me its me.
paradise use to be sooooooo good.       Really
Vega chops and lyrical bite.
Dat Dar song kinda sucks.

the babysitter is here by ~BlackPeregrin
©2009-2010 ~BlackPeregrin

Dar Williams at a free concert in the park.

Titled because that was the song she was singing at the time. I could tell because her face was a little scrunched up, since she was singing as a kid.


Good riddance, Bush Era! {#Sunny}
"kiss my ring"? Whatever you say, ma'am :o). With a voice like that, I'd get on my knees anytime {#Hearteyes}
Do you ever listen to a song a bunch of times, but never pay close attention, but then there is one day when you listen to the lyrics, I just had that experience with this song, and I was really surprised...
Perfect for September 11. Thanks, Bill.

 FluorideFreeMN wrote:
I have to add Dar as one the artists that looks nothing like how I'd imagine based on her voice!
 
She's a fairy in her spare time. {#Yes}

 membeth wrote:
It's odd, Dar sounds far more like Suzanne Vega on this song than she normally does.  Great song though.
 
Agreed.  I never noticed the similarity before I heard this song.  



stromdal wrote:
This song can be summed up in one word: "meh". Giving it a 4 because it doesn't hur my ears. It doesn't do ANYTHING to my ears.

I wish your fecking comments were as positive as the energy that you put into your bleeding sig, mate.

This song can be summed up in one word: "meh". Giving it a 4 because it doesn't hurt my ears. It doesn't do ANYTHING to my ears.

 HarrO wrote:
Outstanding !!
 
YES!!
Outstanding !!
 Kittee wrote:
Love Dar. Her songs are so thoughtful and deep.
And clever, and smart, and sassy, and cutting, and uplifting, and.. and ... and.... 10+++++++
 conglif wrote:
Tasty... ...and relevant.
 
Amen!  Why do I not have any of her albums?!?

Tasty... ...and relevant.
 Shimmer wrote:
 K-BILLY wrote:
I came to see if this was "Suzanne Vega"

Me too. Sure sounds like Ms. Vega, all the way down to her style of enunciation. Quite the homage, although perhaps not an intentional one.{#Smile}
 

It's odd, Dar sounds far more like Suzanne Vega on this song than she normally does.  Great song though.

Ah, the Neocon Anthem.  Spot on imho.


Looking forward to hearing this on January 20th.

 K-BILLY wrote:
I came to see if this was "Suzanne Vega"

Me too. Sure sounds like Ms. Vega, all the way down to her style of enunciation. Quite the homage, although perhaps not an intentional one.{#Smile}
hey if you want some real music there's some Sonny Landreth Dengue Fever on the LRC.

thanks Bill, I love this song!
bitbanger wrote:
Silly syllogism


More like a specious syllogism. . .


 Gednabb wrote:
No melody at all. Dull dull dull.
 

Man ... am I listening to the same song?

 laozilover wrote:
Often wrongly attributed - more likely to have come from Churchill.
 

 
SmilinJimmy wrote:
Nope. Orwell.

 
And here's what wikiquote has to say about it.

Love Dar. Her songs are so thoughtful and deep.
 crockydile wrote:
Tangential Thought: It is not possible to wage a war on terror(ism). The phrase betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of terrorism. Terrorists are humans (not demons) who have lost hope in changing their world through "normal channels." We could wage war on hopelessness...
 
The thing is, you assume that terrorist leaders are true idealists fighting for what they consider to be a good cause. I believe that might hold true for some of the faithful followers, but don't think that terrorist leaders are really that honest in their convictions.

Lest I be misunderstood, and pegged as sympathizing for any one given cause, my definition of "terrorist" includes leaders from all continents, and most political flags. Anyone who seeks to impose and ideal -or an idea - through force, war and killing (coercion through terror) is, in my books, a terrorist.
And thus I can think of quite a few that have no sustainable reason to have" lost hope" about anything.

On the other hand, perhaps (*perhaps*) some guerrilla fighters might be granted some understanding of their actions, under your general premise.

"Work makes them free", ah yes, well said Dar. "Arbeit Macht Frei" for English speakers. 
A great protest song.  We need more people like you speaking out against this great evil and injustice.


IMGoph wrote:
the empire continues to grow...bush has decided that torture must be one of the weapons in the american arsenal.... "when our people torture you, that's a few random cases" turns out to be a lie. it ain't random.
The brilliance in this song is it's use of imagery and sarcasm. Where's that 11 button?!?!?
But the journalist cried out when it was too late to stop us. Too late indeed. The New York Times is truly complicit in the messes we're in in Iraq and Afghanistan.
No melody at all. Dull dull dull.
K-BILLY wrote:
So get back on your horses, kiss my ring, join our next campaign.
Thanks for the lyrics - I just had to check that she really DID just sing "Kiss my ring" !! :shifty:
the empire continues to grow...bush has decided that torture must be one of the weapons in the american arsenal.... "when our people torture you, that's a few random cases" turns out to be a lie. it ain't random.
Never hear Dar on RP before- love her work. Let's hear more of this excellent singer/songwriter.
Brilliant, absolutely brilliant song for our tragic American age.
Insta-mute
I came to see if this was "Suzanne Vega" :curtain: but alas another artist I am not familiar with! WOW, what a poignant song for today! I'll be buying this album now...Thanks RP :clap: Love these Lyrics... Who's afraid of the sun? Who'd question the goodness of the mighty? We who banish the threat, When your little ones all go nighty-nighty. Well, there's no time for doubt right now and less time to explain. So get back on your horses, kiss my ring, join our next campaign. And the empire grows with the news that we're winning. With more fear to conquer and more gold thread for spinning. Bright as the sun, shining on everyone. Some would say that we forced our words and we find that ingenuously churlish. Words are just words. Don't be so pessimistic, weak and girlish. We like strong, happy people who don't think there's something wrong with pride, Work makes them free and we spread that freedom far and wide. And the empire grows, the seeds of its glory, For every five tanks, plant a sentimental story, till they worship the sun, even Christ-loving ones. And we'll kill the terror who rises and a million of their races. But when our people torture you that's a few random cases. Don't question the sun It doesn't help anyone. But the journalist cried out when it was too late to stop us. Everyone had awakened to the dream they could enter our colossus. And now I'm right, here you said I'm right, there's nothing that can harm me. Cause the sun never sets on my dungeons or my army. And the empire fell on it's own splintered axis. And the emperor wanes as the silver moon waxes. And the farmers will find our coins In their strawberry fields while somebody somewhere twists his ring as someone kneels. Oh where is the sun, shining for everyone. Oh where is the sun, shining for everyone.
If only Michael Franti could put together lyrics like these for his activist themes.
I have to add Dar as one the artists that looks nothing like how I'd imagine based on her voice!
This song has the distinction of being the last that Physics "90% of everything is crap" Genius rated after 2 years of blessing us with riotous curmudgeonly comments. I miss him (or her) and hope that some offended soul didn't have more than they could take and took it out on Genius.
I'm hearing REM here, big time.
physicsgenius wrote:
It is just a song after all. How complex and nuanced can you get in 100 words that have to rhyme?
Let's ask Leonard Cohen.
crockydile wrote:
Tangential Thought: It is not possible to wage a war on terror(ism). The phrase betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of terrorism. Terrorists are humans (not demons) who have lost hope in changing their world through "normal channels." We could wage war on hopelessness... :think:
Silly syllogism
Tangential Thought: It is not possible to wage a war on terror(ism). The phrase betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of terrorism. Terrorists are humans (not demons) who have lost hope in changing their world through "normal channels." We could wage war on hopelessness... :think:
dbenwen wrote:
my answer is no. I think that people like Thomas Friedman (click here) and Christopher Hitchens(click here) have some of the best insight on the war on terror and I read them avidly. I also think that Joe Biden has a worthwhile idea of how to move in a different direction other than simply abandoning the cause. I don't think that Williams is merely pointing out "extremism within our own government", I think she has decided that the United States of America has become a hegemon and an empire based on fighting Islamic fascism. That she addresses that as the threat greater than those that would certainly not allow her to sing her clever little songs...well, sad is not enough of a word to describe that. However, I predict that all the trouble in the world will go away for Williams should the Democrats take the White House in 2008. In reality, happy days could be here for Williams immediately! A Democratic majority led Congress could cut the funding for the war in Iraq, stopping the United States effort immediately. No, the Dems would rather issue silly Non Binding Resolutions of condemnation. Because cutting off funding and ending the US involvement wouldn't give them a chance to use the war for their own political ends (imagine the sainthood bestowed upon the great peacebringer who stopped Bush's war). If their opposition to the war was truly heartfelt, they would act immediately before another soldier was killed.However, they won't, and they will exploit this as they campaign for the presidency. Meanwhile, the troops in Iraq will continue to sacrifice (the only ones, really, who are doing any sacrificing)with the support of their efforts dwindling. Again, sad is not a strong enough word.
It's really not as simple as cutting funding and leaving. The dems understand that. The war was botched. Now if we leave the folks who we do NOT want in Iraq will fill the void that we leave behind. We can't pretend we can just leave and forget about it. Unfortunately.
You lost me at "nightie nightie"
laozilover wrote:
Often wrongly attributed - more likely to have come from Churchill.
Nope. Orwell.
physicsgenius wrote:
The irony is that you are quoting Orwell.
Often wrongly attributed - more likely to have come from Churchill.
Who's afraid of the son? Who would question the goodness of the mighty? We who banish the threat, When your little ones all go nighty nighty? Well there's no time for doubt right now, And less time to explain. So get back on your horses, Kiss my ring, And join our next campaign, And the Empire grows with the news that we're winning, With more fear to conquer, more gold thread for spinning, Till it's bright as the son, Shining on everyone. Some would say that we've forced our words, And we find that ingenuously churlish. Words are just words. Don't be so pessimistic, weak and girlish. We like strong, happy people Who don't think there's something wrong with pride, Work makes them free, And we spread that freedom far and wide, And the Empire grows the seeds of its glory, For every five tanks, Plant a sentimental story, Till they worship the son, Even Christ loving ones. And we'll kill the terrorizers and a million of their races, But when our people torture you, that's a few random cases. Don't question the son. It doesn't help anyone. But the journalists cried out, When it was too late to stop us. Everyone had awakened To the dream they could enter our colossus. And now I'm right, yeah, you said I'm right, There's nothing that can harm me, Cause the sun never sets on my dungeons or my army, And the Empire fell on its own splintered axis, And the Emperor wanes as the silver moon waxes, And the farmers will find old coins In their strawberry fields, While somebody somewhere twists his ring And someone kneels. Oh, where is the son Shining for everyone? Where is the son Shining for everyone?
Recently Dar Williams did a benefit performance at the Ossining, NY High School. It was just her and a guitar and a bunch of great stories, a fantastic evening. She did not do this song, which I wish she had. It was interesting to hear her work without the band, it recalled Joan Baez.
Going down on a smurf??
she is always so angry :fire: & pleasant :hearteyes: all at the same time
dbenwen wrote:
I cannot recall calling you a loopy, liberal lefty nor did I claim you were critical of the military-just as I cannot recall stating that the president was a "rough man". In fact, I don't recall directing any points at you in any way.
Dude, read back through the string beneath us. Let me condense. You quote Orwell. I suggest pleasantly enough that Dar isn't commenting on "rough men" (which I still believe). DreadPixie says something agreeable in reponse to my comment and I respond to DP with a quote from Eisenhower and finishing off with a comment suggesting that perhaps a few years in the air nat. guard doesn't make one a rough man (which was something for DreadPixie not you). You reply to my post in what comes across as a rant against liberals who want to ignore terrorism. And you wonder why I felt the need to clarify where I was coming from? If I misread your intent then I am truly sorry. But seriously, relax. Take a breath. Try to listen to the music. Nevertheless I still believe you are wrong about Dar and her intent. But that's just my opinion and you are more than welcome to disagree.
Even though the depth of analysis of very complex historical events is what one would expect in a three minute pop song, it is still a catchy tune.
Good lord - a whole page of stuff and not one word about the music.
Marr wrote:
First let me clear something up for you. I am a moderate independent. Neither all liberal nor all conservative, but a mixture of both. So don't assume that just because I'm critical of the current admin. means I'm what some people are calling a loopy liberal lefty. Like many people these days I am not critical of the military but of the way in which it is being used. Also like many people, left-right-and-center, I believe a marvelous opportunity to change things was squandered after 9/11. Do you really believe that all liberals want to ignore the threat of terrorism just because they are willing to point out the extremism within our own government?
I cannot recall calling you a loopy, liberal lefty nor did I claim you were critical of the military-just as I cannot recall stating that the president was a "rough man". In fact, I don't recall directing any points at you in any way. As far as the marvelous opportunity being squandered after 9/11 I am curious as to what you think should have been done that wasn't. Many seem to think that the predominant world view was the famous Le Monde "We are all Americans" however consider this sentiment, expressed on the pages of Le Monde shortly after the terrorist strikes:
"How we have dreamt of this event," wrote Jean Baudrillard, a prominent French intellectual. "How all the world without exception dreamt of this event, for no one can avoid dreaming of the destruction of a power that has become hegemonic. ... It is they who acted, but we who wanted the deed." (Le Monde. Nov. 2, 2001)
That was a short honeymoon. What had the US done wrong in those few weeks? To answer your closing question
Do you really believe that all liberals want to ignore the threat of terrorism just because they are willing to point out the extremism within our own government?
my answer is no. I think that people like Thomas Friedman (click here) and Christopher Hitchens(click here) have some of the best insight on the war on terror and I read them avidly. I also think that Joe Biden has a worthwhile idea of how to move in a different direction other than simply abandoning the cause. I don't think that Williams is merely pointing out "extremism within our own government", I think she has decided that the United States of America has become a hegemon and an empire based on fighting Islamic fascism. That she addresses that as the threat greater than those that would certainly not allow her to sing her clever little songs...well, sad is not enough of a word to describe that. However, I predict that all the trouble in the world will go away for Williams should the Democrats take the White House in 2008. In reality, happy days could be here for Williams immediately! A Democratic majority led Congress could cut the funding for the war in Iraq, stopping the United States effort immediately. No, the Dems would rather issue silly Non Binding Resolutions of condemnation. Because cutting off funding and ending the US involvement wouldn't give them a chance to use the war for their own political ends (imagine the sainthood bestowed upon the great peacebringer who stopped Bush's war). If their opposition to the war was truly heartfelt, they would act immediately before another soldier was killed.However, they won't, and they will exploit this as they campaign for the presidency. Meanwhile, the troops in Iraq will continue to sacrifice (the only ones, really, who are doing any sacrificing)with the support of their efforts dwindling. Again, sad is not a strong enough word.
dbenwen wrote:
I don't recall describing the president as one of the "rough men", however I think the words Williams chooses pretty succintly sum up her views-"We who banish the threat, When your little ones all go nighty-nighty." stikes me as rather dismissive of the "rough men" who "stand ready in the night". I suppose now is the time for the obligatory "BushLiedNoamChomskyisgreatGlobalizationHalliburtonNeoconZionistTheocracy" meme (see? I can straw man too!) that is trotted out to diminish the greatest threat to Western Liberalism that we face, that is,fundamentalist Islam. I find it frustrating that we of the liberal West seem so ready to ignore this threat and more readily condemn the efforts because they have been portrayed as "empire building" and hegemony. That Williams sees more of a threat from the actions taken to fight this threat shows a willing blindness.
First let me clear something up for you. I am a moderate independent. Neither all liberal nor all conservative, but a mixture of both. So don't assume that just because I'm critical of the current admin. means I'm what some people are calling a loopy liberal lefty. Like many people these days I am not critical of the military but of the way in which it is being used. Also like many people, left-right-and-center, I believe a marvelous opportunity to change things was squandered after 9/11. Do you really believe that all liberals want to ignore the threat of terrorism just because they are willing to point out the extremism within our own government?
Marr wrote:
I agree. That's one of the reasons I have high respect for Ike's presidency even though I can't agree with everything he did. So interesting to me that a Republican, former general would have uttered these prescient words.... "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex... Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together." Ike would be pretty pissed about the way things are now I do believe. And I don't think a few years in the Air Nat. Guard counts to make one a "rough man".
I don't recall describing the president as one of the "rough men", however I think the words Williams chooses pretty succintly sum up her views-"We who banish the threat, When your little ones all go nighty-nighty." stikes me as rather dismissive of the "rough men" who "stand ready in the night". I suppose now is the time for the obligatory "BushLiedNoamChomskyisgreatGlobalizationHalliburtonNeoconZionistTheocracy" meme (see? I can straw man too!) that is trotted out to diminish the greatest threat to Western Liberalism that we face, that is,fundamentalist Islam. I find it frustrating that we of the liberal West seem so ready to ignore this threat and more readily condemn the efforts because they have been portrayed as "empire building" and hegemony. That Williams sees more of a threat from the actions taken to fight this threat shows a willing blindness. I think Sam Harris (click here) put it quite well-
The same failure of liberalism is evident in Western Europe, where the dogma of multiculturalism has left a secular Europe very slow to address the looming problem of religious extremism among its immigrants. The people who speak most sensibly about the threat that Islam poses to Europe are actually fascists. To say that this does not bode well for liberalism is an understatement: It does not bode well for the future of civilization
physicsgenius wrote:
The irony is that you are quoting Orwell.
Just taking a wild stab here, but I'm guessing you reserve Orwell quotes for the demonization of Chimpy McHitler and the Halliburtoneoconzionist cabal. I think Orwell applies well to the willingness of some to ignore the biggest threat to western liberalism that we are faced with. That threat is fundemantalist Islam. Here's a read for you. (click here)
regardless of politics, this is one of the liveliest of Dar's songs-- very hummable. Love it.
dreadpixie wrote:
Marr, your comment is why I always have more respect for a President that has served our country in the armed forces. I strongly consider that when I vote.
I agree. That's one of the reasons I have high respect for Ike's presidency even though I can't agree with everything he did. So interesting to me that a Republican, former general would have uttered these prescient words.... "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex... Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together." Ike would be pretty pissed about the way things are now I do believe. And I don't think a few years in the Air Nat. Guard counts to make one a "rough man".
Marr, your comment is why I always have more respect for a President that has served our country in the armed forces. I strongly consider that when I vote.
AlienRelic wrote:
"And the Empire grows With the news that we're winning..." Winning? Guess that line is a bit out of date....
I'd argue that the "winning" is meant to be ironic. She didn't think we were winning in any real sense of the word then either. This isn't just about military winning, it's about winning the battle within us to see what kind of country we want to become.
dbenwen wrote:
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." George Orwell.
I doubt if its truly the "rough men" that Dar has problems with. It's probably the soft men, sitting on their big, soft, pale rear ends who make the decisions on where the rough men should go and who they should "visit violence" upon.
dbenwen wrote:
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." George Orwell.
The irony is that you are quoting Orwell.
"And the Empire grows With the news that we're winning..." Winning? Guess that line is a bit out of date....
mastr wrote:
Hey, if you're going to play left-wing crap like this you might as well balance it out with some Toby Keith!!
If you honestly think that the points raised in this song are either "left-wing" or "crap", you need to read John Perkins' "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man". His style leaves something to be desired - but it documents thirty years of empire-building through destabilizing regimes and manipulating geopolitics in Panama, Colombia, Iran, Chile, El Salvador, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia, among others. This stuff really isn't some pinko conspiracy-theorist's wet dream.
Love her voice.
Geecheeboy wrote:
Everybody thinks they know what is going on but we really don't know anything, on either side of the argument. We are just dogs barking at the parade.
Well that's why we should all do like Britney Spears suggested and just trust our president no matter what. Obviously he knows best. Right? Even dogs know that there's something wrong if everyone in the parade is naked. Including the emperor.
mastr wrote:
Hey, if you're going to play left-wing crap like this you might as well balance it out with some Toby Keith!!
Toby Keith. Holy shit. Next thing ya know, Bill will be playing Rosanne Cash. Oh yeah, already done that. Keep Rosanne in, keep Toby out! :roflol: This woman has a very Natalie Merchant sound to her. Which is a good thing. I give it a 7.
Nice tune, but hear! hear! for Orwell's clarity. Thanks Dbenwen.
:puke: