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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Trump Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 692, 693, 694  Next
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R_P

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Posted: Oct 20, 2019 - 12:19pm

Never-Before-Seen Trump Tax Documents Show Major Inconsistencies
kcar

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Posted: Oct 20, 2019 - 3:18am



 kurtster wrote:
 

Since you're such a  fan of Alexander Hamilton, I thought you'd love to read what one of AH's best biographers thinks would be Hamilton's response to Trump. I've included excerpts here but you should read the entire op-ed to get a full idea of how clearly Hamilton saw Trump and his kind coming.




Hamilton pushed for impeachment powers. Trump is what he had in mind.


He wanted a strong president — and a way to get rid of the demagogic ones.


by Ron Chernow

There seems little doubt, given his writings on the presidency, that Hamilton would have been aghast at Trump’s behavior and appalled by his invitation to foreign actors to meddle in our elections. As a result, he would most certainly have endorsed the current impeachment inquiry. It’s not an exaggeration to say that Trump embodies Hamilton’s worst fears about the kind of person who might someday head the government.

Among our founders, Hamilton’s views count heavily because he was the foremost proponent of a robust presidency, yet he also harbored an abiding fear that a brazen demagogue could seize the office. That worry helps to explain why he analyzed impeachment in such detail: He viewed it as a crucial instrument to curb possible abuses arising from the enlarged powers he otherwise championed.

Unlike Thomas Jefferson, with his sunny faith in the common sense of the people, Hamilton emphasized their “turbulent and changing” nature and worried about a “restless” and “daring usurper” who would excite the “jealousies and apprehensions” of his followers. He thought the country should be governed by wise and illustrious figures who would counter the fickle views of the electorate with reasoned judgments. He hoped that members of the electoral college, then expected to exercise independent judgment, would select “characters preeminent for ability and virtue.”

From the outset, Hamilton feared an unholy trinity of traits in a future president — ambition, avarice and vanity. “When avarice takes the lead in a State, it is commonly the forerunner of its fall,” he wrote as early as the Revolutionary War. He dreaded most the advent of a populist demagogue who would profess friendship for the people and pander to their prejudices while secretly betraying them. Such a false prophet would foment political frenzy and try to feed off the confusion.

...

While under siege from opponents as treasury secretary, Hamilton sketched out the type of charlatan who would most threaten the republic: “When a man unprincipled in private life<,> desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper . . . despotic in his ordinary demeanour — known to have scoffed   in private at the principles of liberty — when such a man is seen to  mount the hobby horse of  popularity — to join in the cry of danger to liberty — to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General  Government & bringing it under suspicion — to flatter and fall in   with all the non sense of the zealots of the day — It may justly be  suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may  ‘ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.’ ” Given the way Trump has  broadcast suspicions about the CIA, the FBI, the diplomatic corps,  senior civil servants and the “deep state,” Hamilton’s warning about  those who would seek to discredit the government as prelude to a  possible autocracy seems prophetic.

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Oct 19, 2019 - 11:17pm



 kurtster wrote:
 
"Let us not forget that the calls for impeachment began less than 24 hours after the polls closed. This is the theatre of the absurd. How does one impeach a POTUS before they are even sworn into office ? Yet that is how and when it all started."


??

Who was calling for Trump's impeachment at that time? And based on what grounds? Look, any crank an issue such an early opinion but that opinion is only going to carry weight if it's based on evidence and the Constitution. I don't recall serious people charging that Trump was impeachable before he took office. So back up your assertion with evidence. 

As for throwing in the Federalist Papers: do you seriously think that the Democrats are slow-walking the impeachment process right now? I have no idea what their plans are, and it's true that Nancy Pelosi declined to agree with Mitch McConnell's assessment that the House will vote on impeachment by Thanksgiving. As I understand matters, there are six committees investigating Trump. Pelosi has instructed those committees to forward any findings of impeachable conduct to the Judiciary Committee. Whether Pelosi, Schiff et al. intend to focus on the Ukraine matter or include other matters in their charges, I don't know. But I'm guessing you're not reading newspapers these days because every other day there's a new revelation about Trump, Giuliani, Ukraine etc. 

Rush may have a point that the House will draw out the impeachment inquiry in order to cast a larger shadow on the presidential election. But I don't think it's likely because

1. The major points of Trump's attempt to enlist a foreign power in his political campaign are clear, supported by evidence and publicly known. The bomb has already gone off. 

1a. Opinion polls indicate that Americans are about as willing to impeach Trump now as they were to impeach Nixon in July-August '74.

2. Americans likely don't have patience for a drawn-out process. They put up with the Mueller investigation for a helluva long time. A prolonged impeachment inquiry is going to turn people off and cast doubt on the validity of the process.



Finally: I know you and Trump like to make this personal. You two complain that this is a witch-hunt, that the Democrats want to vacate the 2016 election because they hate Trump. But if Trump is impeached and removed, Pence becomes president not Hillary Clinton. The results of the 2016 would still stand since the GOP would still hold the White House. And if this were a mere matter of personal animosity,  more House Democrats would have been willing to impeach Trump before the Ukraine matter came out. They would have based a vote on the Mueller report's insufficient findings, the emoluments issue, Trump's refusal to comply with House subpoenas on matters such as his taxes, etc. But they didn't. 

Let me clue you in: Trump earned the animosity he faces from Democrats by his recklessness, incompetence, apparent law-breaking, subservience to Putin, etc. Even Trump's former cabinet staff members are speaking out against him. Even McConnell and Lindsay Graham are pulling away from Trump. Numerous people connected to Congress think that there are enough GOP senators to remove Trump if they could cast their votes secretly.

You've completely bought into this narrative that Trump is this accomplished winner, doing great things and making your life better. I doubt you've ever considered that the economy is doing well in spite of Trump and that those immigrants you fear so much actually help our economy. 

The man is a f%$&ing crook. He's broken laws most of his adult life. He's stiffed business partners, esp. the little guy, over and over. He lies constantly. But you just buy into his crocodile tears that he's just a Great Big Victim. Wake up. 
kurtster

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Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 19, 2019 - 5:52pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 kurtster wrote:
It’s about the fact that they couldn’t beat him. It’s about the fact that he won. It’s about the fact that they haven’t been able to get rid of him yet.
 

I would like to refer you to every post you made ca. 2008 to 2016.
 
And then what ?

My posts about Obama generally dealt with his policies and actions, not him personally.  

I only posted the transcript to illustrate a comprehensive alternate take on the current impeachment proceedings that no one in this echo chamber is aware of simply because of their news sources.  It was meant to be only informational.  I do not presume that anyone here would even begin to think that it is a correct analysis.  On the other hand, I think that it is a basically accurate assessment of the way things are going.

Let us not forget that the calls for impeachment began less than 24 hours after the polls closed.  This is the theatre of the absurd.  How does one impeach a POTUS before they are even sworn into office ?  Yet that is how and when it all started.

The Federalist Papers : No. 65

...

Would it have been desirable to have composed the court for the trial of impeachments, of persons wholly distinct from the other departments of the government? There are weighty arguments, as well against, as in favor of, such a plan. To some minds it will not appear a trivial objection, that it could tend to increase the complexity of the political machine, and to add a new spring to the government, the utility of which would at best be questionable. But an objection which will not be thought by any unworthy of attention, is this: a court formed upon such a plan, would either be attended with a heavy expense, or might in practice be subject to a variety of casualties and inconveniences. It must either consist of permanent officers, stationary at the seat of government, and of course entitled to fixed and regular stipends, or of certain officers of the State governments to be called upon whenever an impeachment was actually depending. It will not be easy to imagine any third mode materially different, which could rationally be proposed. As the court, for reasons already given, ought to be numerous, the first scheme will be reprobated by every man who can compare the extent of the public wants with the means of supplying them. The second will be espoused with caution by those who will seriously consider the difficulty of collecting men dispersed over the whole Union; the injury to the innocent, from the procrastinated determination of the charges which might be brought against them; the advantage to the guilty, from the opportunities which delay would afford to intrigue and corruption; and in some cases the detriment to the State, from the prolonged inaction of men whose firm and faithful execution of their duty might have exposed them to the persecution of an intemperate or designing majority in the House of Representatives. Though this latter supposition may seem harsh, and might not be likely often to be verified, yet it ought not to be forgotten that the demon of faction will, at certain seasons, extend his sceptre over all numerous bodies of men.

But though one or the other of the substitutes which have been examined, or some other that might be devised, should be thought preferable to the plan in this respect, reported by the convention, it will not follow that the Constitution ought for this reason to be rejected. If mankind were to resolve to agree in no institution of government, until every part of it had been adjusted to the most exact standard of perfection, society would soon become a general scene of anarchy, and the world a desert. Where is the standard of perfection to be found? Who will undertake to unite the discordant opinions of a whole commuity, in the same judgment of it; and to prevail upon one conceited projector to renounce his INFALLIBLE criterion for the FALLIBLE criterion of his more CONCEITED NEIGHBOR? To answer the purpose of the adversaries of the Constitution, they ought to prove, not merely that particular provisions in it are not the best which might have been imagined, but that the plan upon the whole is bad and pernicious.

PUBLIUS.


Ohmsen

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Location: Valhalla Mists


Posted: Oct 19, 2019 - 12:14pm

President Trump’s letter to Erdogan. Yes it’s for real. The fact that you will ask yourself that question as you read it is a reflection of just how remarkable it is.
islander

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Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 19, 2019 - 10:52am



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 kurtster wrote:
It’s about the fact that they couldn’t beat him. It’s about the fact that he won. It’s about the fact that they haven’t been able to get rid of him yet.
 

I would like to refer you to every post you made ca. 2008 to 2016.
 

Elections are now perpetual. Fight the last one, while working on the next. 
Ohmsen

Ohmsen Avatar

Location: Valhalla Mists


Posted: Oct 19, 2019 - 10:40am



 Ohmsen wrote:
To me, the whole impeachment discussion is mostly none more than a smoke screen for the publice. Keep their eyes off of our corruption.
 

I repeat myself.


In reality, the whole episode is nonsense, a farce.


ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 19, 2019 - 7:23am



 kurtster wrote:
It’s about the fact that they couldn’t beat him. It’s about the fact that he won. It’s about the fact that they haven’t been able to get rid of him yet.
 

I would like to refer you to every post you made ca. 2008 to 2016.
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Oct 18, 2019 - 11:33pm



 kurtster wrote:

And while I'm at it, this will really ruin everyone's day here ... I heard this while I was eating lunch in the ole Honda Café this afternoon. Only posted the text because none of ya will go to the link and read it, because it's that evil bastid ...

....

It’s not about criminal behavior, high criminal behavior, misdemeanor criminal behavior. It isn’t about any of that. It’s about trying to overcome and reverse the 2016 election. That’s all this has ever been; it’s what it remains today. It’s not because they think Trump is an embarrassment that’s endangering the country and he’s just destroying it. It’s not about that at all. It’s about the fact that they couldn’t beat him. It’s about the fact that he won. It’s about the fact that they haven’t been able to get rid of him yet.

It’s all it is, and they need the media to be their echo chamber or vice-versa. The minute the focus of impeachment goes to the Senate, Pelosi and Schiff are just sideline cheerleaders. They are not going to give that up. Now, there are exceptions to everything. And if they found that Trump did in fact shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue last night and it was covered up — if they found something like that, outrageous — then, of course, bam! They would go full speed. But they don’t have anything impeachable.

See, that’s another thing that, when you get right down to it, they don’t have anything impeachable. All they have is what they used during Nixon. And that is a daily opportunity to try to turn Republican support in the Senate away from Trump with public shaming; never-ending, relentless media narratives that cause Republicans to cave. That’s the model that they are following.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: In fact, folks, I’ll tell you something else. I may be going out on a limb here, but I’m gonna say it anyway. If I have to walk it back, I’ll walk it back. I actually think politically the Democrats have shoved the actual impeachment of Trump aside. When Pelosi said they weren’t gonna do a vote, that’s what that meant to me. Look, when Pelosi cancels the vote and says there’s not gonna be a vote, what does that mean? She doesn’t want this to end! If they have a vote — and let’s assume that they’ve got enough votes to impeach. Okay, then that eventually — and the Turtle, Mitch McConnell, is out there saying if they do this, he wants this done by Thanksgiving.

They’re not gonna turn control of this over to the Senate, folks. They’re just not gonna let go of it. I cannot see it. That’s not the gambit. The game plan here has always been to force Trump to resign. I mean, they weren’t gonna impeach during the Mueller years. This has all been about trying to get Trump to resign. The next election’s not ’til 2020. Let’s put this in perspective. Trump wins on election night 2016. They immediately begin this coup! They start the silent coup. Trump-Russia collusion, eventually they get Mueller.

What are they gonna do? They can’t redo the election. There will not be a do-over. So they’re faced with Trump for four years unless what? They’ve always wanted to force a resignation. They weren’t in any position to do a formal impeachment during the Mueller two years or any time prior to it. And impeachment is, you know, short of illness or death, the only way to remove somebody from the presidency — and it was not even an option.

So the gambit has always been to create massive public opinion anti-Trump. It’s always been to try to get Trump voters to abandon him. It’s always been trying to give Republicans ammo, elected Republicans ammo to abandon Trump. That has been the objective of all of this. That’s why I have been blowing a gasket every day during these two years when I see certain Republicans falling for it. It’s been the trick, it’s been the objective from the get-go.

Even if Republicans hate Trump, why give the Democrats any semblance of a victory here? The election happened. Republican voters chose Trump. You understand the Democrats wanting to sell out voters, but Republicans? Why in the world would they want to sell out their own voters? There are gonna be many elections long after Trump has served his term, so it’s been extremely frustrating. It’s so obvious what this has always been.

Trump being forced out of office cannot happen unless elected Republicans join the Democrats and demand it. That’s the only way, and that has been the objective. Okay. So it failed! The coup and everything failed. Forcing Trump to resign failed. They even tried the 25th Amendment! You know, and then they were gonna wear a wire, Rosenstein was gonna wear a wire try to get the goods on Trump being unfit. They wanted the cabinet to come in!

They were doing everything they could to try to force Republicans, elected Republicans to abandon Trump. That was the only way ever they were gonna get rid of Trump before 2020. Well, we’re now one year out from 2020, and they have failed. They’ve tried everything, and now they’re continuing. Now they’re up to impeachment, and they got everybody believing that we’re on the verge of actually having articles of impeachment and then a trial and then a conviction.

But wait a minute. They’re not gonna go there! It’s never been about a trial in the Senate — unless, as I said, there is something that the whole country agrees is unacceptable. But there isn’t anything like that. There isn’t an impeachable offense here. I mean, look where we’ve come from. We’ve come from Russia collusion. (Raspberry!) Now we got a phone call, a phone call to the president of Ukraine. We’re gonna impeach for that? Come on, folks.

This has always been a grand illusion that Trump is unfit, that Trump is incompetent, that Trump is a danger, what have you. So now we’re one year out, and now all of that forcing Trump to resign, that’s now in the rearview mirror! Now it’s about 2020! They know they’re not gonna force Trump out! They know there’s not enough time for the Republicans to abandon Trump, to force him to resign before 2020. They may dream of it, but there isn’t time for that. It isn’t gonna happen.

They’re gonna have to have an election. They’re gonna have to win the next election. Now, you’ve heard some Democrats say, like Al Green, “Hey, if we don’t impeach the guy, he’s gonna be reelected!” What does that tell you? They know full well what they’re facing here. So they’re not going… Pelosi and Schiff and the rest of that gaggle are not going to lose control. They’re not gonna give up control of the political issue. The Democrats are running for the White House in 2020 on impeachment, on Trump’s unfitness, on Trump should be impeached.

But they’re not gonna pull the trigger on that. That is their 2020 campaign issue. This is why so many Democrats are saying, “Oh, what are we doing here?” They’ve stopped talking about issues that actual people vote on, and their whole all-in move here is, “Trump’s unfit, Trump’s unqualified, Trump is a mistake, Trump is…” Well, that’s been what they’ve been trying for the last three years, and what has had got ’em? Well, it gets them a news narrative every day, but it hasn’t gotten rid of Trump.

Trump’s still out there having a ball. Trump’s still out there doing his rallies. People show up at the rallies. They love the rallies. They’re having a great time. They have not turned Trump into a whimpering mental case hiding in the corners of dark rooms of the White House residence. None of that’s going on. But I’m just telling you the minute they have a vote… (Snort!) They’re not going to. Pelosi said they’re not gonna do a vote. That’s all you need to know, that they’re not serious about it. It is nothing more than…

See, when you have the media on your side or when the media is your leader? (chuckles) Why, that changes everything. Then you can do whatever you want and call it whatever you want. So they’re running their 2020 campaign to defeat Trump, and they’re calling it impeachment. They’ve named their campaign “impeachment,” but there isn’t an actual impeachment going on. “Wait a minute, Rush. Wait a minute. They’re calling witnesses.”

Yeah, they’re calling witnesses in the basement behind closed and they’re not letting anybody read the transcripts! They’re not… Folks, this is all… I keep trying overusing the word “illusion,” but having the media helps. Whatever they do, they can call it, “We are impeaching the president. We have an impeachment inquiry. We are issuing subpoenas and letters.” But no, not really, and I cannot emphasize enough that actually having a vote and presenting articles of impeachment — drawing up the cases and then the House managers assigned to go conduct the trial in the Senate — guess what?

That puts the entire Democrat reelection or election campaign in the hands of the Senate. They are not going to do that. If I’m right, six months from now, the Democrat campaign will still be focused on impeaching Trump. “Well, wait a minute, Rush. Everybody will know six months out they’re not gonna impeach Trump.” They’re gonna call it that. No matter what they do, that’s what they’re gonna call it. That word, they think, holds magic. That word, “impeachment,” they’re hoping it will scare Republicans at some point into abandoning Trump.

Now, if that happens, if they’re successful in forcing Republicans to abandon Trump, then they think that will give them the 2020 election. But that’s where the focus is now. Two years ago, the focus was on Trump resigning — and if they could make that happen now, they still will. Don’t misunderstand. But time is running out on them. And, by the way, all of this, every bit of this is gonna change when they have a nominee, and we don’t know when that’s gonna be.

But it’s probably gonna be before their convention. It’s whenever one of those Looney Tunes wins enough delegates in the primaries to be the de facto nominee. That’s when everything changes because that person then becomes the de facto head of the party, not Pelosi. And so that person’s gonna have a decision to make. “Okay. Do we want to continue to go after Trump on the basis that he’s unfit and we should impeachment him that or that or the other,” or are they gonna go back to issues like health care for all, tax increases for all, whatever they’re gonna do?

What we’re looking at here — and I know it doesn’t look like this at all. But when I look out over the landscape the last three years, I see one Democrat failure after another. I literally see them as a bunch of Wile E. Coyotes either blowing up themselves up or running off the cliff. And I say that because their objective has been forcing Donald Trump to resign, to getting him out of the White House in Washington, and they have failed.

And they may have succeeded in slowing down the implementation of his presidential agenda, but they haven’t stopped it. We’ve got an economic set of circumstances they can’t argue against — unemployment, wages up, unemployment down. They don’t have any issues to run on. Now they’re even… Now, if you didn’t know better, the Democrats are for war. They want troops deployed all over the world! (Snort!) When did that happen?

Trump’s got them taking positions simply because they hate him that are positions they’ve never taken before. It’s gotta have some of their serious supporters scratching their heads out there. “Do we really want to vote for somebody that wants to send troops all over the world here? This is not what we thought we were about.” So all I am saying is that I think this impeachment thing is actually a gigantic failure.

And I was gonna say here before even the show open that I’m going out on the limb. I really think, despite the language and despite the news narratives and coverage, I think they’ve given up on actual impeachment — meaning a vote and a trial (Snort!) — for the very simple reason they’re not going to give control of the, quote, unquote, “story.” The last thing they want is impeachment in the Senate, in the hands of the Turtle, in the hands of Mitch McConnell.

And the last thing they want is an acquittal in the Senate. And they need to find… If they’re gonna do this and get a conviction in the Senate, they need 20 Republicans to vote with the Democrats to get rid of a Republican president, whom they have failed to be able to get rid of for three years ago. Now, there may be a couple of Mitt Romneys over there, but there aren’t 20 of them.




"But they don’t have anything impeachable."

 
That's funny, because a whole bunch of people working in the federal government think that "they" do. That's why numerous people listening in to the Trump-Zelensky conversation freaked out and reported their concerns to NSC counsel John Eisenberg. Some of the same or other people talked to the whistleblower. Acting DNI Joseph Maguire thought that the whistleblower complaint was credible and significant. Testimonies by other administration officials have borne him out. The documents have supported the belief that Trump committed an impeachable offense with that conversation. There are other investigations into Trump's behavior that would support impeachment, including obstruction of justice during the Mueller investigation. 

Trump's refusal to cooperate with the House inquiry is also an impeachable offense. See http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.... especially Article 3. 

"See, that’s another thing that, when you get right down to it, they don’t have anything impeachable. All they have is what they used during Nixon. "

And yet...Nixon had to resign in order to avoid being impeached and removed from office. No one's complaining that Nixon was unjustly forced to resign. From what I remember, Nixon wasn't aware of the Watergate break-in of  the DNC headquarters until one of his aides told him that the "plumbers" were working for CREEP. Nixon's primary crime was trying to effect and help the cover-up of that association. He compounded it by refusing to comply with Congressional subpoenas. 

But Trump tried to bully and cajole a foreign power to help him in his re-election. That alone is an impeachable offense, and it's certainly more than "what they used during Nixon." And it's possible he was involved in the cover-up of that conversation before the whistleblower's complaint became widely known. Certainly the blanket refusal to comply with House subpoenas makes him impeachable as it did Nixon. 

"I actually think politically the Democrats have shoved the actual impeachment of Trump aside. When Pelosi said they weren’t gonna do a vote, that’s what that meant to me. Look, when Pelosi cancels the vote and says there’s not gonna be a vote, what does that mean? She doesn’t want this to end!
"


https://www.nytimes.com/intera...

A majority of House members now support the impeachment inquiry. And btw, some polls indicate that a slim majority of Americans support the impeachment and removal of Trump. Popular opinion for impeachment has grown rapidly; IIRC now even a majority (perhaps only a plurality) of independent voters support impeachment. 

"I really think, despite the language and despite the news narratives and coverage, I think they’ve given up on actual impeachment — meaning a vote and a trial (Snort!) — for the very simple reason they’re not going to give control of the, quote, unquote, “story.” "

Rush may have a point. The Democrats in the House may slow-walk the inquiry to maximize publicity and public awareness. That may also put pressure on Republicans in the Senate to vote for impeachment or publicly declare their positions. But someone should remind Rush that we have a form of democracy and that the impeachment process is a partly judicial one based on popular support. There has to be evidence of impeachable behavior (we certainly have that here) but there also has to be popular support for the start of the impeachment process. So yes, the Democrats will try to build popular support for impeachment and removal. They make take their sweet-ass time sending articles of impeachment to the Senate unless they think a Senate vote would be effective. WELCOME TO POLITICS, RUSH. 


kcar

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Posted: Oct 18, 2019 - 10:44pm



 kurtster wrote:
 

Obama never wanted to go into Syria. If anything, he could be criticized for not acting on his "red line" statement which indicated that the US would intervene militarily against Assad if he used chemical weapons against rebelling Syrians. 

Our involvement in the fight against Assad was minimal as was our recent military presence in the Syrian territory held by Kurds. Trump's excuse for withdrawing American troops—that he was trying to limit our involvement and withdraw from "endless wars—is inexcusable. He has exposed our Kurdish allies—allies who fought bravely on the front lines against ISIS—to slaughter. Trump has also allowed many former ISIS fighters to escape internment camps and re-group. So Trump's idea that ISIS is finished, that we don't need to be in that area anymore is wrong

But don't take my word for it. Watch this video made by a captain in our National Guard who worked alongside Kurds. He says in the video that "our complete withdrawal from Syria is unstrategic, immoral, and ultimately un-American. Don't get me wrong: I agree with president Trump's statement that we should end endless wars. I don't think we should have been in Iraq. I certainly don't think we should be in Yemen. Overall it is good for us to get out of the Middle East. But we do that by building and maintaining alliances, by creating a peace process that maintains stability in the region and supporting our allies. That's how we work ourselves out of our jobs...Now the same army that stopped the Nazis is being sent home to clear the way for an ethnic cleansing of the Kurds. 

 You can find the video here: I Joined the Army to Prevent Genocide, Not to Pave the Way for It  . WARNING: the  video contains graphic scenes of violence, wounding and death. 


You wrote "So this exit was not a spur of the moment thing, contrary to the narrative of all the establishment war hawks and legacy media." True. Trump tried to announce an earlier complete withdrawal but was dissuaded by his advisors because such a unilateral action would cause chaos, genocide and the resurgence of ISIS in the area. But those advisors are gone now and Trump just screwed our allies and in the long run ourselves because we will surely have to go back to help re-stabilize the area and fight ISIS again. 

If you want to applaud Trump as usual, clap away. But the people who actually WTF is going on the world think is FUBAR nuts. Even Lindsay Graham and Mitch McConnell have condemned Trump's decision. 


kurtster

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Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 18, 2019 - 7:12pm

 westslope wrote:

Incidentally, Syria does not produce very much oil but I can readily imagine how these utterances would be popular with his base who place much value on the cheap energy entitlement.  
 
I was on Obama's case and also McCain's case at the same time when they / we first wanted to go into Syria, to take out Assad and further fuck up the Middle East ala Libya and Iraq.  Another bullshit regime change war.  And that is essentially what I called it back then.  Obama's "no boots on the ground" policy is how we got our asses into Syria in the first place, oh and that imaginary "Red Line".

Contrary to what every one asserts and believes, Trump is the most anti war POTUS in my lifetime.  And I've been around on this planet since while Truman was POTUS.  Trump ran on limiting and ending wars, bringing our troops home.  Seems that he and we, his supporters are the only ones fed up with all this endless war bullshit.  Our exit was never going to go well and if it was announced, it would be even worse than it presently is now.  If you heard any of Mattis at the Al Smith dealio the other night he said that the reason he left the administration was because Trump wanted to get out of Syria back then and he could not support it.  So this exit was not a spur of the moment thing, contrary to the narrative of all the establishment war hawks and legacy media.  And echoed below.

Syria has an oil pipeline terminus that ISIS was using to sell Iraqi oil in order to finance their caliphate.  I believe that is the oil that Trump is referring to.  Whatever, everyone wants Trump to stay and get the USA involved even deeper into the Middle East waste more American lives and money and get in between the Shia and the Sunni.  Are y'all nucking futz or what ? 

And while I'm at it, this will really ruin everyone's day here ...       I heard this while I was eating lunch in the ole Honda Café this afternoon.  Only posted the text because none of ya will go to the link and read it, because it's that evil bastid ...

....

It’s not about criminal behavior, high criminal behavior, misdemeanor criminal behavior. It isn’t about any of that. It’s about trying to overcome and reverse the 2016 election. That’s all this has ever been; it’s what it remains today. It’s not because they think Trump is an embarrassment that’s endangering the country and he’s just destroying it. It’s not about that at all. It’s about the fact that they couldn’t beat him. It’s about the fact that he won. It’s about the fact that they haven’t been able to get rid of him yet.

It’s all it is, and they need the media to be their echo chamber or vice-versa. The minute the focus of impeachment goes to the Senate, Pelosi and Schiff are just sideline cheerleaders. They are not going to give that up. Now, there are exceptions to everything. And if they found that Trump did in fact shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue last night and it was covered up — if they found something like that, outrageous — then, of course, bam! They would go full speed. But they don’t have anything impeachable.

See, that’s another thing that, when you get right down to it, they don’t have anything impeachable. All they have is what they used during Nixon. And that is a daily opportunity to try to turn Republican support in the Senate away from Trump with public shaming; never-ending, relentless media narratives that cause Republicans to cave. That’s the model that they are following.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: In fact, folks, I’ll tell you something else. I may be going out on a limb here, but I’m gonna say it anyway. If I have to walk it back, I’ll walk it back. I actually think politically the Democrats have shoved the actual impeachment of Trump aside. When Pelosi said they weren’t gonna do a vote, that’s what that meant to me. Look, when Pelosi cancels the vote and says there’s not gonna be a vote, what does that mean? She doesn’t want this to end! If they have a vote — and let’s assume that they’ve got enough votes to impeach. Okay, then that eventually — and the Turtle, Mitch McConnell, is out there saying if they do this, he wants this done by Thanksgiving.

They’re not gonna turn control of this over to the Senate, folks. They’re just not gonna let go of it. I cannot see it. That’s not the gambit. The game plan here has always been to force Trump to resign. I mean, they weren’t gonna impeach during the Mueller years. This has all been about trying to get Trump to resign. The next election’s not ’til 2020. Let’s put this in perspective. Trump wins on election night 2016. They immediately begin this coup! They start the silent coup. Trump-Russia collusion, eventually they get Mueller.

What are they gonna do? They can’t redo the election. There will not be a do-over. So they’re faced with Trump for four years unless what? They’ve always wanted to force a resignation. They weren’t in any position to do a formal impeachment during the Mueller two years or any time prior to it. And impeachment is, you know, short of illness or death, the only way to remove somebody from the presidency — and it was not even an option.

So the gambit has always been to create massive public opinion anti-Trump. It’s always been to try to get Trump voters to abandon him. It’s always been trying to give Republicans ammo, elected Republicans ammo to abandon Trump. That has been the objective of all of this. That’s why I have been blowing a gasket every day during these two years when I see certain Republicans falling for it. It’s been the trick, it’s been the objective from the get-go.

Even if Republicans hate Trump, why give the Democrats any semblance of a victory here? The election happened. Republican voters chose Trump. You understand the Democrats wanting to sell out voters, but Republicans? Why in the world would they want to sell out their own voters? There are gonna be many elections long after Trump has served his term, so it’s been extremely frustrating. It’s so obvious what this has always been.

Trump being forced out of office cannot happen unless elected Republicans join the Democrats and demand it. That’s the only way, and that has been the objective. Okay. So it failed! The coup and everything failed. Forcing Trump to resign failed. They even tried the 25th Amendment! You know, and then they were gonna wear a wire, Rosenstein was gonna wear a wire try to get the goods on Trump being unfit. They wanted the cabinet to come in!

They were doing everything they could to try to force Republicans, elected Republicans to abandon Trump. That was the only way ever they were gonna get rid of Trump before 2020. Well, we’re now one year out from 2020, and they have failed. They’ve tried everything, and now they’re continuing. Now they’re up to impeachment, and they got everybody believing that we’re on the verge of actually having articles of impeachment and then a trial and then a conviction.

But wait a minute. They’re not gonna go there! It’s never been about a trial in the Senate — unless, as I said, there is something that the whole country agrees is unacceptable. But there isn’t anything like that. There isn’t an impeachable offense here. I mean, look where we’ve come from. We’ve come from Russia collusion. (Raspberry!) Now we got a phone call, a phone call to the president of Ukraine. We’re gonna impeach for that? Come on, folks.

This has always been a grand illusion that Trump is unfit, that Trump is incompetent, that Trump is a danger, what have you. So now we’re one year out, and now all of that forcing Trump to resign, that’s now in the rearview mirror! Now it’s about 2020! They know they’re not gonna force Trump out! They know there’s not enough time for the Republicans to abandon Trump, to force him to resign before 2020. They may dream of it, but there isn’t time for that. It isn’t gonna happen.

They’re gonna have to have an election. They’re gonna have to win the next election. Now, you’ve heard some Democrats say, like Al Green, “Hey, if we don’t impeach the guy, he’s gonna be reelected!” What does that tell you? They know full well what they’re facing here. So they’re not going… Pelosi and Schiff and the rest of that gaggle are not going to lose control. They’re not gonna give up control of the political issue. The Democrats are running for the White House in 2020 on impeachment, on Trump’s unfitness, on Trump should be impeached.

But they’re not gonna pull the trigger on that. That is their 2020 campaign issue. This is why so many Democrats are saying, “Oh, what are we doing here?” They’ve stopped talking about issues that actual people vote on, and their whole all-in move here is, “Trump’s unfit, Trump’s unqualified, Trump is a mistake, Trump is…” Well, that’s been what they’ve been trying for the last three years, and what has had got ’em? Well, it gets them a news narrative every day, but it hasn’t gotten rid of Trump.

Trump’s still out there having a ball. Trump’s still out there doing his rallies. People show up at the rallies. They love the rallies. They’re having a great time. They have not turned Trump into a whimpering mental case hiding in the corners of dark rooms of the White House residence. None of that’s going on. But I’m just telling you the minute they have a vote… (Snort!) They’re not going to. Pelosi said they’re not gonna do a vote. That’s all you need to know, that they’re not serious about it. It is nothing more than…

See, when you have the media on your side or when the media is your leader? (chuckles) Why, that changes everything. Then you can do whatever you want and call it whatever you want. So they’re running their 2020 campaign to defeat Trump, and they’re calling it impeachment. They’ve named their campaign “impeachment,” but there isn’t an actual impeachment going on. “Wait a minute, Rush. Wait a minute. They’re calling witnesses.”

Yeah, they’re calling witnesses in the basement behind closed and they’re not letting anybody read the transcripts! They’re not… Folks, this is all… I keep trying overusing the word “illusion,” but having the media helps. Whatever they do, they can call it, “We are impeaching the president. We have an impeachment inquiry. We are issuing subpoenas and letters.” But no, not really, and I cannot emphasize enough that actually having a vote and presenting articles of impeachment — drawing up the cases and then the House managers assigned to go conduct the trial in the Senate — guess what?

That puts the entire Democrat reelection or election campaign in the hands of the Senate. They are not going to do that. If I’m right, six months from now, the Democrat campaign will still be focused on impeaching Trump. “Well, wait a minute, Rush. Everybody will know six months out they’re not gonna impeach Trump.” They’re gonna call it that. No matter what they do, that’s what they’re gonna call it. That word, they think, holds magic. That word, “impeachment,” they’re hoping it will scare Republicans at some point into abandoning Trump.

Now, if that happens, if they’re successful in forcing Republicans to abandon Trump, then they think that will give them the 2020 election. But that’s where the focus is now. Two years ago, the focus was on Trump resigning — and if they could make that happen now, they still will. Don’t misunderstand. But time is running out on them. And, by the way, all of this, every bit of this is gonna change when they have a nominee, and we don’t know when that’s gonna be.

But it’s probably gonna be before their convention. It’s whenever one of those Looney Tunes wins enough delegates in the primaries to be the de facto nominee. That’s when everything changes because that person then becomes the de facto head of the party, not Pelosi. And so that person’s gonna have a decision to make. “Okay. Do we want to continue to go after Trump on the basis that he’s unfit and we should impeachment him that or that or the other,” or are they gonna go back to issues like health care for all, tax increases for all, whatever they’re gonna do?

What we’re looking at here — and I know it doesn’t look like this at all. But when I look out over the landscape the last three years, I see one Democrat failure after another. I literally see them as a bunch of Wile E. Coyotes either blowing up themselves up or running off the cliff. And I say that because their objective has been forcing Donald Trump to resign, to getting him out of the White House in Washington, and they have failed.

And they may have succeeded in slowing down the implementation of his presidential agenda, but they haven’t stopped it. We’ve got an economic set of circumstances they can’t argue against — unemployment, wages up, unemployment down. They don’t have any issues to run on. Now they’re even… Now, if you didn’t know better, the Democrats are for war. They want troops deployed all over the world! (Snort!) When did that happen?

Trump’s got them taking positions simply because they hate him that are positions they’ve never taken before. It’s gotta have some of their serious supporters scratching their heads out there. “Do we really want to vote for somebody that wants to send troops all over the world here? This is not what we thought we were about.” So all I am saying is that I think this impeachment thing is actually a gigantic failure.

And I was gonna say here before even the show open that I’m going out on the limb. I really think, despite the language and despite the news narratives and coverage, I think they’ve given up on actual impeachment — meaning a vote and a trial (Snort!) — for the very simple reason they’re not going to give control of the, quote, unquote, “story.” The last thing they want is impeachment in the Senate, in the hands of the Turtle, in the hands of Mitch McConnell.

And the last thing they want is an acquittal in the Senate. And they need to find… If they’re gonna do this and get a conviction in the Senate, they need 20 Republicans to vote with the Democrats to get rid of a Republican president, whom they have failed to be able to get rid of for three years ago. Now, there may be a couple of Mitt Romneys over there, but there aren’t 20 of them.



westslope

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Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 18, 2019 - 2:04pm

Thanks  Proclivities.

Incidentally, Syria does not produce very much oil but I can readily imagine how these utterances would be popular with his base who place much value on the cheap energy entitlement.  
Proclivities

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Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 18, 2019 - 1:32pm



 westslope wrote:


 R_P wrote:
"We've taken control of the oil in the Middle East, the oil that we're talking about, the oil that everybody was worried about. We have — the US has control of that."
 
I see the Twitter storm but could not find Trump's original tweet.

 
It's not from his Twitter; after his teleconference with the NASA administrator and the two female astronauts who effected repairs during their their space-walk, that was part of his long, rambling response to a reporter's question.  There may be some related Tweets in his feed though.  There was this Tweet from this morning:

"...There is good will on both sides & a really good chance for success. The U.S. has secured the Oil, & the ISIS Fighters are double secured by Kurds & Turkey...."
westslope

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Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 18, 2019 - 1:13pm



 R_P wrote:
"We've taken control of the oil in the Middle East, the oil that we're talking about, the oil that everybody was worried about. We have — the US has control of that."
 
I see the Twitter storm but could not find Trump's original tweet.

hayduke2

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Location: Southampton, NY
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 18, 2019 - 12:35pm

https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-trumps-washington/forget-trumps-meltdownfollow-the-testimony?source=EDT_NYR_EDIT_NEWSLETTER_0_image
Image result for dopey trump

"
NO SQUID DO BRO!"
Proclivities

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Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 18, 2019 - 12:27pm



 R_P wrote:
"We've taken control of the oil in the Middle East, the oil that we're talking about, the oil that everybody was worried about. We have — the US has control of that."
 
I guess he went off script again - more disjointed, contradictory gibberish:

"...I just spoke to President Erdoğan of Turkey. We’re doing very, very well with Turkey. There’s a ceasefire, or a pause, or whatever you want to call it. There was some sniper fire this morning. There was mortar fire this morning that was eliminated quickly. And they’re back to the full pause.
We have ISIS totally under guard. Turkey is also guarding, separately. They’re watching over everything. So you have the Kurds, who we’re dealing with and are very happy about the way things are going, I must say. The Kurds.
And you also have the Turks watching, just secondarily watching. So we have ISIS under control..."

(Who is doing the 'primary' watching of ISIS - which he told us was '100% defeated'.)

"...We’ve taken control of the oil in the Middle East, the oil that we’re talking about; the oil that everybody was worried about. We have — the U.S. has control of that. And there are no shots being fired. And a lot of people are doing a lot of things.
This is a deal that should have been made 15 years ago, 10 years ago, over the last number of years, under the Obama administration.
The real number is over a million people were killed. We have lost no — not a drop of blood since we’ve started what I’ve started. And it was — so far, it’s working out..."

R_P

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Posted: Oct 18, 2019 - 12:07pm

"We've taken control of the oil in the Middle East, the oil that we're talking about, the oil that everybody was worried about. We have — the US has control of that."
Proclivities

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Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 17, 2019 - 12:50pm



 R_P wrote:
 rgio wrote:
People can intellectually only focus on one thing at a time... (...)
 
Like making more swampy money...
 

R_P

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Posted: Oct 17, 2019 - 11:35am

 rgio wrote:
People can intellectually only focus on one thing at a time... (...)
 
Like making more swampy money...
rgio

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Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 17, 2019 - 11:12am



 R_P wrote:
 
People can intellectually only focus on one thing at a time....so why not throw as much at the wall as possible.  Stable genius at work.....move along. 

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