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westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: May 26, 2023 - 2:30am

Because we were discussing Disney earlier:


Column by Eric Poole: We need a little more vacation spirit in our everyday world

Do you know what’s so great about Walt Disney World?

It’s not the rides, the costumed characters or even the Disney myth-making. It’s the sense of common purpose — that purpose being the pursuit of a good time.

At Disney, everyone sees the best in everyone else. Because everyone is just trying to have a good time and, in most cases, making happy family memories, there is an abundance of empathy.

Everyone at Disney sees themselves in everyone else.

.......

Which got me to thinking that the next president of the USA, Governor Ron DeSantis, could be seen as standing in the way of the "pursuit of a good time" and "an abundance of empathy".  


ColdMiser

ColdMiser Avatar

Location: On the Trail
Gender: Male


Posted: May 25, 2023 - 7:55am

 rgio wrote:

I'm already exhausted for 2024. 

You can say that again! It won't be long before candidates announce they are running IMMEDIATELY after each election is over.  It will be never ending. 

Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: May 23, 2023 - 9:53pm

 kcar wrote:
 Jesus, how did anyone get fooled by that alcoholic clown? 

"Hey, I don't drink alcohol. I only drink Trump Ice Natural Spring Water. When you're famous they let you just grab it.
It's water like no one's ever seen before, but discontinued in 2010 which is UNFAIR. Everyone is saying it. "  

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: May 23, 2023 - 3:35pm

 Steely_D wrote:

I think it's the very good results of Brexit that make them keep going down this path.




Nigel Farage        x 10^6 . Jesus, how did anyone get fooled by that alcoholic clown? 
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: May 23, 2023 - 3:20pm

 rgio wrote:
 It's pure insanity... but that hasn't stopped them so far.

I think it's the very good results of Brexit that make them keep going down this path.

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: May 23, 2023 - 3:18pm

 rgio wrote:

This is the scary bit about the debt ceiling discussion.  The design isn't all bad... agree how you're going to pay your bills so things don't go unchecked... but it's a bit like complaining about the price of dinner after you ordered off the menu (with prices) and finished your meal.  You have to pay the tab.

There is a growing sense that the Q-inspired idiots who now have McCarthy by the short ones would like to see the US default.   In their view, unemployment going up 5 points overnight,  the stock market falling 20% in a day,  inflation spiking hard, and the US losing its hold on the dollar as the currency of choice (like for oil) would all bode well for them in getting elected.  It's pure insanity... but that hasn't stopped them so far.



For those who still want to burn the house down/derail the federal government/put DJT or MTG in charge, I think you have to prove to them that the resulting chaos will cost them dearly. 

If people completely upset the current power and governing structure of the US—eg defaulting on the federal debt, overturning a presidential election, turning the  US towards one-man rule—that creates chaos and power vacuums. Powerful people and groups will step in to fill that power vacuum and they won't be coming from the folks who currently feel politically or economically marginalized. Those folks will wind up with less power. Sociopaths and plutocrats like Trump, Musk, Big Oil, etc. will monetize their new power and squeeze people harder. 

Why people think/want a "Big Daddy" type like Trump to sort their lives out and make them feel better is beyond me. If you're feeling powerless, you're not going to get power back or more power by letting someone else get it for you. They'll just take that power for themselves. 
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: May 23, 2023 - 2:29pm

 kcar wrote:
...
And if Trump can't run or loses in the primary, someone like Trump will rise to take his place. That's because a lot of Republican voters want to burn the house down and frankly are willing to toss aside a constitutional republic government to do that. 

This is the scary bit about the debt ceiling discussion.  The design isn't all bad... agree how you're going to pay your bills so things don't go unchecked... but it's a bit like complaining about the price of dinner after you ordered off the menu (with prices) and finished your meal.  You have to pay the tab.

There is a growing sense that the Q-inspired idiots who now have McCarthy by the short ones would like to see the US default.   In their view, unemployment going up 5 points overnight,  the stock market falling 20% in a day,  inflation spiking hard, and the US losing its hold on the dollar as the currency of choice (like for oil) would all bode well for them in getting elected.  It's pure insanity... but that hasn't stopped them so far.

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: May 23, 2023 - 1:32pm

 westslope wrote:

Just curious.  Do WaPo and NYT report the nitty gritty yelling, intimidation, profanity-laced threats and so on?    I could be missing this given what I typically look for US elite media.

Agree with the last part.   Would add that it is a depressing notion that you still consider Trump a serious candidate.  Not saying that you are wrong.   Just with Mr. Ultra-toxicity gone.



Both papers will refer to profanity as something like "words that cannot be printed in this paper" or "sh—". No, they don't include the actual profane words. Yes, they do report on the anger, intimidation, etc. that show up in public demonstrations. They're not USA Today. They both made their reputations by reporting on hard and dangerous truths. At times they will protect the establishment, but both papers have op-ed writers that offer a wide spectrum of reasonable and informed opinion. Marc Thiessen at WaPo comes to mind although he strikes me as a pro-Trump propaganda hack. 

As rgio noted, Trump's still a serious candidate only because a  lot of people will vote for him even if he's under indictment or investigation. They see his legal troubles as unjustified attempts to unfairly block him from becoming president again. 

And if Trump can't run or loses in the primary, someone like Trump will rise to take his place. That's because a lot of Republican voters want to burn the house down and frankly are willing to toss aside a constitutional republic government to do that. 
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: May 23, 2023 - 11:40am

 westslope wrote:

Just curious.  Do WaPo and NYT report the nitty gritty yelling, intimidation, profanity-laced threats and so on?    I could be missing this given what I typically look for US elite media.

Agree with the last part.   Would add that it is a depressing notion that you still consider Trump a serious candidate.  Not saying that you are wrong.   Just with Mr. Ultra-toxicity gone.


Serious is a loaded description.  He's the current leader in Republican polling, so you have to take him seriously.  Can he win the Republican primaries... sure.  The question is can he win the general election?   I don't think he can.  His BS only plays for the true believers, and there aren't enough of them to carry the swing states.  Obviously, it's a long way to next November, but I just can't see him winning the general election.

What's amazing about Trump, is that there is so much news that would have derailed anyone 20 years ago, that we don't even take note or comment on it.  Rudy selling pardons for $2M per (with $1M going to Donnie), Trump being sued again by E. Jean Carroll for telling lies about her again (the day after he was assessed $5M for doing it), the justice department has subpoenaed records from Trump's companies in dealings in 7 countries as part of the documents investigation,   and he's "appearing" in court today (via video) in NY against his will so that the judge can tell him directly what he can and can't say with regard to the case in NY (not the rape case, the campaign funds/Stormy Daniels one). It's gotta be exhausting to be his lawyer (for however long that lasts). 

What I think is really interesting is the DeSantis decision to out-Trump Trump...and go as hard-line right was possible.  Maybe he thinks if he can get past Trump in the primaries, he can swing moderate in the run-up and pull voters looking for someone new against Biden. 

Apparently, Trump said this morning that he alone is responsible for the end of abortion in the US.  60% of people in the country oppose the SCOTUS reversal...and he wants credit.  We really are living in bizarro world.

I'm already exhausted for 2024. 
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: May 23, 2023 - 11:04am

 R_P wrote:


How do you know these fine defenders of freedom are members of the card-carrying Republicans? 

The Twitter comments are hilarious BTW. 

westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: May 23, 2023 - 11:01am

 kcar wrote:


I read WaPo and NYT every day. Both papers cover and report on areas of strong Trump support like The Villages. 

.......
My guess is that the level of inflation or economic activity will largely determine whether Trump wins or loses. Voters have already made their political choices based on their vision of America. If the economy isn't doing well, or groups like black men don't feel recognized/helped by Biden, Trump will have a shot. 


Just curious.  Do WaPo and NYT report the nitty gritty yelling, intimidation, profanity-laced threats and so on?    I could be missing this given what I typically look for US elite media.

Agree with the last part.   Would add that it is a depressing notion that you still consider Trump a serious candidate.  Not saying that you are wrong.   Just with Mr. Ultra-toxicity gone.

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: May 23, 2023 - 8:32am

 islander wrote:


What's up with the 'Best Buy' uniform situation? I've seen it on a couple of their other gatherings now too. Is that really their thing?


Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: May 22, 2023 - 5:25pm

 islander wrote:
What's up with the 'Best Buy' uniform situation? I've seen it on a couple of their other gatherings now too. Is that really their thing?

Beats me. Might be a rallying point thing, where they figure they can find each other in a crowd if they get separated.

Or maybe their mothers dress them.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: May 22, 2023 - 3:54pm

 Lazy8 wrote:

Same group (or similar—they were wearing masks and some changed shirts but they carried the same signs) was at the Bozeman Pride event Saturday. I was at the stage area registering people to vote.

When they showed up at the street to (try to) disrupt the drag show the DJ turned up the music and the crowd gathered at the crosswalk to block their path by dancing.

It was...beautiful.

They moved along looking kind of disappointed. Apparently they ran into somebody on the sidewalk and pepper sprayed him, but that's the worst trouble we had. Livingston cops say they were mostly from out of town.


What's up with the 'Best Buy' uniform situation? I've seen it on a couple of their other gatherings now too. Is that really their thing?
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: May 22, 2023 - 12:30pm

 R_P wrote:

Same group (or similar—they were wearing masks and some changed shirts but they carried the same signs) was at the Bozeman Pride event Saturday. I was at the stage area registering people to vote.

When they showed up at the street to (try to) disrupt the drag show the DJ turned up the music and the crowd gathered at the crosswalk to block their path by dancing.

It was...beautiful.

They moved along looking kind of disappointed. Apparently they ran into somebody on the sidewalk and pepper sprayed him, but that's the worst trouble we had. Livingston cops say they were mostly from out of town.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: May 22, 2023 - 10:34am

 R_P wrote:



 but *now* they will wear a mask.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: May 22, 2023 - 10:33am


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: May 22, 2023 - 10:17am

 rgio wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
You probably agree with rgio that I, along with all the others that support Trump are racist and wear hoods instead of hats ...

Wow... found your hot button on this one.Just to be clear... you responded to the comment below with your torches (on the Biden thread...  you're really pissed off, aren't you?)   The conversation was about immigration, and your use of CIS data as facts, which Scott pointed out was from a white nationalist's POV.  R_P threw a bit of nuance on it, making a reference to Charlottesville at the expense of Trump, who said that about the White Supremacists (at least, that's how I read it).  
R_P wrote:
ScottFromWyoming wrote:
The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS)is
an anti-immigration think tank and a SPLC designated hate group. It favors far lower immigration numbers, and produces analyses to further those views. The CIS was founded by historian Otis L. Graham and eugenicist and white nationalist John Tanton. —Wikipedia
Very fine people who like tiki torches.

Trump supports racists. 
If you support Trump, for tax cuts or smaller government or drilling rights or anything... you support racism.  If you support DeSantis, you support racism.   You can't ignore it and say "I'm not racist".  You have to actively reject it when you see it...and the "very fine people on both sides" is an example of something that needs to be called out and rejected.
 
Kurt, I'm sure you don't see yourself as racist, and take the comment as some sort of personal attack from someone who knows almost nothing about you.  I'll take you at your word as not being a racist, but supporting racists makes you complicit.  
 
Well you just doubled down on everything.  

The information I cited using CIS has not been refuted and stands.  So shoot the messenger and ignore the message.

I also stated that the SPLC is a hate group itself.  So you have a hate group calling another group a hate group.  That is your justification.  Your only justification.

 the "very fine people on both sides" is an example of something that needs to be called out and rejected.
 


That remark stands up when in it's entire context ... that despite bad actors on both sides , there are very fine people on both sides.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs — and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left — you just called them the left — that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the —"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides — I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest —"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves — and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down — excuse me, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him?"

Reporter: "I do love Thomas Jefferson."

Trump: "Okay, good. Are we going to take down the statue? Because he was a major slave owner. Now, are we going to take down his statue?

"So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people — and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists — because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

"Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."

Reporter: "Sir, I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? I just don’t understand what you were saying."

Trump: "No, no. There were people in that rally — and I looked the night before — if you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day it looked like they had some rough, bad people — neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them.

"But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest, and very legally protest — because, I don’t know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit. So I only tell you this: There are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country — a horrible moment.  But there are two sides to the country.

And Trump was right about the statues.  Even some of Lincoln's statues have since been taken down.
.
Name the racists that Trump supports.  Let's have your list.

Your broad brush on Trump allows me to do the same with you on Biden.

Biden has a long history of being a racist and a segregationist.  Biden's current policies reinforce discrimination and segregation. By both race and sexual orientation.  You support discrimination and segregation.  So that makes you racist and sexist as well.  You support wide open borders with your support of Biden, speaking of immigration.  You see no crisis or security threats regarding our open borders.  You have no problems with Biden ignoring laws so he can move the illegals in quicker.  The more the merrier.  Illegals have a higher priority than citizens, right ?
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: May 22, 2023 - 9:23am

 kurtster wrote:
You probably agree with rgio that I, along with all the others that support Trump are racist and wear hoods instead of hats ...

Wow... found your hot button on this one.

Just to be clear... you responded to the comment below with your torches (on the Biden thread...  you're really pissed off, aren't you?)   The conversation was about immigration, and your use of CIS data as facts, which Scott pointed out was from a white nationalist's POV.  R_P threw a bit of nuance on it, making a reference to Charlottesville at the expense of Trump, who said that about the White Supremacists (at least, that's how I read it).  
R_P wrote:
ScottFromWyoming wrote:
The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS)is
an anti-immigration think tank and a SPLC designated hate group. It favors far lower immigration numbers, and produces analyses to further those views. The CIS was founded by historian Otis L. Graham and eugenicist and white nationalist John Tanton. —Wikipedia
Very fine people who like tiki torches.

Trump supports racists. 

If you support Trump, for tax cuts or smaller government or drilling rights or anything... you support racism.  If you support DeSantis, you support racism.   You can't ignore it and say "I'm not racist".  You have to actively reject it when you see it...and the "very fine people on both sides" is an example of something that needs to be called out and rejected.
 
Kurt, I'm sure you don't see yourself as racist, and take the comment as some sort of personal attack from someone who knows almost nothing about you.  I'll take you at your word as not being a racist, but supporting racists makes you complicit.  
Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: May 22, 2023 - 8:55am

 rgio wrote:

Agree with the gerrymandering.   The elected may represent a smaller percentage of the population, but the politics they are controlling are moving Right.  North Carolina overriding the Governor's veto of a 12-week abortion ban is the type of reality that is moving life for residents of the state further right than before.  Majority be damned.

Yes, the gerrymandering has allowing the General Assembly to hold a Republican super majority (and they don't even deny it), even though registered voters in the state are about 50/50%  D & R.
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